The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[PotHockets]

I think it's been long enough that it should be fine. Not to mention that you have two expansions whose impetus was time travel shenanigans. WoD obviously with Garrosh, but also Legion with Gul'dan. Both of those expansions came about because a time travelling orcs, and one of those is a contender for best WoW expansion.

I almost wonder if they wouldn't want another crack at a time travel expansion just to prove it can work. The biggest issue with WoD was the Garrison eating so much of their resources for WoD. Now though all the features are evergreen so they could devote the energy and effort to actual content and things to do instead of a one off system that negatively tinges everything else about the expansion that does work.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Dire Maul and Zul'amin aren't controlled by Ogres and Jungle Trolls along with various other minions?

trolls and ogres aren’t monsters.

Hell if you wait to say that they are then you can call goblins monsters as well.

Abandoned in terms of who originally built those locations. Not many Dwarves left in Grim Batol for example. The original builders of Dire Maul weren't Ogres.

the night elf’s who built dire maul are stil there you kill there prince.

Zul’aman literally has a trailer about how it’s always been there land and always will be there land, same with Shadowforge where the last boss is the king from the founding line.

So that’s still just grim botal.

Active in terms of modern denizens going there for general purposes, not to put their lives on the line and kill monsters. Undermine is similar to Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Ironforge, or any other major city.

That still applies to all of them but Grim batol, if they weren’t dungeons/raids we could have have visited any of them for diplomatic reasons.

Like the horde literally try’s that with Zul’aman and Zul’Jin tells them to sod off, the night elfs also do it with Dire maul and get the high bourn to rejoin them.

Tied to it via loose connection via racial history (Shadowforge City excluded). Gazlowe as a trade price is actually a part of the trade coalition that controls Undermine.

Malf/Tyranda personally exiled those in dire maul that’s not a lose connection.

All of the trolls saw Zul’Jin as a hero and wanted to work with him, the troll /charge is litteraly “For Zul’Jin”.

And Grim botal is the lost home of the wild hammers.

All of these citys out pace undermine in every category of relevance.

[Teriz]

They were gonna call the MOTHERLODE!!! Undermine originally which means that Blizz, if they ever add it, clearly intend it to be a Raid at most and much more likely just a dungeon.

If that was their goal, that would be the current name of the dungeon. More likely it was a hint of what's to come. Blizzard did something similar with Dark Rangers and Hunters in Legion.

[matijwow]

Wait, what's this now? I must've missed mention of this. He has new lines?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-old...e-lines-330479

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I genuinely can't tell if this is a joke or not lol. Why were there like 4 leaks while I was sleeping?

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For real though?

I am not Metzen. This was a joke, guys. If I really leaked anything I would get Doomhammered.

[Teriz]

trolls and ogres aren’t monsters.

Hell if you wait to say that they are then you can call goblins monsters as well.

the night elf’s who built dire maul are stil there you kill there prince.

If they're not playable races and want to kill you, then yeah, they're monsters.

And again, while NEs built the city, they no longer control it. Demons control the eastern part of the city, and Ogres control the northern part of the city.

Zul’aman literally has a trailer about how it’s always been there land and always will be there land, same with Shadowforge where the last boss is the king from the founding line.

So that’s still just grim botal.


That still applies to all of them but Grim batol, if they weren’t dungeons/raids we could have have visited any of them for diplomatic reasons.

Like the horde literally try’s that they Zul’aman and Zul’Jin tells them to sod off, the night elfs also do it with Dire mail and get the high bourn to rejoin them.

And once again, we're comparing hostile locations controlled by demons, ogres, jungle trolls, etc. to a city controlled by a neutral goblin trade empire that is a center of commerce and wealth on Azeroth.

All of these citys out pace undermine in every category of relevance.

In an underground expansion, how would any of these cities have more relevance than Undermine?

[Demonly]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-old...e-lines-330479

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I am not Metzen. This was a joke, guys. If I really leaked anything I would get Doomhammered.

Your image was really convincing, what AI program did you use for it? Asking for a friend. ;P

[Valysar]

[Raetary]

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1717224801310257249

New cinematic

[Wangming]

Indeed we just don't hear from the others enough and in time we forget them. Can't forget Greymane, he's everywhere.

There should be big moments when big characters show up, but mostly it's the smaller ones. I guess they do this after a sorts, it's just that the rest you stop remembering if they don't show up again. You might even never have met them if they're locked in a starting or levelling zone you've never done or only tried once.

You maybe forget them cause they aren't elves. But after Gilneas and Silverpine you also see most of them at the Battle of Darkshore and three of them (two if you don't count Tess) feature in Legion in the Class Order Halls Darius Crowley for Warriors and Celestine of the Harvest for Druids. Considering she is the first human druid we encounter (before she is changed) she is pretty bloody significant.

And while they havent turned Tess and Lorna show up pretty much everywhere Genn does. If the reclamation of Gilneas ever becomes a thing we will definitely see even more of them.

[lanerios]

You mean this source?



https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kezan

Here's the point; Undermine is a major lore location in Warcraft whether you personally like it or not. Saying that it has some "less than" status for "reasons" is a silly and dishonest take that makes no sense in a discussion about a potential underground expansion. There's a pretty close to zero chance Blizzard isn't going to include such a location in an expansion pretty much designed for such a location to exist. If you don't utilize Undermine, where else can you start such an expansion from that would make more sense than a civilized neutral location with loads of WC lore attached to it?

2010 is vanilla? Wow.. that's a new one. You and other claimed that Undermine was "promised" or "shown" in vanilla. So I am just wondering where your data comes from. 6 years later. Counting and interview from Cata as vanilla is just flat out wrong.

