The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

I would rather get more tank/dps/healer specs instead of support

I get that, but you also have 38 specs to choose from for that. People that like support gameplay have 1 spec.

[huth]

Logically, there is some proto-version of trolls, tauren and goblins that were originally stone, made by titans, and afflicted by the Curse of Flesh. We just havent' discovered them yet, or they are all gone.

Nope. Not all races are descended from Titanforged. Trolls and Tauren explicitly aren't.

[pacotaco]

But is it brainwashing? I am going to make a real world analogy here and tell you that from Tyr's perspective it likely is more akin to vaccination. For him Vyranoth is probably the anti-vaxxer mom screaming at him for trying to protect her children from mutating with random elemental infusions by giving them a stable form through Order. If to his perspective it is a provable fact that order infusion is to the benefits of those kids then it is an argument between the rights of parents vs the welfare of children. And Tyr could be wrong here; his facts could be tainted by bias. But that could still be his perspective.
@Aucald, is it OK to discuss it through this angle?

The equivalent would be more like eugenics. "Hey, I'm gonna mutate all your babies to make them better, you're welcome". (And where it says better, it means "just the way I think they should be because it fits my vision of how they should be")

For what we know it could even make them more easy to corrupt by the Void.

[Zers Editor]

It probably was like this:
- Alex thinks the infusion is good.
- Alex thinks that all dragonkin should get infused, because is good.
- Some of them oppose, but she thinks they're confused.
- She allows all the eggs to be infused.
- The opposed rebel.

Not really. She did not mind the process on its own, but she was against it being enforced upon those who were open about not wanting to go through it.

That thinking applies more to Tyr.

[Ilujee]

I love that concept! Except perhaps a Chi-Ji ritual dancer support would probably fit more than a bardic theme.

I didn’t think about it… love the idea though.

[Zers Editor]

For what we know it could even make them more easy to corrupt by the Void.

I think the one who is mainly affected by a chaotic force (Life) will be more prone to the Void than the one affected by a force of stability (Order, Death).

[seainma]

Man y'all were really going at it yesterday. Gotta love the where is my heavy metal Warcraft crowd.

Can someone creative drop a believable leak so we can get back to speculations! We are dry out here.

[Myrrh]

I love that concept! Except perhaps a Chi-Ji ritual dancer support would probably fit more than a bardic theme.

This is actually great. 10/10 idea.

Would be a very lore-friendly way of adding flourish and bite to dance moves, so the spec wouldn't just be some random dancer who somehow also does damage by dancing. Chi-Ji's colour palette would suit so well for like a fire dancer theme, too.

Continuing the wishful thinking, it could be cool to bring back the monk launch mechanic of different weapons changing attack animations, with some of the dance moves being weapon-dependent (if only the name/animations). I can definitely visualise this with a 1H sword and I like that thought a lot.

[Wangming]

This is actually great. 10/10 idea.

Would be a very lore-friendly way of adding flourish and bite to dance moves, so the spec wouldn't just be some random dancer who somehow also does damage by dancing. Chi-Ji's colour palette would suit so well for like a fire dancer theme, too.

If we want fire dancer perhaps it can even spit literal fire. i know Brewaster already does that, but who is to say two specs can't drink alcohol to make their braeth flamable. Using drinks seems to be a common theme for monk specs. It would be interesting if they doubled down on that.

[Teriz]

Because adding augmentation was clearly a turning point in the sense it was the first time we ever had a new spec added to a class; with the exception of guardian but that really should've existed since vanilla

Clearly they're more open to it now than they were

The devs may not have known before, but orginally DHs were scrapped from vanilla because they didn't know how to do that either - things change

The reason Augmentation was added was simply because it was a new type of spec that needed additional development time beyond the initial release date. The situation with DHs is that Blizzard couldn't come up with a 3rd spec due to the limited nature of the DH concept. Healing doesn't make much sense, and another DPS or Tank spec would cannibalize the existing specs. You were proposing a DPS spec.

