The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Revamp Man]

Okay it seems we are back to talking about whatever again.
Let's salvage the discussion cause 16 days from now, it will be showtime.

What are our options truly?
Considering the Algarian Stormrider (the only actual datamined thing that we know is real and not just made up by posters or just wishful thinking) Kaz Algar being part of it is as close to 100% as we can get.

But where IS Kaz Algar?

There seem to be two camps.

The ingame lorebook camp places it on Avaloren cause this would cut down the unknown mysterious lands by quite a lot. Avaloren is said to have advanced technology and is hostile to titan forces. Dragons who go there do not come back, but the Nightsquall did. This definitely feels like a plotline that should be investigated in an expansion or patch.

The other camp, most famously represented by Towelee and Bellular place Kaz Algar under Silithus and Un'Goro. A consolidation of weird hiden places posist that Kaz Algar is the same as the hole where a world tree was suppoosed to be but had to be pulled off to escape Old God corruption. Well not only is Silithus the seat of power and prison of C'Thun, but quite close to Un'Goro, where a corrupted world tree was shown in the Emerald Nightmare version.
As an added bonus, 10.2 features the enigmatic Loa of Change named after the Egyptian Moon God. Southern Kalimdor is the closest we have for Egypt in the game.

Speaking of Moon deities, the only other thing we all seem to agree on is that for better or worse, Elune is likely going to show up either in 10.2, 11.0 or both.

Elune is gonna be at some point in 10.2
I don't think the aspects can get power without forcing the celestial event

Also I swear if Avaloren is a dwarvish wakanda I'm gonna play a character named Bucky

[Chickat]

Also quick reminder that this is the first expansion with the massively increased team fully up to speed during core development and mostly developed outside of Covid. I expect it will be larger than Dragonflight either way. Revamp or not.

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i mean, it's flying lol it's not something you're going to do for hours. yeah it's a fun minigame, but not much more



1) once and done and only doable in certain periods of the year
2) valleys, caves and peaks were a thing even before dragonriding. they started "flattening" the zones when ion decided that flying before the end of the expansion was bad
3) as i said above, fun minigame but not much more



i like they gave professions more relevance but i don't like how convoluted the new profession system is

Work orders are cool in a way but ruined professions for everyone but the sweatiest of people. Its impossible to make anything nice now that work orders exist and are so scarce. They either need to fix them or remove them and find an alternative.

[DeltrusDisc]

Have you considered joining the horde? I hate night elves because they're sanctimonious immortal weirdos & no one can stop me!

I am a Night Elf and I'll gladly mind control you off a cliff, Horde dog!

[Chickat]

Probably because it is like one of the few known landmasses we haven't visited yet.

Well it's possibly Avaloren but im not 100% convinced Avaloren is the same place as Khaz Algar. Might be. Probably is. We will see in 2 weeks.

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Does anyone else feel like they should expand Hallows End even more?

Id love to see a limited time spooky version of Kara with extra special drops and maybe even another dungeon. Waycrest manor anyone? Hallows End had the most potential of all their holidays besides maybe Winter Veil.

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This thread is dead tonight. Wonder why it stopped all of a sudden. We were getting a new page almost every hour a week ago.

[Gloriandus]

I can see Khaz Algar being the underground (a la Zion in The Matrix) where the heretics hide out, and that's where we start the expansion. The first patch is just us inching our way up toward Avaloren. A WoW trope for certain, and a well they'd have no problem going back to.

[Chickat]

Next expansion needs more solo or small group based content that just works and bring the evergreen features that worked in the past but with fresh coat of paint and new features, unlockables etc and at the same time not overdesigning it because they want to be very original.

If i don't like doing m+ grind every week, then when it comes to fresh open world content DF in patches hardly has anything to offer and new players coming back that want to do some of the 10.0 public events are usually f'd because that content is long dead, even Zaralek farming was dead quickly after its release.

WoW needs more solo and longterm, longer lasting stuff and i don't even mean something like azerite grind, it also needs to do better job at connecting the systems so that they are still worth doing later.

The main thing they need to tackle next expansion imo is yo not invalidate good fresh outdoor content literal weeks after releasing it. Also rares need to become 100% Soloable and up more often when new content comes out.

Imagine how many people would have went back to Forbidden Reach if all the rares had 1m HP instead. It would have been a cool place to farm really fast catch up gear before going to Zaralek.

