The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

It wouldn’t take any more then one greedy goblin.

All they would need to do is say one trade prince or another had been building power for years and is now trying to take over all of under mine, said goblin doesn’t like the alliance or horde either and Mabye has ties to venture Co so the other trade princes come to the allaince/horde for help retaking the city.

Boom under mine the raid.

I mean this is essentially what they did with Azjol’nerub, and that is absolutely an area blizzard wanted to explore as a zone at first.
Yet it only became a few dungeons.

[Izalla]

The gameplay loop of grinding Azerite is why BFA is widely regarded as one of the most hated expansions. A lot of people also hated Teldrassil and not being able to rebel against Sylvanas/Nathanos/Evil Horde, as well as how N'zoth was handled at the end.

Zone and (most) lorewise I think a lot of people liked it a lot, but gameplay wise it was like the reverse of DF. Also the way the devs reacted to the hate for the plot basically tanked all communication between devs and players forever. Couple Blizzard devs got so upset they legitimately quit the company because of how players treated them (I can think of two notable ones).

See I didn't care about the gearing because I haven't raided since the end of MoP and dungeons are basically dead if you don't enjoy mythic+, which I don't. So azerite issues had no impact on my fun. I just think of how damn much effort they put into BFA and I feel so goddamn sorry for the devs. They have been treated as maliciously out to get the players or just downright incompetent and stupid while delivering their biggest effort yet. For example, I doubt we will ever see an expansion long cinematic series ever again.

I agree about N'zoth being wasted only if it turns out he didn't actually just trick us into preserving him in the dagger. Still waiting to see if that happens or not.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean this is essentially what they did with Azjol’nerub, and that is absolutely an area blizzard wanted to explore as a zone at first.
Yet it only became a few dungeons.

Ya and Azjol’nerub had a lot more time out into it then just being a classic/cata concept with a special mount already being made before they scraped the idea leaving parts in the files.

[Izalla]

Again, you're talking about a major city controlled by a coalition of Goblins who value wealth above anything else. It's going to take more than a single greedy goblin with a hammer to make the trade coalition blow up its ties with the Alliance and the Horde.

Like I said, if you understand the lore behind Undermine, you quickly realize why simply it doesn't work as a dungeon.

Blizz will do whatever they want. They could easily make a dungeon that is you chasing some enemies through an otherwise neutral city. You could even be trying to evade whatever thugs serve as cops in such a place because they are in the way of your goal. But whether it makes sense or not doesn't always stop Blizz from doing what they want to with anything. Frankly it's a joy when they follow through on what does make sense rather than putting a less logical spin just to change things up.

[Jodmos]

It wouldn’t take any more then one greedy goblin.

All they would need to do is say one trade prince or another had been building power for years and is now trying to take over all of under mine, said goblin doesn’t like the alliance or horde either and Mabye has ties to venture Co so the other trade princes come to the allaince/horde for help retaking the city.

Boom under mine the raid.

Or the classic - they dug too deep. We need to go in to sort the situation out for them. (Plus the Gnomes have wanted to retake Gnomeregan since vanilla. How's that going?)

[Ferlion]

That one makes sense: it would've been "another loss for Nelves" because she wouldn't kill Azshara and lose to N'zoth, so they saved her vs Azshara for later.

On it's face this is a fine answer.

It's also one Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with while trying to hype up Night Warrior, considering the Night Warrior we meet in Ardenweald killed an Old God.

Honestly, even Shadowlands was really weird with Elune. You'd think in the expansion where they insinuate she's the Lifelands equivalent to the Winter Queen wouldn't have the Broker characters not know what power Tyrande was using.

[milkmustache]

Fuck it, I'm back on the boat of a Yrel lightbound invasion along side a void incursion with Titan spice thrown in.

The Tyr quest line is encrypted and will deal with us going to a different timeline where elisande is alive and has tyr's disk.

Going back in time to fight Elisande, who is extremely adept in time magic to the point of rivaling bronze dragons, will start a chain of events that'll pull Yrel and her army to our timeline to fuck shit up.

I am really curious where this lands, it definitely feels like it'll have the most impact of the future story. I'm totally prepared for it to just be some asspull of someone in this scenario creating the storms that shielded away Avaloren lol

[Izalla]

Fuck it, I'm back on the boat of a Yrel lightbound invasion along side a void incursion with Titan spice thrown in.

The Tyr quest line is encrypted and will deal with us going to a different timeline where elisande is alive and has tyr's disk.

