The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

You don't have to tell a new player everything, just the basic stuff that gives context for future appearances.

10.2 is a good example. An entirely new player will not have any idea why the tree is so important to the Nelves, nor why Forsaken are there. But just a bit of context would change that.

The best way to approach this would be to give new players enough context that they feel compelled to go to other old zones and see more of the story.
When a new player makes an Orc they have years of story that they have no context for. You could just tell them to go through it chronologically, or you could give them enough context that they realize that Siege of Orgrimmar would be an interesting next step on their own.

Feels sort of like kicking the can down the road. New player doesn't understand new tree growing vs new player doesn't understand old tree burning.

The best way to approach it would be to clean break between pre-"version 3" and post-v3. Time skip 20-30 years and contextualize new players in the ongoing events they are facing, not try and point them roughly in the direction of a bunch of stuff that's just going to rabbit hole.

A new orc player doesn't need to learn about the Siege of Orgrimmar, they need to know they are a grunt and the botani lurking in Durotar's relatively new jungle or whatever are dangerous and there's primalists working with harpies in the northern barrens. Just like a new undead player doesn't need to know about Sylvanas' narrative, they need to know they serve the Desolate Council and that things are tense between them and the nearby Void Elves who have turned Scholomance into an academy for the study of the Void.

Trying to teach lore to a new player is a pipe dream. It was a pipe dream in Vanilla when characters were all fairly one-note, and there were just a handful of major groups and events to deal with. It's a pipe dream in a pipe dream in the current game, where major characters all have long storylines with a bunch of different arcs and the world is so much more complex. You are better off just moving on to a new era and letting them poke around in old stuff if they get curious.

But as above, I imagine that's not really what people (veteran players) want out of a revamp. They don't want a bunch of all new plotlines disconnected from old zone context, focused on providing a foundation for new expansions, they have a bunch of existing plotlines they want addressed. They don't want Void Elves in WPL, they want turbo Scarlet Crusaders and the Kirin Tor making a new version of Dalaran. They don't want the Night Elves moving to a new land where they might be safe and have peace, they want them doubling down on their old holdings in Hyjal and also for them to keep hunting the Forsaken.

[Wangming]

But as above, I imagine that's not really what people (veteran players) want out of a revamp. They don't want a bunch of all new plotlines disconnected from old zone context, focused on providing a foundation for new expansions, they have a bunch of existing plotlines they want addressed. They don't want Void Elves in WPL, they want turbo Scarlet Crusaders and the Kirin Tor making a new version of Dalaran. They don't want the Night Elves moving to a new land where they might be safe and have peace, they want them doubling down on their old holdings in Hyjal and also for them to keep hunting the Forsaken.

Oh I wouldn't mind completely new stories instead of old ones being dragged around like a corpse on its way to rigor mortis. The problem is, the old ones still aren't done. They didn't really wrap up anything.

[Makorus]

Yes, he's setting the tree aflame.
... by corrupting it.

Because infusing something with elemental fire, makes it burn.

Except he tries to set the tree on fire before he even tries corrupting the Heart?

He's setting the tree on fire by... setting the tree on fire? He wants the "Heart", whatever that is, but he also wants to destroy the tree.



That's P1, before he even attempts to corrupt anything.

[Wangming]

Except he tries to set the tree on fire before he even tries corrupting the Heart?

He's setting the tree on fire by... setting the tree on fire? He wants the "Heart", whatever that is, but he also wants to destroy the tree.



That's P1, before he even attempts to corrupt anything.

This is about as logical as Rey vs Palpatine.

Palpatine wants Rey to kill him so his spirit can posess him. Rey foils his plan by....killing him.

Now in this case Fyrakk tries to burn the tree the normal way. And since that doesn't work he instead tries a far more complicated way to burn the tree (corrupt the heart with shadowflame)

[Houle]

This is about as logical as Rey vs Palpatine.

Palpatine wants Rey to kill him so his spirit can posess him. Rey foils his plan by....killing him.

Now in this case Fyrakk tries to burn the tree the normal way. And since that doesn't work he instead tries a far more complicated way to burn the tree (corrupt the heart with shadowflame)

"Amirdrassil is ALL the world trees!"
*uses 2 (!) branches to blast away Fyrakk with his own shadowflame*

[Makorus]

This is about as logical as Rey vs Palpatine.

Palpatine wants Rey to kill him so his spirit can posess him. Rey foils his plan by....killing him.