And what you claim Undermine to be is absolutely irrelevant. Blizzard has shown enough times they do not care what some random posters on a random forum think. They will do what they want. Not what you think people want. They can make it a hub, a small town like gadgetzan size, a dungeon, a raid, a pet battle arena, and PVP arena if they want. And if any players disagree? Tough luck.

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Yeah, cities or towns that were taken over by ghouls or demons. Undermine is under the control of the ultra wealthy Goblin trade coalition who we're not at war with and have never been at war with. Why would we have a dungeon where we're running through Undermine? It's a NEUTRAL location that works with both the Horde and the Alliance.

As far as we know.. we haven't seen anything from Undermine in years. You are assuming with outdated information. Good job!

[Dragon ANX]

What do you think of the 22mage22 leak?

I kinda dont believe it, but i would give it a 5 out of 10 in the "True Leak" scale.

[lanerios]

...Then it would just be like Gnomergan and Mechagon.

For once, maybe have an underground city that actually IS a city and not just some raid or dungeon.

Heck, for all we know, they could make the Undermine look like Wall Market from FF7 with interconnecting sections of the city and since there's Azerite underneath, have Gallywix run the whole city and use the Azerite like Mako.

Focus on the city aspect, rather than the underground aspect.

While they would be cool, people (some here included) would whinge and moan it's not Goblin enough, and keep whining about it.

[matijwow]

When you go back to the Black Empire during the leveling campaign (the specific quest is called Chromie Time), the Old Gods whisper to you. Most of them are reused, but what is distinctly N'zoth's voice has new ones



Since this takes place way in the past and the Void's deal is they see all possible outcomes, the common speculation is N'zoth got to narrow down which outcomes to look at, meaning he knew he would lose in BFA and planned around it.

Looking at the quotes again after seeing how DF played out (though we don't know the end of the Fyrakk fight yet), it seems like it's pretty close to just what happened in the expansion.

You will follow him to the deep places. The dark waters will flow in his wake.

We went to Deathwing's underground cave where he first heard the Old Gods. Dark waters could refer to the void, which is seen at the end of the raid.

With many eyes, they will see again. They will drink, and be uplifted.

Galakrond drank void-corrupted water (possibly decay corrupted too) and grew a bunch of eyes. Maybe it also means that the Aspects' new blessing will be void-corrupted too.

Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace.

Obviously this is about the tree.

Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Our dreams. Our song.

Besides the Emerald Dream, we see Azeroth's dream in the Legion quest "Whispers of a Shattered World" in which Azeroth has nightmares about the Old Gods and the Legion. This happens in the Titan chamber under Sholazaar where we can hear Azeroth's heartbeat.

[Ferlion]

trolls and ogres aren’t monsters.

Hell if you wait to say that they are then you can call goblins monsters as well.

the night elf’s who built dire maul are stil there you kill there prince.

Zul’aman literally has a trailer about how it’s always been there land and always will be there land, same with Shadowforge where the last boss is the king from the founding line.

So that’s still just grim botal.


That still applies to all of them but Grim batol, if they weren’t dungeons/raids we could have have visited any of them for diplomatic reasons.

Like the horde literally try’s that with Zul’aman and Zul’Jin tells them to sod off, the night elfs also do it with Dire maul and get the high bourn to rejoin them.


Malf/Tyranda personally exiled those in dire maul that’s not a lose connection.

All of the trolls saw Zul’Jin as a hero and wanted to work with him, the troll /charge is litteraly “For Zul’Jin”.

And Grim botal is the lost home of the wild hammers.

All of these citys out pace undermine in every category of relevance.

The Shen'drelar were not exiled by Malfurion and Tyrande. Their name is something like "The hidden ones". They were completely isolated from the rest of the Night Elves

[Raetary]

No new info, but damn the cinematic was good.

Love that they showcased everyone preparing at at the tree.

[Northelim]

I kinda dont believe it, but i would give it a 5 out of 10 in the "True Leak" scale.

And what are your reasons for not believing it? Just curious. I am very sus of it as well.

[matijwow]

Didn't say much, did it?

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1717224801310257249?s=20

Pretty cool monologue. I'm rooting for Fyrakk now.

[Teriz]

2010 is vanilla? Wow.. that's a new one. You and other claimed that Undermine was "promised" or "shown" in vanilla. So I am just wondering where your data comes from. 6 years later. Counting and interview from Cata as vanilla is just flat out wrong.

Blizzard originally wanted to include Undermine in the original World of Warcraft along with goblins as a playable race, with Johnathan Staats describing it as "tinker town" and "crazy". However, as the team did not have a lot of goblin art assets, building the goblin homeland would have required "a ton" of work, leading to both Undermine and playable goblins being cut from classic WoW.[15]

Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

Undermine also appears on multiple early WoW maps, including the globe at the end of vanilla WoW's CGI opening.

And what you claim Undermine to be is absolutely irrelevant. Blizzard has shown enough times they do not care what some random posters on a random forum think. They will do what they want. Not what you think people want. They can make it a hub, a small town like gadgetzan size, a dungeon, a raid, a pet battle arena, and PVP arena if they want. And if any players disagree? Tough luck.

See above.

[ercarp]

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1717224801310257249

New cinematic

I don't care much for Fyrakk as a villain or even a character, but cool cinematic nonetheless.

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No new info, but damn the cinematic was good.

Love that they showcased everyone preparing at at the tree.

That shot of Tyrande sharpening her weapon was a nice touch.

[Raetary]

Also, nice touch having the druids be the ones singing at the beginning.