Going back in time to fight Elisande, who is extremely adept in time magic to the point of rivaling bronze dragons, will start a chain of events that'll pull Yrel and her army to our timeline to fuck shit up.

Will we have to fight her though? She was never actually a "bad guy" despite being an enemy. Maybe they will use it as a way to put her back in the story.

[Selorian]

See I didn't care about the gearing because I haven't raided since the end of MoP and dungeons are basically dead if you don't enjoy mythic+, which I don't. So azerite issues had no impact on my fun. I just think of how damn much effort they put into BFA and I feel so goddamn sorry for the devs. They have been treated as maliciously out to get the players or just downright incompetent and stupid while delivering their biggest effort yet. For example, I doubt we will ever see an expansion long cinematic series ever again.

I agree about N'zoth being wasted only if it turns out he didn't actually just trick us into preserving him in the dagger. Still waiting to see if that happens or not.

BFA gear hate is fairly overblown, the AP grind was nowhere near as bad as Legion. The main issue was manapearls in 8.2 specifically for raiding, along with essences having no catchup until like halfway through 8.3. For people pushing Cutting Edge/high M+, Legion was a lot worse in that regard.

Also, I totally agree with feeling bad for the devs. They make bad decisions sometimes but they're only human, and people gotta remember they do this out of love of the game. Their pay relative to where they live is not that good.

and wrt nzoth I would be very surprised if he's not coming back in some way, him having newly recorded lines in the Thaldraszus questing is super suspicious

[Izalla]

It wouldn’t take any more then one greedy goblin.

All they would need to do is say one trade prince or another had been building power for years and is now trying to take over all of under mine, said goblin doesn’t like the alliance or horde either and Mabye has ties to venture Co so the other trade princes come to the allaince/horde for help retaking the city.

Boom under mine the raid.

We find out they are harbouring Gallywix and wreck the entire city to get our hands on him hahah

[Woggmer]

I've noticed that trend. Rather expand the list of characters - i mean, it's not like this is a movie you have to pay for more actors if you get more characters. You take characters in rotation. But you don't use Khadgar all the time. I mean he shoudln't be showing up to do magic for Draenei or for Night elves - you shoud use a draenei mage or a night elf mage in their zones.

It's the same with NElves. I like Tyrande and Malfurion and Illidan and Azshara, but do they have to do EVERYTHING - what about Shandris these years? Broll Bearmantle? Naralax? Prince Farondis (great character), Mordent Evenshade, Maiev, Delas Moonfang, Altruis the Sufferer, Vanden, Kora, and Freaking JAROD Shadowsong, Mordant Evenshade, Lothrius Mooncaller, and there's more... list goes on, some great character, like Farondis -- all just disappear. At least they have 4 - Gnomes seem to have 2.

How many Worgen characters do we really know outside Genn Greymane? I can't even remember his son now, he was only used in their introduction

Tess Greymane, she wasn't a worgen but she does play a big role if you played a rogue in Legion. Ivar Bloodfang (leader of the Bloodfang pack), Darius Crowley who was a criminal until the Worgen broke into the city and infected people, to which he turned into a Worgen and is now a commanding officer. There's also his daughter, Lorna Crowley, who was featured in the Alliance side of Stormheim' questline. And Genn's son (Liam) is his whole motivation against Sylvanas and the Forsaken.

There was also that one old lady turned into a Worgen in the Gilneas storyline who eviscerated a Forsaken for trying to take her cat, and there was those 3-4 sailors that sailed out of Gilneas before more of the zone sank into the ocean. And we can even include the Survivors of Southshore since they were held up in Fenris Isle and had to make a choice between turning into worgen or being turned into Forsaken, so they chose being Worgen.

(Cata has a lot of open-ended plots and characters that we almost never seen after that point.)

Honestly, I'm more surprised you manage to remember Mordant Evenshade, Lothrius Mooncaller, and Vanden.

[Izalla]

BFA gear hate is fairly overblown, the AP grind was nowhere near as bad as Legion. The main issue was manapearls in 8.2 specifically for raiding, along with essences having no catchup until like halfway through 8.3. For people pushing Cutting Edge/high M+, Legion was a lot worse in that regard.