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This is the reason why so many people ask for housing. That is an evergreen expansion-agnostic piece of content right there.

Housing, woodcutting and carpentry would do amazing things for the game.

Have like 2 tiers of wood per expansion all the way back to vanilla zones. Hundreds of furniture recipees to make woth more added later. Every prof can make something for carpentry. Nails, handles, door knobs etc for Blacksmiths. Dyes and stains from Alchemy or Inscription. Stones and gem like stuff for ornate furniture from JC. Special leather for sofas and rugs from LW. Etc. Also they could go back and add boss heads, trophies, special items to old raids and new content alike. If done right, it could breath new life into a large portion of WoW players gameplay. Obviously it shouldnt have too kany convenience features, but maybe you can pick a couple from a list ot like 10.

Have a bank and Mailbox plus a trader with rare items. Or other convenience things.

Plus you could have your own little mine in yhe cellar and a garden like the Garrisons.

Garden would grow herbs, flowers for decoration flower pots and wreaths, and vegetables for cooking. Maybe you could even have a small Forrest that respawns each week with a chance for rare lumber or even fruit trees.

The mine would have random ore from any expansion with a higher chance to spawn ore from the current expansion.

Inside the forrest area outside your house beasts would spawn each day with rare cooking mats, furs and leather, and bones.

There is so much they could do with player housing.

Also imagine if you could showcase your legendaries or artifacts on the wall or in a weapon wrack, and you would have a small stable and menagerie to stable your favorite mounts and pets.

Another thing they could do is allow you to have animals to raise and collect products from every day or week. Chickens, cows, pigs etc.

You could have duel areas, and maybe bosses come and attack your home every once in a while when you spawn in for revenge. Defeat them for rare loot.

You could have a bodyguard system more in depth like SWTOR and they could hang out around your house and you could even assign them daily tasks like clearing the mine or feeding the animals.

You could have a kitchen in your house for special food that only people with kitchens can make.

Now obviously they wouldn't do all that at launch but Housing as an Evergreen feature could grow into what I have mentioned.

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I disagree. Sadly it's the usual forum drivel. "You don't agree with me, therefor you are a yes man that will never say anything bad about DF". You can still enjoy the game and have your reservations about some choices. There is no black/white here.

Getting really tired of this "oh you still enjoy the game, you must be a fanboy" style posts.

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While I agree, we are in the minority here. Most people here were crying that it was the worst content ever and it should never ever have been released. And while I love Torghast, there was no real progression to it. That only happened near the end of the expansion cycle with the "endless" mode and such.
If they added a Torghast with more cosmetic style rewards (weapons mogs, armor etc) I would love it so much more.

I would have been 100% more inclined to do Torghast if it was 100% cosmetics.

[Woke it Up]

The main thing they need to tackle next expansion imo is yo not invalidate good fresh outdoor content literal weeks after releasing it. Also rares need to become 100% Soloable and up more often when new content comes out.

This is what I want instead of housing, projects that take 6-8 months that are us rebuilding the world, augmenting, or discovering, contributing resources and different gameplay elements. Ahn'Qiraj but for meaningful changes in the world (Which 90% can just be assets or switching back to repaired map layouts like the monk class hall, vale, dam, gilneas etc). Months of working to get gnomer into a city. With small "Maintenance" projects that can cause things to revert to broken if the world isn't taken care of. It would give uses for professions, pet battlers, old content explorers. Scaling up mobs could provide a way for old mobs and quests to provide resources for the build.

[Pinksocking]

This is what I want instead of housing, projects that take 6-8 months that are us rebuilding the world, augmenting, or discovering, contributing resources and different gameplay elements. Ahn'Qiraj but for meaningful changes in the world (Which 90% can just be assets or switching back to repaired map layouts like the monk class hall, vale, dam, gilneas etc). Months of working to get gnomer into a city. With small "Maintenance" projects that can cause things to revert to broken if the world isn't taken care of. It would give uses for professions, pet battlers, old content explorers. Scaling up mobs could provide a way for old mobs and quests to provide resources for the build.

that would be cool

ur hired

[Dragonborn]

There's probably some that I missed because there's too many pages and I can't read, but so far here's my tier list of potential expansion themes:

S: Hollow Azeroth, Void vs. Titans, Moon
A: World Revamp, Black Empire
B: Light vs. Void, Underground Cavern, Emerald Dream/Lifelands, Avaloren
C: Elementals
D: Pirates/Naval Exploration

[matijwow]

Elune is gonna be at some point in 10.2
I don't think the aspects can get power without forcing the celestial event

Also I swear if Avaloren is a dwarvish wakanda I'm gonna play a character named Bucky

The datamined spell makes it seem like they're going to get their power from the tree, though. I don't know how that's supposed to work lore-wise unless it's through the Titan-like powers of Elune and the Winter Queen embedded in the seed.

