1. #3281
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    This color discussion reminds me if a muse I had about Fel Magic having another color, Red. Basically more hardcore then Fel green. Not relevant to Dragonflight but.... we get off topic often so >.>
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  2. #3282
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    This color discussion reminds me if a muse I had about Fel Magic having another color, Red. Basically more hardcore then Fel green. Not relevant to Dragonflight but.... we get off topic often so >.>
    Like when Orcs or Eredar turn red under sustained Fel influence.

    While games and especially Warcraft use a lot of color-coding, devs and artists also want a good bit of contrast in character designs, so unusual colors on individual* characters* don't have to mean too much.

    * weird to use these words to describe an Old God.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  3. #3283
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    This color discussion reminds me if a muse I had about Fel Magic having another color, Red. Basically more hardcore then Fel green. Not relevant to Dragonflight but.... we get off topic often so >.>
    To be fair, when we get deep into Antorus, the fel stuff turns angry red. And Gul’dan’s eyes radiate red energy, not green.

    So there’s definitely something to the “mega condensed fel be red” notion.

  4. #3284
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    To be fair, when we get deep into Antorus, the fel stuff turns angry red. And Gul’dan’s eyes radiate red energy, not green.

    So there’s definitely something to the “mega condensed fel be red” notion.
    And since we are talking about colour, it is funny how the Emerald Nightmare is red.

  5. #3285
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post



    Why is it funny? Just means the Nightmare has a dark reddish look compared to the Green we're all used to. Red is also kinda Void esc also, and can be used in many aspects for things that are opposing to Dreams and Happiness n shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Like imagine a nightmarish looking Wonderland. Would be akin to the Emerald Nightmare really...

    Hell, the Dream is like Wonderland, funny enough, just with far more trees and less queen BS...
    I know the logic behind it. But it is called the EMERALD nightmare, yet has a very distinct red colour. If you can't find humour in that, I don't think I can help with words.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Is it, though? The way the WoL is all-important and loved by all protagonists is much more cringe than BfA's constant "Champion!", and the ingame-graphic cutscenes, despite getting heavy mileage, haven't evolved from "characters standing around, talking, sometimes awkwardly shuffling on the spot to turn a different direction, then a pair of running boots or other body part hint of a 'surprise' appearance of a fan-favorite character, followed by the talking people turning and gasping, one by one"

    Tbh WoW's current cinematics, even those rendered in real-time, feel much more dynamic.
    I'm not saying you don't have a point, but for me presentation wins by default because the story is actually present in the game. Now it is okay to just hide some cool lore tidbits in other places for you to hunt, but when important parts of the story are delegated to tie-in books, I grow resentful.

  6. #3286
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    This is a video game. A visual medium. If a setting element is in frame, it’s because the creators want it there. WoW's factions and schools of magic are given particular aesthetics and color codes to denote their magical nature and affiliation. In WoW, black and neon green means Fel magic. If the creators did not want to suggest a connection to fel magic, then they should not have coded him as such.
    "Black and neon green means Fel" is a WoD and Legion invention, before that the Legion also used a lot of red. It's WoD and Legion that spammed green everywhere. Notice how everyone was complaining about "Green" fatigue in WoD and Legion but no one gave a shit in TBC? Maybe it's because back then the Legion wasn't so Green-coded.

    Furthermore, I don' see any green on their actual leader and creator:




    You are objectively proven wrong by Sargeras, master and creator of the Legion, not having even one shade of green on his body. Not even his eyes are green. And we know that Sargeras, like all his servants, was infused and transformed by the Fel.

    Green is also typically associated with Life, most of the Wild Gods are Green, the Titan Eonar is also Green, the Emerald Dream is Green, so No, Fel does not have a monopoly on the colour "Green".

    Beyond that, it's possible that the Old Gods, in their power, learned how to manipulate Fel. We already know for a fact that Yogg-Saron, despite being a puppet of the Void, dubbed himself the "God of Death", and his blood (created by the Void Lords) was used by the Undead Scourge as building material. But it's yet to be proven that the energy coming from Y'Shaarj is Fel. Even if it was, there's nothing in the lore that says Old Gods can't use Fel. Void elves can be Warlocks and even Demon Hunters (Hearthstone) despite being Void-infused, so there's no reason why an Old God couldn't use Fel.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2023-03-31 at 08:51 AM.