With that said, Blizzard COULD come up with a 3rd support spec for the class, but even support doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If they do it, I'll be very interested in seeing what their concept is. However, the main point is that any DH 3rd spec is almost assuredly going to be support.

[GhostFish]

That seems likely yes. Or at least they have a natural capability to adapt to raw elemental energy, similar to how any gnome, even generations later, can be "cured" of the curse of flesh and returned back to mechanical form. Either way, "elemental" is inherent to the species, that is why they can breathe various forms of elemental magic.

Elementals are the most primordial/basic iteration of Life, but not it's only primordial form. On Draenor you had the Sporemounds, so plant-based (spirit) life became dominant instead of the primary four elements. I imagine evolution is a natural change, and it probably trends towards corporeal from energy. Given that the other cosmic energies seem to also become more flesh and more isolated from their respective force the more iterations they go through (see: Void Lords > Old Gods > Aqir > Qiraji > Silithid, basically just regular big bugs), I think we can assume that evolution trends in that direction. You become less energy-y and more regular being-y via natural evolution.

As the story goes, spores from Botaan turned the descendants of Grond into flesh and blood. The Spirit of Life turned them into flesh, and not some Old God influence.

I think the whole narrative of the "curse of flesh" as an infection engineered by the Old Gods should be questioned. The Titans call it a curse, but the Old Gods call it a gift. It's definitely a blessing and a curse. If flesh arises naturally then the Old Gods may have just reintroduced and accelerated it where the Titans tried to deny it to their constructs.

The Djaradin seem to be a naturally occuring "missing-link" between elementals and flesh, much like the Ogron on Draenor.

And the Draenei are flesh and blood, but apparently free of Old God influence. Otherwise Sargeras would likely have destroyed Argus rather than used it and it's inhabitants.

I don't think it would be surprising if the Trolls were naturally occuring on Azeroth without outside influence. The Zandalari even have rocky looking scales that can develop into spikes. Maybe Trolls are descended from something like smaller, ground dwelling proto-dragons.

[Wangming]

The Titans call it a curse, but the Old Gods call it a gift.

Well if beings of flesh are easier to corrupt than beings of stone it is not difficult to see why one side views it as a curse and another as a gift.

[Auxis]

My wishful thinking for the day: the race of Khaz Algar evolved via Life like how the Giants of Draenor evolved into flesh via the abundant Life on the planet.
And the Algarian's are similar to halflings as a result, as opposed to elemental dwarf-like people (just wishful thinking).

Think about it: we've got a lore book saying that a crater was left after Aman'thul ripped out Elun'ahir, and Eonar didn't tell him about the remaining roots. She deceived him and told Freya to keep an eye on the crater. These are roots of a cutting taken directly from G'Hanir, the Mother Tree of the Dream - not trees of Reality blessed by the Aspects. This things is practically an embodiment of Life itself.
We also have a book from the new Uldaman saying that a force of Earthen dispatched to inspect a fissure have evolved similarly to Dwarves but with different physiology (I read this as fleshified but look different to dwarves, thus the halflings route I'm hoping for). This could be the crater that Freya was watching over. If the rest of the Titans/Keepers aren't aware of it due to Eonar deceiving them/getting Freya to safeguard it.

/latenightramblings

[Nymrohd]

Btw on whether trolls predate the Titans' arrival.

Some kind of mortal creatures absolutely were around during the time of the Black Empire. They were not keeping their sacrificial alters wet on water elementals. Whatever that race or races where, we would probably meet them in Avaloren since it is not ordered and the locals that existed during the Black Empire likely have survived there in some form without Titan intervention. What I'd do is have the proto trolls be one of those races as well as the fleshier versions of elementals; drakes and salamanders and whatever other forms might have existed that are unknown; we've barely been to the Abyssal Maw and I am not sure I'd call the Djinn corporeal.