Though it could be a bridge event if during the blessing, Elune is somehow vulnerable and Iridikron uses that moment to do something.

[Chickat]

This is what I want instead of housing, projects that take 6-8 months that are us rebuilding the world, augmenting, or discovering, contributing resources and different gameplay elements. Ahn'Qiraj but for meaningful changes in the world (Which 90% can just be assets or switching back to repaired map layouts like the monk class hall, vale, dam, gilneas etc). Months of working to get gnomer into a city. With small "Maintenance" projects that can cause things to revert to broken if the world isn't taken care of. It would give uses for professions, pet battlers, old content explorers. Scaling up mobs could provide a way for old mobs and quests to provide resources for the build.

That sounds cool too but id rather have housing. Why not both haha.

[Leowyld]

The datamined spell makes it seem like they're going to get their power from the tree, though. I don't know how that's supposed to work lore-wise unless it's through the Titan-like powers of Elune and the Winter Queen embedded in the seed.

Though it could be a bridge event if during the blessing, Elune is somehow vulnerable and Iridikron uses that moment to do something.

I doubt we are going to get a bridge to 11.0 in 10.2 or any other later patch, since we are going to see the expansion announced and detailed before we even start the 10.2 campaign.

[Chickat]

I still think this comes down mostly to class design. Mop's content was fine. Some standouts, lots of average content, lots of frustrating things like daylies. Almost everyone that plays since then lists the mop or wod version of a spec as favourite. If you are having a blast playing with your class you have more fun doing bad content. Thats why mop still holds up and bfa for example is a dumpster fire.

I do think timeless isle and isle of thunder are better in a lot of ways than current content. Also lots of neat stuff like dragon faction and the farm. But i agree it was prob 50% about spec and class enjoyment. Explain to me why locks were more fun in MoP and they keep just making them worse or worse versions of what we had in MoP.

BFA is over hated but i do think personally it would have went from a C+ to a B+ just by adding MoP class design instead.

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So Amirdrassil is not main capital? Hyjal still has it hope to me
Maybe there will be more world trees across Azeroth. Hyjal, BI, DI. At least 3 will be acting.

Also
>Amirdrassil growing and coming to Azeroth is something both factions are interested in
That is strange topic. What is deal with Horde at Amirdrassil. Dont take away NE victory once again. Give them big W and leave them for 3-4 expacs.

I think it would be cool for the new Night Elf zone 1-15 to be a phased version of Amirdrassil and surrounding area and then at 15 they port to hyjal and quest there till 30. Then they get sent to Felwood or Ashenvale as a choice from 30 to 40. Darkshore or Feralas as 40 to 50 zone. Something like that.

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yea, MoP and Legion are both great examples of everyone hating them endlessly and now going "omg it had such good content! They were the best expansions". At the end of next expansion? People will be praising DF and SL, just wait for it.

I praise DF now for pulling the game out of the gutter. Its not an amazingly good expansion but a nice safe above average one. Looking back Same tier as Wrath,Cata,Bfa.

The only two bad expansions are WoD and SL. And even both of those had a ton of redeeming qualities.

Legion, MoP, and TBC are the big 3 good expansions in my eyes. I would have put Wrath there a year ago but my rose tinted Goggles are off now and I see all of Wraths flaws. TBC obviously doesn't hold up to modern expansions for world content but for its time it might be the best overall.

[matijwow]

I do think timeless isle and isle of thunder are better in a lot of ways than current content. Also lots of neat stuff like dragon faction and the farm. But i agree it was prob 50% about spec and class enjoyment. Explain to me why locks were more fun in MoP and they keep just making them worse or worse versions of what we had in MoP.

BFA is over hated but i do think personally it would have went from a C+ to a B+ just by adding MoP class design instead.

They've remade Timeless Isle in every expansion.
Tanaan Jungle
Broken Shore and Argus
Mechagon Island and Nazjatar
Zereth Mortis
Forbidden Reach

They're all outdoor zones with a high enough concentration of mini-bosses/rares and players that you can forage around for loot pinatas that you fight with groups that you can casually find and work with, often without talking. It's rewarding like a peanut field for squirrels.

