The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Auxis]

Only credible thing is the datamining that reveals the Algarian Stormrider. Only think we really have now is Khaz Algar
This makes things weird because from what we are told Khaz Algar is probably NOT in Avaloren. So if the expac is not Avaloren and is not a revamp, what is it?

Could be an expansion with more than one landmass/non connected areas like BFA or Cata?

[Nymrohd]

Could be an expansion with more than one landmass/non connected areas like BFA or Cata?

If Khaz Algar and Avaloren are released together as separate areas and the continent of Khaz Algar is a bit larger than Kul Tiras, I don't know what is going on with world building at Blizzard . . .

[Dracullus]

Could be an expansion with more than one landmass/non connected areas like BFA or Cata?

I hope not, beside BfA we also had SL where you didn't have portals on top of that. I could stomach traveling only because I had engineering wormhole.

[Enrif]

Or, or, Modan was pulled out of somebody's butt back in the early 2000s, and then somebody completely different sat down a year or two ago and looked for inspiration for a new dwarven settlement name, one which was inside a cave out at sea, and they found the word Algar and thought it sounded cool.

We're not exactly dealing with Tolkien here.

Or, it's just a random word they used.

Could be based on this random Quest NPC (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=29872/algar-the-chosen) which is a Ymirjar riding a frostwyrm.

Could be based on Alagalon, and have something to do with stars and constelars.

Could be based on the algan elementals
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=154845/brinestone-algan
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=154846/budding-algan
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=150834/disturbed-algan
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=151166/wayward-algan

Or, it could be just a random fantasy word with no deep meaning until Blizz will tell us what that meaning is.

[Nymrohd]

I hope not, beside BfA we also had SL where you didn't have portals on top of that. I could stomach traveling only because I had engineering wormhole.

Cata worked to an extent because it was very much a lobby game; you had very few tasks to do in the open world so you just waited in SW and Org for your queues or for friends to log in and everything was a loading screen away from your Earthshrine. BfA also worked because you had far fewer quests in the opposing faction continent so once every few days you might go there for some Azerite questing; if you did War Mode quests it was even better that you were taking a ship every time since it did help with the illusion of invasion. SL was the worst iteration by far imo since if you did not have some kind of portal you had to waste time forever in flight paths. Multiple times by the time I arrived, I had completely forgotten about WoW and was just watching something on Netflix or Youtube or playing some other game.

[Raetary]

Why would the dwarf clans call themselves Modan/Modani, when they don't gave a unified cultural identity?

They call themselves and we call them by their clan or faction name.
We specifically differentiate between Wildhammer, Dark Iron and Bronzebeard.
As well as Shadowforge, Ironforge and Aerie Peak.

For all we know there are no different Khaz Algar clans, but just one clan that embraced the name Algar, calling themselves Algarian.

[Wangming]

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen!

I suppose we still have fuck all to discuss. Correct?

[Kiria]

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen!

I suppose we still have fuck all to discuss. Correct?

Correct, but good morning

[Viridiel]

I doubt a real-world semantic analysis is going to help much at all. The languages of Warcraft sometimes use existing words but ascribe them a completely unrelated meaning (e.g., Thalassian = relating to the ocean in English (from Pre-Greek), but relating to High Elves in Warcraft). It's a fairly common tactic in many fantasy languages created by non-linguists/non-philologists. That said, we can perform a phonaesthetic analysis and an in-universe semantic analysis.

Avaloren seems like a clear example of euphony, being a name that evokes sophistication, pleasantness, and grandeur. It's meant to sound like a paradise, relating to fairies or elves or some other sort of divine or mythical race. Semantically, the only element that we can say anything definitive about is "val" or "valor", elements which appear in many Odyn-named things and means either literally valor or some other element like Order or even Light. "A-" strikes me as a grammatical prefix, which in real-life languages is usually a negating prefix or a directional preposition, like from, toward, or against, but has no in-game points of comparison. "-en" I have not much for, most likely meaning island or place but similarly has no in-game points of comparison. The only time it really appears in in-game place names is as the English adjectival suffix (e.g., Barren, Golden).