Now in this case Fyrakk tries to burn the tree the normal way. And since that doesn't work he instead tries a far more complicated way to burn the tree (corrupt the heart with shadowflame)

I mean, his end goal is destroying the tree and claiming its mysterious power.

At first, he tries to use generic fire, doesn't work, and then he goes directly for the heart by corrupting the core and setting it ablaze this way.

No matter what he does, the tree goes on fire. He doesn't need the tree.

[Raetary]

That's P1, before he even attempts to corrupt anything.

He's an elemental fire dragon, burning things is literally his way of corrupting other things.
He does to the tree what he's been doing to his minions and the dream throughout the entire campaign.

It really is not rocket science, man.
It really isn't.

You don't need some harvard diploma to understand that a fire elemental spreads its own power by making things burn.

[NikolaiShade]

I'm sorry to intrude in the converstion, but the part where Fyrrak interacts with the Heart reads:

Intermission: Amirdrassil in Peril:
Fyrakk assaults the Heart of Amirdrassil directly with corrupting flames

Basically, Fyrrak starts corrupting/burning the roots and then the heart is exposed for the rest of the fight. so it's not that crazy to attack the roots first if doing so expose the Heart you want to burn/corruppt

[Sondrelk]

Feels sort of like kicking the can down the road. New player doesn't understand new tree growing vs new player doesn't understand old tree burning.

The best way to approach it would be to clean break between pre-"version 3" and post-v3. Time skip 20-30 years and contextualize new players in the ongoing events they are facing, not try and point them roughly in the direction of a bunch of stuff that's just going to rabbit hole.

A new orc player doesn't need to learn about the Siege of Orgrimmar, they need to know they are a grunt and the botani lurking in Durotar's relatively new jungle or whatever are dangerous and there's primalists working with harpies in the northern barrens. Just like a new undead player doesn't need to know about Sylvanas' narrative, they need to know they serve the Desolate Council and that things are tense between them and the nearby Void Elves who have turned Scholomance into an academy for the study of the Void.

Trying to teach lore to a new player is a pipe dream. It was a pipe dream in Vanilla when characters were all fairly one-note, and there were just a handful of major groups and events to deal with. It's a pipe dream in a pipe dream in the current game, where major characters all have long storylines with a bunch of different arcs and the world is so much more complex. You are better off just moving on to a new era and letting them poke around in old stuff if they get curious.

But as above, I imagine that's not really what people (veteran players) want out of a revamp. They don't want a bunch of all new plotlines disconnected from old zone context, focused on providing a foundation for new expansions, they have a bunch of existing plotlines they want addressed. They don't want Void Elves in WPL, they want turbo Scarlet Crusaders and the Kirin Tor making a new version of Dalaran. They don't want the Night Elves moving to a new land where they might be safe and have peace, they want them doubling down on their old holdings in Hyjal and also for them to keep hunting the Forsaken.

You still need the basics of the race though. And I am not saying that all old lore should be equally relevant, but rather that you should give new players a firm understanding of what exactly the race you picked is on about. I do in fact mostly agree with you here.

Say you make a dwarf. You start in Exiles Reach learning about the Alliance in broad terms. Then you get sent to Dun Murogh where you are shown Ironforge, the basic stuff like their relationship with the gnomes, their tech, brew, etc. Then you go to Ironforge and get a brief summary on the three main clans, and why Dagran is important. Then finally you go somewhere and learn about some enemy for the expansion for Dwarves to focus on.

That is not a large amount, but you will then have explained everything a new dwarf player needs to know to learn more stuff. Old content like Gnomeregan and Blackrock Depths now make sense as additional avenues of lore for those interested, and not just as more content to see.

All of this is necessary for a new player, and something which yet another new continent doesn't give. Even more relevant now that we might see new dwarves somewhere else. Them being oddly similar to our dwarves is meaningless when new players don't know about the old ones.

[NikolaiShade]

He's an elemental fire dragon, burning things is literally his way of corrupting other things.
He does to the tree what he's been doing to his minions and the dream throughout the entire campaign.

It really is not rocket science, man.
It really isn't.

You don't need some harvard diploma to understand that a fire elemental spreads its own power by making things burn.