It feels pretty stale to me though at this point.

[Chickat]

We have a reasonably small community here. I can say that most people have kept their opinions very consistent. Sure if you are looking at aggragates you may be seeing shifts but that doesn't mean people who consistently play the game have changed their minds significantly. Also how we evaluate each expansion is a lot more nuanced than simply good/bad.

Yeah its weird. Put WoD and Shadowlands next to each other. SL had a massively greater amount of content but all the gameplay systems were pretty bad until the final leg of the expansion. WoD overall was better from a systems and Gameplay standpoint, especially when it comes to world feel, leveling, and raiding. There just wasnt enough to do. And SL lacked content compared to Legion or even BFA, but it definitely had a lot more than WoD. But SL overall felt bad to play and and the theme and world feel was off. It wasn't somewhere i wanted to spend time. WoD however could have lasted 3 years with 4 or 5 patches and I would have been delighted to stay there. WoD was just a nice place to be and I really enjoyed being in that world. I think WoD is the best feeling expansion aside from maybe MoP. I would honestly like to go back to Draenor again some day. I never want to visit the SL again. So yes, its definitely a complicated comparison and neither one really wins in my eyes.

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They've remade Timeless Isle in every expansion.
Tanaan Jungle
Broken Shore and Argus
Mechagon Island and Nazjatar
Zereth Mortis
Forbidden Reach

They're all outdoor zones with a high enough concentration of mini-bosses/rares and players that you can forage around for loot pinatas that you fight with groups that you can casually find and work with, often without talking. It's rewarding like a peanut field for squirrels.

It feels pretty stale to me though at this point.

Timeless Isle still did it best. Sure it lacked story but the actual mechanics of the zone worked better. Perhaps it's nostalgia. Ill let you know in 3 years when MoP classic is out. Also, the elite area at the top is still the best designed elite area in any zone. The elites all had one shot mechanics but didnt hit hard if you played well. I think that is how all elites and rares should be. Not some damage sponge that has 6m HP and hits you like a truck with white attacks. No, elites and harder rares should have easily readable ajd telegraphed mechanics with a moderate amount of health. Say 2.5m or so. I think the rares in Zaralek would be killed much more often of they were designed like this. In DF they are a slog to kill and hit you hard no matter how good you play.

[Magistrate]

I do think timeless isle and isle of thunder are better in a lot of ways than current content. Also lots of neat stuff like dragon faction and the farm. But i agree it was prob 50% about spec and class enjoyment. Explain to me why locks were more fun in MoP and they keep just making them worse or worse versions of what we had in MoP.

BFA is over hated but i do think personally it would have went from a C+ to a B+ just by adding MoP class design instead.

I really enjoyed Timeless Isle at the time. I 100%ed all the achievements while it was current, PVP/bloody coins included. But:

1. I do not believe that it is inherently better than what we get today. It boiled down to 1) collect treasures, 2) kill elites, 3) do dailies, and 4) kill the world boss. It would not pass muster today. Nazjatar technically had more forms of content in it and I felt like that zone was underwhelming. Everything it did, we have in modern content and more.

2. Timeless Isle also came out basically a decade ago--for me, that was early 20s. What felt like "enough content" back then is very different than today.

I contend the issue is that there are 1) too many world events layered on top of each other in the same zones. It feels messy, and it feels like none of the plot points the events were created for are resolved, which feels bad. The other I think for many is that 2) the story and aesthetic isn't really connecting with many. This latter point isn't one I want to relitigate--it's been had dozens of times in this very thread.

I think in recent expansions the best zones for me have been Mechagon (I don't even particularly like gnomes--it just felt like fun) and the Nyalotha-invaded Uldum/Vale zones. Sandboxy, visually stunning, many different forms of content, and developed distinct areas/topics of fan-favorite but often neglected lore.

[Woggmer]

I think there will certainly be tension between Tyr and Vyranoth, but I don't know if that will go straight into Tyr being ready to sacrifice himself to take out Alex. As much of a cool shock moment this could be, the red dragonflight has been essentially absent from this expansion aside from The Waking Shores, and there doesn't seem to be a clear successor to Alex if this were the case.