  7. #3287
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    This guy seems allergic to speaking clearly, but it is still nice to have all of the playable areas revisited in terms of rebuilding from the Cataclysm and possible Old God Threats.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Lv...l=Doronsmovies EK
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ti...l=Doronsmovies Kalimdor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKf5...l=Doronsmovies Northrend
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e173...l=Doronsmovies Outland
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXMU...l=Doronsmovies Pandaria

    Since we are already on the topic fo Y'shaarj. It would interesting if the "Revamp" Ended up being Old God Related. Granted even I don't think revamping all five continents at once is remotely possible (although it would make for a great new player experience). But if all of them end up being stirred back, we could at least see action in Southern Kalimdor (Silithus, Tanaris, Un'Goro, Uldum) Northrend (Storm Peaks and extending into Icecrown and/or Zul'Drak), Pandaria (At least the Dread Wastes) and Lordaeron (Tirisfal and at least Silverpine, but I wouldn't mind if the revamp affected Gilneas as well. And if we finally added Quel'Thalas). The latter mostly because that has had some interesting developments these days and should be reflected in the zone, but also because that was where we found Xal'atath.

  8. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    This guy seems allergic to speaking clearly, but it is still nice to have all of the playable areas revisited in terms of rebuilding from the Cataclysm and possible Old God Threats.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Lv...l=Doronsmovies EK
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ti...l=Doronsmovies Kalimdor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKf5...l=Doronsmovies Northrend
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e173...l=Doronsmovies Outland
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXMU...l=Doronsmovies Pandaria

    Since we are already on the topic fo Y'shaarj. It would interesting if the "Revamp" Ended up being Old God Related. Granted even I don't think revamping all five continents at once is remotely possible (although it would make for a great new player experience). But if all of them end up being stirred back, we could at least see action in Southern Kalimdor (Silithus, Tanaris, Un'Goro, Uldum) Northrend (Storm Peaks and extending into Icecrown and/or Zul'Drak), Pandaria (At least the Dread Wastes) and Lordaeron (Tirisfal and at least Silverpine, but I wouldn't mind if the revamp affected Gilneas as well. And if we finally added Quel'Thalas). The latter mostly because that has had some interesting developments these days and should be reflected in the zone, but also because that was where we found Xal'atath.
    There is an even easier solution, why not simply make a Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor, during the Black Empire days? The Ny'alotha raid already gives us a very small fraction of what the Black Empire could have looked like, and Dragonflight called back to that ancient era, and many documents from Dragonflight document the truth of that era and the lies of the Titans. Why not have Dragonflight end with the return of Murozond, leading to an Infinite Dragonflight/Old God/Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor?

    And inb4 "BUT WOD WAS HATED!!!"; It was hated because all the time travel stuff was explained in a book that only 1000 people bought.

    This is is a much better and simpler solution to conciliate an expansion about the Old God return and a possible "world revamp" (it wouldn't be a world revamp, but it would be a version of Azeroth set in the past).

  9. #3289
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    There is an even easier solution, why not simply make a Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor, during the Black Empire days? The Ny'alotha raid already gives us a very small fraction of what the Black Empire could have looked like, and Dragonflight called back to that ancient era, and many documents from Dragonflight document the truth of that era and the lies of the Titans. Why not have Dragonflight end with the return of Murozond, leading to an Infinite Dragonflight/Old God/Time Travel expansion set in Ancient Kalimdor?

    And inb4 "BUT WOD WAS HATED!!!"; It was hated because all the time travel stuff was explained in a book that only 1000 people bought.

    This is is a much better and simpler solution to conciliate an expansion about the Old God return and a possible "world revamp" (it wouldn't be a world revamp, but it would be a version of Azeroth set in the past).
    Maaaybe, but a time travel expansion where we go back to events that already took place, isn't really a compelling story if you think about it. You can't affect change. I mean, if it is JUST that.

    Not to bring THAT game up again, but Final Fantasy XIV did time travel well. Twice.
    The backstory of Shadowbringers would require a novella-length explanation, but the TL;DR is that events on an alternate plane of existence spilled over and killed everyone, so the good guys traveled back in time and place to the spot where this can be undone..

    And again in Endwalker we travel back into our distance past. We can't undo anything that happened, but it helps us learn the nature of the threat we were dealing with in the present. But that was one zone in the entire expansion.

    Funnily enough the good time travel in WoW was in Cataclysm where you go back in time to get the Dragon Soul so that you can fight Deathwing in the present. Something like that would actually be cool. But we need a good reason to go there. And a reason why what we do does not cause change on Main Azeroth. IIF it does not.
    A Time travel Black Empire expansion that leads to a revamp of the present would be wiiiiild.

  10. #3290
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Maaaybe, but a time travel expansion where we go back to events that already took place, isn't really a compelling story if you think about it. You can't affect change. I mean, if it is JUST that.