I also do wonder what is the source of all the anthropomorphic animal races that are descended from Ancients. Did they occur naturally as an evolution to a humanoid form or did Eonar and Freya (or maybe Elune) intervene to create things like the Tauren, Quillboar, Furbolgs or Vulpera.

[Myrrh]

Not really. She did not mind the process on its own, but she was against it being enforced upon those who were open about not wanting to go through it.

That thinking applies more to Tyr.

An unpleasant thought occurs; what if it's old gods again. The Void is the ultimate beneficiary of the War of the Scaleborn and Iridikron getting fired up enough to fully turn against Ordered dragons. I can absolutely see Blizzard writing an old god or two setting up the spark that led to all this so that they could reap the benefits down the line, particularly as Yoggles was already messing with protodrakes in creating Galakrond.

I think this would come at the cost of further character development of Alex/Tyr etc... which probably makes me more inclined to think this is where they will head.

If we want fire dancer perhaps it can even spit literal fire. i know Brewaster already does that, but who is to say two specs can't drink alcohol to make their braeth flamable. Using drinks seems to be a common theme for monk specs. It would be interesting if they doubled down on that.

Drinks you say

2min CD Inebriated Waltz: Imbibe liquid courage to lessen your inhibitions. For the next 15 seconds, the cooldown of your dance moves is reduced by 50% and your chance to hit with damaging attacks is reduced by 33%.

[AngerFork]

With that said, Blizzard COULD come up with a 3rd support spec for the class, but even support doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If they do it, I'll be very interested in seeing what their concept is. However, the main point is that any DH 3rd spec is almost assuredly going to be support.

IMO, Support would be a very good role for a 3rd DH spec. You could easily do something where you are granting demonic powers to the team and/or adding the destructiveness of fel to their attacks. That's before getting into all that they could add with their speed and/or spectral sight. I could also see a ranged spec for DHs, using fel energy from a distance, though that wouldn't really fit into the speed aspect of the class.

If we get support specs, DH would be a prime candidate for one.

Well if beings of flesh are easier to corrupt than beings of stone it is not difficult to see why one side views it as a curse and another as a gift.

True, but by that same token beings of stone are easier to control than beings of flesh. For a set of people who are all about Order in the universe & making sure everything is just so, free will poses a problem in itself.

[Pyrophax]

But why? Support specs actually make the game less toxic as people realize that they have to play together instead of being a dps ego? And they are fun, I love helping my group but don't want to heal, so augmentation really fills that niche for me.

But not when there is 3 support specs in 5man party. I tanked that shit and that scaly furry people refuse to respec. And that was horrible. Either they need talents to go full dps, just for that ocation.

Or make it not 20/80 it term of self/other dps. Like 50/50 or even 60/40.

[Teriz]

IMO, Support would be a very good role for a 3rd DH spec. You could easily do something where you are granting demonic powers to the team and/or adding the destructiveness of fel to their attacks. That's before getting into all that they could add with their speed and/or spectral sight. I could also see a ranged spec for DHs, using fel energy from a distance, though that wouldn't really fit into the speed aspect of the class.

If we get support specs, DH would be a prime candidate for one.

Like I said, I can definitely see it. Maybe give them pet demons they can drain power from and use it to boost others in their party, or push their soul fragment concept a bit more? Anyway, like I said I would be interested in seeing what concept they could come up.

I still think multiple support specs at once is more likely, with them opening up a 4th role to better balance these new support specs.

[Wangming]

True, but by that same token beings of stone are easier to control than beings of flesh. For a set of people who are all about Order in the universe & making sure everything is just so, free will poses a problem in itself.

That is also very true. Free will oposes order.

[Teriz]

But not when there is 3 support specs in 5man party. I tanked that shit and that scaly furry people refuse to respec. And that was horrible. Either they need talents to go full dps, just for that ocation.

A 4th role (support) is more likely IMO.