To me it feels that they are setting Tyr up as the Watcher that will be mortal-allied in the inevitable anti-Titan (or Titan-skeptic) narrative that will come, with Odyn on the opposing side.

I would much prefer that and hope it to be the case.

Like I don't like the idea that suddenly ALL the Titan Keepers (besides Odyn) are inherently evil or anti-mortals. Especially since we've proven ourselves time and time again that we aren't as weak, helpless, or fully corrupted... especially since we actually HELPED the Titans against Argus and foiled Sargeras's plan.

Though, I'm already expecting them to make Tyr bad solely because "Oh, well he's like Odyn and both share the same ideology that Order comes above everything else. Because that's what ALL the Titans want." And then Vyranoth is gonna destroy him and pull the same thing that Illidan did against Xe'ra and be like "I told you that we're all prisoners of the Titans!" and everyone goes "We instantly believe you."

[Zers Editor]

I would much prefer that and hope it to be the case.

Like I don't like the idea that suddenly ALL the Titan Keepers (besides Odyn) are inherently evil or anti-mortals. Especially since we've proven ourselves time and time again that we aren't as weak, helpless, or fully corrupted... especially since we actually HELPED the Titans against Argus and foiled Sargeras's plan.

Though, I'm already expecting them to make Tyr bad solely because "Oh, well he's like Odyn and both share the same ideology that Order comes above everything else. Because that's what ALL the Titans want." And then Vyranoth is gonna destroy him and pull the same thing that Illidan did against Xe'ra and be like "I told you that we're all prisoners of the Titans!" and everyone goes "We instantly believe you."

I mean, if he's that opposed to anything that is not related to Order, why would he go on revealing things that have a chance of dissuading the dragons from it further? Especially if Vyranoth (as Stickney implies in her recent Millenium interview) is among those who will ask Tyr questions?

https://www.millenium.org/news/407799.html

Because it seems, again, by Stickney's wording, that he will do it. And the now-certain break-up of the dragons from the Titans won't be as explosive as many are expecting. Unless they will push with the "he goes desperate thinking Alexstrasza will become corrupted too".

[PotHockets]

I doubt we are going to get a bridge to 11.0 in 10.2 or any other later patch, since we are going to see the expansion announced and detailed before we even start the 10.2 campaign.

We already got the bridge anyways when Iridikron ran off with a void empowered/out of place in time Dragon Soul

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I would much prefer that and hope it to be the case.

Like I don't like the idea that suddenly ALL the Titan Keepers (besides Odyn) are inherently evil or anti-mortals. Especially since we've proven ourselves time and time again that we aren't as weak, helpless, or fully corrupted... especially since we actually HELPED the Titans against Argus and foiled Sargeras's plan.

Though, I'm already expecting them to make Tyr bad solely because "Oh, well he's like Odyn and both share the same ideology that Order comes above everything else. Because that's what ALL the Titans want." And then Vyranoth is gonna destroy him and pull the same thing that Illidan did against Xe'ra and be like "I told you that we're all prisoners of the Titans!" and everyone goes "We instantly believe you."

They're Order. Mortals are inherently chaotic. Literally as far back as Ulduar, maybe further idr right now, there have been hints the titans aren't on our side. It took a bugged out program going against it's programming to stop Azeroth from being wiped clean.

There's so many breadcrumb storylines over the years about the Titans being maybe not malicious to mortals but at best an Enemy of my Enemy situation. Tyr and Eonar are probably the only two that are actually on the Mortals side as well as Disorder and not just against Disorder and fuck the mortals if they dont bend the knee like Odyn and the rest of the pantheon.

[Samin]

I would much prefer that and hope it to be the case.

Like I don't like the idea that suddenly ALL the Titan Keepers (besides Odyn) are inherently evil or anti-mortals. Especially since we've proven ourselves time and time again that we aren't as weak, helpless, or fully corrupted... especially since we actually HELPED the Titans against Argus and foiled Sargeras's plan.

Though, I'm already expecting them to make Tyr bad solely because "Oh, well he's like Odyn and both share the same ideology that Order comes above everything else. Because that's what ALL the Titans want." And then Vyranoth is gonna destroy him and pull the same thing that Illidan did against Xe'ra and be like "I told you that we're all prisoners of the Titans!" and everyone goes "We instantly believe you."

The Tyr questline is very aware how mortal-aligned Tyr has always been. He died protecting mortals. I'm not really worried Blizzard "forgot". There is absolutely no setup for him turning "evil".