    Not to bring THAT game up again, but Final Fantasy XIV did time travel well. Twice.
    The backstory of Shadowbringers would require a novella-length explanation, but the TL;DR is that events on an alternate plane of existence spilled over and killed everyone, so the good guys traveled back in time and place to the spot where this can be undone..

    And again in Endwalker we travel back into our distance past. We can't undo anything that happened, but it helps us learn the nature of the threat we were dealing with in the present. But that was one zone in the entire expansion.

    Funnily enough the good time travel in WoW was in Cataclysm where you go back in time to get the Dragon Soul so that you can fight Deathwing in the present. Something like that would actually be cool. But we need a good reason to go there. And a reason why what we do does not cause change on Main Azeroth. IIF it does not.
    A Time travel Black Empire expansion that leads to a revamp of the present would be wiiiiild.
    The Old Gods have always meddled with time, their corruption of Nozdormu and creation of Infinite Dragonflight is proof of that, and the Old Gods are able to see all time-flows. Another Time Travel expansion centred around the Old Gods is very likely, and since alternate timelines always have ramifications in the main history (see WoD and Legion), what happens in the alternate past will have ramifications on the main present.

    Old Gods love meddling with time and this is an objective fact, the point here is that the Old Gods will probably try to return through some Time travel shenanigans, by using their puppet Murozond.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2023-03-31 at 10:50 AM.

  11. #3291
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    And since we are talking about colour, it is funny how the Emerald Nightmare is red.
    Actually, red is the complementary colour to green. That's likely why it was chosen.

  12. #3292
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    No i honestly think WoDs story was hated because it did not make sense in the aftermath. The story if WoD, the draenor part, wasn't bad in itself.

    NO timetravel story ever makes sense. Non in existence. Because you either create a paradox or anther dimension. Or what happens in the time travel has allready happend so you cannot change anything. Which in turn means: "Do whatever the fuck you want because that is what leads to your own life and nothing you do matters"
    Time travel is something that should never be entertained in a important story in wow other thn the occasional "trip to the past to look at an event" and write it off as a pocket dimeonsion for education or whatever.

    Take Black Morast.
    Our trip could have certain outcomes.
    1. We fail in protecting Medievh. This changes the future of Azeroth. Leading for the infinite dragons having no reason to go to medievh in the first place and us not being born most probably.
    So we either have a paradox or an alternate universe which is our future again. Our past is in another universe.
    Or we cannot fail at all because we know the future happens. Which in turn mean the whole infite dragonflight is a moot point and they should know that having no reason to even try to change the past.
    Or you could ingore everything regarding logic and shit on suspension of disbeliev and just do whatever. Creating holes in the lore left and right.

    WOD was explained with it being a pocket alternate dimension. But that would mean the infinite dragonflight has absolutly no effect on us. Whatever they change will happen to another dimension. Not us. So just let them do whatever they wan't to be happy.

    It just never makes sense. It can't make sense. Because the whole concept doesn't make sense inthe first place.
    Timetravel in wow should be forgotten and burried forever never to be touched again.
    Time travel has already become too important to be ignored and you'll have to accept that.

    The Old Gods created an entire Dragonflight whose sole purpose is disrupting the timelines and usher in the Hour of Twilight timeline. Plenty of dungeons and raids are centred around the Infinite Dragonflight and their attempts to disrupt timeline.

    Dragonflight introduces a questline where the ancient Black Empire is revisited, and the Past incarnation of N'Zoth speaks to the player, revealing that he has seen their past, present, and future. Indeed, all Old Gods perceive all futures. The end of that questline reminds the player that Nozdormu is doomed to become Murozond, the future is already set in stone.

    You cannot ignore the massive time travel aspect of Warcraft, it is too late to bury that and even Dragonflight has an entire questline centred around time travel (and it's the most iconic questline from Dragonflight).

  13. #3293
    I wish time travel was used even more in this expansion and i hope it will be in patches beyond 10.1.

    The lvling questline where you go fast through different timelines saving chromie & eternus was awesome and far more interesting than any of these primalist antagonists.

  14. #3294
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Yes and we stopped them in the endtime.

    Everything regarding the infinte dragonflight is from a realtiv timepoint befor the end of murozond. So we allready know they failed.

    Keep it as a gimmick for meaningless dungeons on the side for all i care. But don't cetner big events around it again.

    Also off topic in a way: I really really hope chromie does not replace Nozdormu... i cannot stand that voice...
    He already has an heir (anachronos), but wokers gonna woke, unfortunately. Rip.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  15. #3295
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Yes and we stopped them in the endtime.