If I absolutely had to choose a semantic meaning for Avaloren, based on the keepers' attitudes toward its inhabitants, I would parse it as "island without valor". But a semantic analysis of a fictional language we have no resources for is tenuous at best, so we can only really go by the phonaesthetics which indicates it's a pretty place, not to mention the similarity to Avalon.

We have nothing to go by in-game for Khaz Algar (other than Khaz, obviously). Al- immediately makes me think it's from an Arabic word, so if I had a gun to my head I would go with the Arabic meaning of al gar, which is grotto. We already know there's a hole there so it may as well be.

[Wangming]

If I absolutely had to choose a semantic meaning for Avaloren, based on the keepers' attitudes toward its inhabitants, I would parse it as "island without valor". But a semantic analysis of a fictional language we have no resources for is tenuous at best, so we can only really go by the phonaesthetics which indicates it's a pretty place, not to mention the similarity to Avalon.

This is an interesting point. If Avaloren is a Titan name given to the place would the inhabitants use it? Hi, we are the assholes, welcome to Honorless Place!
Granted we were calling the planet Azeroth for centuries at least before it turned out that is the name of the world soul. I mean how awkward would it be if it turned out the Titan is actually named Karen or something?

[Viridiel]

Whis is precisely what I suggested.

Only if I had a gun to my head. I can't think of a single example of a foreign word (i.e., excluding loanwords used in English) being used for its actual meaning in a place name in Warcraft without being a direct reference to an existing place/thing (e.g., the -drassils). But we've definitely established that there's nothing stopping Blizzard from suddenly changing how they do things.

[Wangming]

I think my theory is pretty noteworthy, because it connects together a lot of the dots. But I guess not.

It is a pretty good theory, yes. But nothing leaked, otherwise, everyone would be discussing that. Don't ya think?

[Enrif]

I doubt a real-world semantic analysis is going to help much at all. The languages of Warcraft sometimes use existing words but ascribe them a completely unrelated meaning (e.g., Thalassian = relating to the ocean in English (from Pre-Greek), but relating to High Elves in Warcraft). It's a fairly common tactic in many fantasy languages created by non-linguists/non-philologists. That said, we can perform a phonaesthetic analysis and an in-universe semantic analysis.

Avaloren seems like a clear example of euphony, being a name that evokes sophistication, pleasantness, and grandeur. It's meant to sound like a paradise, relating to fairies or elves or some other sort of divine or mythical race. Semantically, the only element that we can say anything definitive about is "val" or "valor", elements which appear in many Odyn-named things and means either literally valor or some other element like Order or even Light. "A-" strikes me as a grammatical prefix, which in real-life languages is usually a negating prefix or a directional preposition, like from, toward, or against, but has no in-game points of comparison. "-en" I have not much for, most likely meaning island or place but similarly has no in-game points of comparison. The only time it really appears in in-game place names is as the English adjectival suffix (e.g., Barren, Golden).

If I absolutely had to choose a semantic meaning for Avaloren, based on the keepers' attitudes toward its inhabitants, I would parse it as "island without valor". But a semantic analysis of a fictional language we have no resources for is tenuous at best, so we can only really go by the phonaesthetics which indicates it's a pretty place, not to mention the similarity to Avalon.

We have nothing to go by in-game for Khaz Algar (other than Khaz, obviously). Al- immediately makes me think it's from an Arabic word, so if I had a gun to my head I would go with the Arabic meaning of al gar, which is grotto. We already know there's a hole there so it may as well be.

Al'Akir was arabic inspired. I don't think they would go with Al to refer to a arabic word without paying homage to how arabs would use the word al (al-akir,al'akir), just being part of the word as a whole would be a stretch. like altar or almond, it is just part of the word.