And we have the Druids of the Flame as a form of corrupted druids so is easy to infer that in druidism fire has inherent corrupting properties. and keep in mind fyrrak is infused with Shadowflames, evil purple fire and purple fire is the evilest of all evil fires lol

[Jekyll]

World of Warcraft: Storms of Avaloren
lvl cap raised to 80
New neutral race: Algaren. tall dwarves made of stone but have colored hair.
New continent: Avaloren.
4 zones. Art looked like jungle, desert, snowy peaks and rocky peaks.
Khaz algar capital city partially underground. Like IF if half of it was above ground.
No new specs. Some specs turned into support specs.
lightbound titan keepers
storm dreadlords
fancy dragon/moth hybrid things
Saw what looked to be a boat piloted by a player character.
Image of Silvermoon with a harbor and a lot of nightborne asthetics around as well.
gilneas repaired with night elf asthetics around and a harbor where the worgen starting zone is.

if this is true I'm angry we cant play as ogres yet :3

[Pheraz]

if this is true I'm angry we cant play as ogres yet :3

"Some specs turned into support specs"

Yeah... I think many players would be really.... not amused I wonder why the leak-larpers always put some weird indeas in there that reveals the fake

[ZyntosAran]

"Some specs turned into support specs"

Yeah... I think many players would be really.... not amused I wonder why the leak-larpers always put some weird indeas in there that reveals the fake

Blizzard actually confirmed they will never change specs that much again like they did with hunters survival.

[Lady Atia]

"Some specs turned into support specs"

Yeah... I think many players would be really.... not amused I wonder why the leak-larpers always put some weird indeas in there that reveals the fake

Yep, especially as they recently said in interviews they would rather add new specs instead of turning existing ones into support specs.

[Makabreska]

He's an elemental fire dragon, burning things is literally his way of corrupting other things.
He does to the tree what he's been doing to his minions and the dream throughout the entire campaign.

It really is not rocket science, man.
It really isn't.

You don't need some harvard diploma to understand that a fire elemental spreads its own power by making things burn.

Did people forget that Fyrakk now uses shadowflame, which ACTUALLY corrupts?

[PotHockets]

Did people forget that Fyrakk now uses shadowflame, which ACTUALLY corrupts?

That would require people to play the game and not just watch an outrage bait yters take on it silly

[Gigantique]

If you started in Cata, then Duskwood is a "new zone".

Except you have zero context for Abercrombie. And you have zero context for Stalvan's brother investigating him, and you have zero context for Morbent Fel's switch to an actual Lich, and you have zero context for Sven Yorgen being furious at Jitters, or who either of those characters are.

So it's a "new zone" where you're stuck in the middle of a bunch of shit you don't get because it's all based on having already played through the old zone.

Disagree slightly because IIRC the context is revealed during the same quests. Sure an old player will know as soon as The Old Hermit is mentioned that it's gonna lead to Stitches shenanigans or that Jitters being at Raven Hill has serious reason TO be nervous, Stalvan investigating his brother will lead to his psychotic streak being revealed etc.

But each quests exposits that information as well for new players (Abercrombie doesn't need past knowledge so he stays a fresh if telegraphed "wait what!" for newbies) where the new player joins Stalvan in discovering the truth about his brother, Sven (or Jitters I can't remember tbh) explains that Jitters brought the worgen down on Sven's family etc.

It's exactly how it's done right imo. Those in the know get some more fleshed out story around it while new players get a little catchup as well as a new plotline.

[Makorus]

That would require people to play the game and not just watch an outrage bait yters take on it silly

Yup, because Shadowflame only corrupts and doesn't burn. Oh wait.

Sometimes "Amirdrassil burns" just means "Amirdrassil burns".

[Catastrophy349]

Make sure to fill, and re-fill, your copium/hopium tank each morning before beginning the day. 12 days of speculation ahead of us (only 9 days until the new WoW book)!

[lanerios]

Yup, because Shadowflame only corrupts and doesn't burn. Oh wait.

Sometimes "Amirdrassil burns" just means "Amirdrassil burns".

Exactly this, but people will try to see anything that isn't there. Look at the "But Khaz Algar means Undermine is next!" or "Hots has a tinker, so it means Tinker is next!"

- - - Updated - - -

Make sure to fill, and re-fill, your copium/hopium tank each morning before beginning the day. 12 days of speculation ahead of us (only 9 days until the new WoW book)!

If I look at the past few pages, the next expansion will teach us that burning isn't burning. But more of a corruption, and that the burning feeling is all in your head :P