Also, I totally agree with feeling bad for the devs. They make bad decisions sometimes but they're only human, and people gotta remember they do this out of love of the game. Their pay relative to where they live is not that good.

and wrt nzoth I would be very surprised if he's not coming back in some way, him having newly recorded lines in the Thaldraszus questing is super suspicious

I don't think it was ever explained why the dagger was integral to defeating him anyway. He probably told Azshara it was so she would do her best to obtain it to double cross him like she did indeed plan to. He helped Xal'atath get out of the dagger in the first place. Surely if it was a danger to him he would have tried to get that thing as far from himself and us as possible, but he didn't. He wanted us to have that dagger, and for it to be empty.

[Well Done Steak]

Will we have to fight her though? She was never actually a "bad guy" despite being an enemy. Maybe they will use it as a way to put her back in the story.

No one knows, have to wait and see to do the quest line.

All we know is that the infinites hid the disk with Elisande and we have to confront her.

Funny enough, I think there are infinite whelps flying around the nighthold, near Elisande.

[Kiivar86]

and wrt nzoth I would be very surprised if he's not coming back in some way, him having newly recorded lines in the Thaldraszus questing is super suspicious

Wait, what's this now? I must've missed mention of this. He has new lines?

[Darkarath]

No one knows, have to wait and see to do the quest line.

All we know is that the infinites hid the disk with Elisande and we have to confront her.

Funny enough, I think there are infinite whelps flying around the nighthold, near Elisande.

Imagine that the Infinites hid the disk in Yrel's Draenor Alternate timeline, and while we get there to get the disk, Yrel's Holy Army is conquering her Azeroth.

Would not that be a cool way of reintroducing the Light's threath?

[Teriz]

Idk there were quite a bit of non-mechanized gnomes there.

Do you know what cosmopolitan means? It means it contains people from all around the world. Un-mechanized Gnomes in a gnomish city isn't an example of cosmopolitan. Cosmopolitan is something like this;



Which is likely what Undermine is given that it is a global trade hub.

Strange because there’s a lot of horde/alliance people setting up camp in Rustbolt.

Yeah because they just found it and were trying to figure out what they found and what the city is about. That's not the same as a major trading city where people from all around the world gather and congregate.

I mean Mechagon even had a whole subprofession for called tinkering so.

I have no idea what this even means. The point is that Mechagon having Tinkers isn't the same as the global base of Tinkers being in Undermine.

You keep saying that Undermine is a “major lore location”. Just like Nazjatar & Kazan (ironically enough) were, yet both have gotten very minor parts in the game overall.

And the Broken Isles and Dragon Isles and Kul'tiras were given major parts in the game. What's your point? That Blizzard isn't going to use a major underground lore city in an underground expansion? Why would they do that when there's nothing else similar in the game?

Whereas the Dragon Isles had basically no lore for it other than the giant old god temple before DF and was a whole new creation with the exception of the name.
Hell, even forgotten kingdoms like Balor had more lore than the Dragon Isles did.

Yeah, but that wasn't what you said. You said that Blizzard wasn't using old lore locations anymore. Again, DF is such a location. If you don't want to use that we had the Shadowlands in 9.0, Kul'tiras in 8.0, the Broken Isles in 7.0, Draenor in 6.0, Pandaria in 5.0 etc, etc, etc.

[Selorian]

Wait, what's this now? I must've missed mention of this. He has new lines?

When you go back to the Black Empire during the leveling campaign (the specific quest is called Chromie Time), the Old Gods whisper to you. Most of them are reused, but what is distinctly N'zoth's voice has new ones

Knowing Presence whispers: I... know you. What you were. What you will yet be.
Knowing Presence whispers: You will follow him to the deep places. The dark waters will flow in his wake.

Since this takes place way in the past and the Void's deal is they see all possible outcomes, the common speculation is N'zoth got to narrow down which outcomes to look at, meaning he knew he would lose in BFA and planned around it.

[Teriz]

It wouldn’t take any more then one greedy goblin.

All they would need to do is say one trade prince or another had been building power for years and is now trying to take over all of under mine, said goblin doesn’t like the alliance or horde either and Mabye has ties to venture Co so the other trade princes come to the allaince/horde for help retaking the city.

Boom under mine the raid.

I said a dungeon, not a raid. However even as a raid, there's too much lore in that location to just dump it as a raid. Also you sort of have to actually visit a location first before it becomes a raid.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizz will do whatever they want.

Yes, which is more than likely having Undermine as a multi-zone location.

[arandomuser]

no definitive leaks like shadowlands or dragonflight this time around?

[Northelim]

no definitive leaks like shadowlands or dragonflight this time around?

Not yet. DF got leaked about 6 days prior. We still have time, usually happens near the end of the days leading up to the reveal.