    Everything regarding the infinte dragonflight is from a realtiv timepoint befor the end of murozond. So we allready know they failed.

    Keep it as a gimmick for meaningless dungeons on the side for all i care. But don't cetner big events around it again.

    Also off topic in a way: I really really hope chromie does not replace Nozdormu... i cannot stand that voice...
    Nozdormu disagrees with you, right after the End Times version of Murozond was defeated, he acknowledged that his fate is sealed and he tells the players that they will have to fight him eventually:

    Nozdormu says: Still, in time, I will... fall to madness. And you, heroes... will vanquish me. The cycle will repeat. So it goes.
    The cycle of Nozdormu-Murozond continues and cannot be broken; at the end of the Chromie questline, the Infinite Dragon Eternus even reminds Nozdormu of his fate:
    Eternus says: We will bring you to your ultimate fate.
    Eternus says: You cannot deny what is to come.
    Eternus walks away.
    Eternus says: When we meet again, do not expect clemency for what has transpired.
    She flies off, and exits through a time portal.
    And the final cutscene of that questline, once again, reminds the player that Nozdormu is doomed:




    Beyond that, Murozond is a fan-favourite villain who is constantly brought up in theories online, you have to admit that the idea of a Void-corrupted Dragon who seeks to disrupt time itself is badass. Surely you cannot believe that Murozond will never return?

    The cycle of corruption of Nozdormu continues, so long as Murozond exists in the time megaverse, the Old Gods have an opportunity to return via time travel shenanigans.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2023-03-31 at 11:08 AM.

  16. #3296
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    He already has an heir (anachronos), but wokers gonna woke, unfortunately. Rip.
    Are you one of these excellent guys who scream "woke" each time they see a girl in media?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #3297
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Are you one of these excellent guys who scream "woke" each time they see a girl in media?
    I think his problem is that they made Chromie transgender to cover up the fact that they fucked up their own naming conventions.

  18. #3298
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Are you one of these excellent guys who scream "woke" each time they see a girl in media?
    I can't speak for him but... Anachronos is a better option since he is the heir, then Chromie, I don't care for her.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  19. #3299
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I think his problem is that they made Chromie transgender to cover up the fact that they fucked up their own naming conventions.
    Honestly, the execution with Chromie was fine enough and didn't feel obtrusive. I would personally say there's more to complain about regarding her in the way of her insufferably saccharine personality—she's the model of everything that I dislike about this expansion and its tone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I can't speak for him but... Anachronos is a better option since he is the heir, then Chromie, I don't care for her.
    The primary issue is that every Bronze Dragon save for Chromie and Nozdormu has received effectively no characterization in the game's entire history, meaning that we have the option of either a character whose presence makes me want to vomit rainbows and a character who is hardly less bland than the sand he lives in. At the very least, Anachronos' few defined personality traits could be further built on for a character that's a tad refreshingly abrasive and gruff.

    Between Chromie and Anachronos, I'd prefer Anachronos, since Chromie just would be impossible to take seriously as a Dragon Aspect. She's a perfectly fine character in her proper time and place, but elevating her to such a role would be quite destructive.
    Last edited by AOL Instant Messenger; 2023-03-31 at 02:31 PM.

  20. #3300
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Wasn't all of this because from our point of view he just did not turn yet.
    Hes just will in our relative future.
    From our point of view we destroyed him. From his it is yet to come. His personal future. Our past.
    Murozond was destroyed. Nozdormu will become Murozond in the future. YOu could just say it is 100.000 years in the future and be done with it.

    And none of these theories ever make sense and will create a WoD aftermath all over again if you center an expansion around it.
    Isn't it a bit funny that you try to insist on a "we already did that" for a creature existing out of the "already" continuum entirely?

    Murozond is Nozdormu and more, any plan Nozdormu could have ever conceived of Murozond already knows. Practically this means Nozdormu can never "outsmart" Murozond, practically meaning Nozdormu cannot truly kill him or cause him to be killed, because Murozond knows exactly what will be done and can, knowing his past's actions, avert it. If Murozond is to be genuinely killed it has to be done by someone not affiliated to Nozdormu at all.

    Practically his end in the endtime was as even less convincing than N'zoth's, in spite of some people effectively going "But i looted him so he's gone FOREVER!!1!", in a setting where we literally just came back from the land of dead and had our asses handed to us by an alternate timeline version of Gul'dan. Nevermind that the void / old gods' whole schtick is that they literally just do not die (as in they just continue to do their thing in spite of their "death"), which is why the titans concluded that imprisonment was the better option.
    Last edited by loras; 2023-03-31 at 02:41 PM.
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