[Viridiel]

This is an interesting point. If Avaloren is a Titan name given to the place would the inhabitants use it? Hi, we are the assholes, welcome to Honorless Place!
Granted we were calling the planet Azeroth for centuries at least before it turned out that is the name of the world soul. I mean how awkward would it be if it turned out the Titan is actually named Karen or something?

Another thing they love to do in Warcraft and fantasy in general is have the same word mean different things in different languages. It could easily mean something positive in the native language and something negative in the Titan language. IIRC this sort of thing was used as recently as Dragonflight, I just forget what the word was... it meant something like "disgusting" in another language.

- - - Updated - - -

Al'Akir was arabic inspired. I don't think they would go with Al to refer to a arabic word without paying homage to how arabs would use the word al (al-akir,al'akir), just being part of the word as a whole would be a stretch. like altar or almond, it is just part of the word.

Both of the examples you just gave start with al because of Arabic influence. There are very few words that start with "al" that aren't either Arabic or Arabic-influenced.

[Enrif]

Another thing they love to do in Warcraft and fantasy in general is have the same word mean different things in different languages. It could easily mean something positive in the native language and something negative in the Titan language. IIRC this sort of thing was used as recently as Dragonflight, I just forget what the word was... it meant something like "disgusting" in another language.

- - - Updated - - -



Both of the examples you just gave start with al because of Arabic influence. There are very few words that start with "al" that aren't either Arabic or Arabic-influenced.

You can no accommodate for all languages in RL all the time. I'm doing fantasy stuff writing sometimes, and it's just not feasible to consider every language. But to you point, was it perhaps Durak, son of Thrall? If so, Durak is russian Дура́к for fool/idiot

- - - Updated - - -

Both of the examples you just gave start with al because of Arabic influence. There are very few words that start with "al" that aren't either Arabic or Arabic-influenced.

i'm pretty sure altar is from the latin altarium, not from arabic

[Auxis]

Just saw this on the official WoW youtube community tab and found it on twitter.
Has it been posted/discussed here?

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1716499746204823985

Do these match with any form of architecture in DF/Emerald Dream?

[Nymrohd]

Al'Akir was arabic inspired. I don't think they would go with Al to refer to a arabic word without paying homage to how arabs would use the word al (al-akir,al'akir), just being part of the word as a whole would be a stretch. like altar or almond, it is just part of the word.

I think with Al'akir they wanted to stress the Arabic theme because they have consistently used that theme for Elemental Air in general; the Djinn, the SKywall architecture, the use of curved swords. But if they were just sourcing a word looking for a sound that would work for Warcraft Dwarven, they don't have the same ties to theme.

- - - Updated - - -

Just saw this on the official WoW youtube community tab and found it on twitter.
Has it been posted/discussed here?

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1716499746204823985

Do these match with any form of architecture in DF/Emerald Dream?

Yes, they are used all over DF in any pillar in a Draconic structure.

[ercarp]

Just saw this on the official WoW youtube community tab and found it on twitter.
Has it been posted/discussed here?

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1716499746204823985

Do these match with any form of architecture in DF/Emerald Dream?

Wowhead covered it. Apparently they're similar to the architecture of the Bronze dragonflight area in Thaldraszus.

[Viridiel]

You can no accomondate for all languages in RL all the time. I'm doing fantasy stuff writing sometimes, and it's just not feasable to consider everylangauge. But to you point, was it perhaps Durak, son of Thrall? If so, Durak is russian Дура́к for fool/idiot

I'm referring to in-game languages. It meant something in Draconic for example and something else in... I don't know, Shath'yar. I really can't remember.

i'm pretty sure altar is from the latin altarium, not from arabic

The word altar is older than altarium, which is a Church Latin term. Altar is from adolare which was metathesised either from influence of Arabic words or altus (Latin for "high"). It's the weakest of the two -- almond was almost certainly changed from amond due to Arabic.

Again though I have to emphasise the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that Algar is actually from the Arabic word. It's just the strongest candidate by far if it IS from a real-world language.

[Wangming]

Both of the examples you just gave start with al because of Arabic influence.

No they don't. Almond comes from greek, altar comes from latin.