The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Any source of that? Or you saw it on PTR?

It's one of the quests you get in the PTR yeah.

[Inxotep]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...w-3-april-2023

At the bottom it says april 7 - Blues News, what could this entail

[Eeram]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...w-3-april-2023

At the bottom it says april 7 - Blues News, what could this entail

its going to be new spec for evokers )))))))) For sure right!!!

[Wangming]

The fact that people actually believe in Pyromancers WoW shit sickens me...

I could literally put that dude in a pack regarding WoW lore lmaooo

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He should stick with FFXIV, as it is what he's good at.

Unless the dude works on his anger management issues, he won't be good at that for long. I mean he is very good at pissing people off. Generally yes, he has more success analyzing and predicting FFXIV lore, because he now can count of the lore being relatively retcon free and setup ending in payoff.

I have to admit that the Chronicles retcon still irks me—reframing what was initially marketed as an absolute, all-encompassing journal of Warcraft lore as in-universe propaganda was a rather daft move on Blizzard's part. Doesn't help that most of what was changed only was so for the sake of very underwhelming additions (i.e. Shadowlands and the First Ones).

As for the Pyromancer theory, I'm unfamiliar. Please enlighten me.

I'm with you on that. I had no illusions Chronicle would last as a definitive encyclopedia, but even I was surprised how little time it took for it to happen.

As for the Pyro theory: There is nothing to it really. It posits the question: "What if the Chronicle is all a lie and the Titans are the Void Lords" and goes from there. it is all a bunch of nonsense. I wasn't happy when Pyro started playing FFXIV, because we are passionate about our lore and story. Thankfully his controversial moments are his attacks against Blizzard, other streamers and his viewers. Not the lore.

Eh, that kind of depends on context. If we're talking about, say, a villainous character, what he meant may have been along the lines of how people hated Gul'dan in Legion—a "love to hate" sort of thing.

If you really want to look into it, sure. He isn't bad at plausible deniability. But anyway, we dwelt on it for too long. This isn't the why I dislike Taliesin thread. I have my impressions of they guy that I don't feel I need to justify to anyone. Nevertheless that Old God video of his is still interesting.

[Revamp Man]

5 old gods not counting the artificial one ghuun
We know 4 and based on art ysharj was essentially an orochi
Xal is heavily hinted at being the 5th and she's got a link with ashzara who's returning in 10.2

[Nymrohd]

Or "imprisoned", for that matter.

Still, I figure this line of inquiry isn't worth totally dismissing in spite of its lack of likelihood compared to Blizzard just not bothering rewriting a book without strictly vindicating its contents or an in-universe error.

The titans still went to the trouble to build a facility to contain the Heart of Y'shaarj. So in practice it was imprisoned (we never found out what the facility beneath Pandaria is called btw).

[Skildar]

I can't believe I am saying this, but Taliesin does bring up an excellent point in his new video. According to new sources, the Titans imprisoned five Old Gods. That number is important not only because we only know four by name (G'huun not included), but because technically only three were imprisoned. Y'shaarj was squished and while his body parts were hidden, he might not qualify as imprisoned. So we might be looking at six Old Gods (plus G'huun) on Azeroth.

I was surprised to learn through wowpedia that this number has been updated since 2006
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos Game_Manual
The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth#References

[Wangming]

I was surprised to learn through wowpedia that this number has been updated since 2006
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos Game_Manual
The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth#References

Yeah it was five first, then it went down to four, and now it is five again. How many Old Gods there are, and how dead they are has been pretty fluid over the years.

[Varodoc]

Why has no one here brought up the possibility that the Void Lords sent new Old Gods to Azeroth during the timeskip? The Old Gods on Azeroth have gotten very close to corrupting the World-Soul, but they have not quite achieved it yet, prompting the Void Lords to send out new Old Gods to aid them. N'Zoth came so close to corrupting the World-Soul, he only stumbled at the very end, so the Void Lords have sent more allies to aid him.

I will not be surprised at all when it will be revealed that new Old Gods have joined the fray, on top of the returning known ones. Alleria Windrunner even noted that she is hearing new whispers after N'Zoth's defeat.

Such an obvious thing to deduce, I must confess that I'm surprised no one here has yet brought up this possibility. Did we just randomly assume that the Void Lords stopped making Old Gods for whatever reason?

[Shadowferal]

Such an obvious thing to deduce, I must confess that I'm surprised no one here has yet brought up this possibility. Did we just randomly assume that the Void Lords stopped making Old Gods for whatever reason?

While such an assumption may be obvious, to bring it about writing-wise is clumsy imo. Such things should be eased into...an event or three to grease up the moment, yet keep things off-kilter so the moment is a bigger reveal than those guessing almost correctly...

[Nymrohd]

My understanding is that the creation of the Old Gods was not simple. The Void Lords can barely manifest in the physical realm and if they do it is moments before they are pushed back for lack of matter to consume. And the Old Gods are parts of them ripped and hurled in the emptiness of space. I don't think they could do that with any regularity.

[huth]

My understanding is that the creation of the Old Gods was not simple. The Void Lords can barely manifest in the physical realm and if they do it is moments before they are pushed back for lack of matter to consume. And the Old Gods are parts of them ripped and hurled in the emptiness of space. I don't think they could do that with any regularity.

Let's not forget that they basically threw them out at random as well. And a new Old God arriving on a world that has already dealt with them before might not exactly have the best survival chances.

[Varodoc]

My understanding is that the creation of the Old Gods was not simple. The Void Lords can barely manifest in the physical realm and if they do it is moments before they are pushed back for lack of matter to consume. And the Old Gods are parts of them ripped and hurled in the emptiness of space. I don't think they could do that with any regularity.

Yet we have seen countless Old Gods operating beyond Azeroth. Scrolls of Anzu mention that there were "Gods of the Deep" on Draenor, and there was at least one Old God who was trying to be summoned in Outlands. Shadowlands revealed that there was a planet that fell under the Old God, until the Night Warrior defeated it. Another world succumbed to the Old Gods and was destroyed by Sargeras. Several other planets can be seen under Old God control in the skybox of Telogrus Rift and also in the skybox of the Star Augur encounter from Nighthold:



Harbringer Skyriss even said "We span the Universe, as countless as the stars", which means that the Void Lords don't really have a problem churning out Old Gods. They have apparently created so many Old Gods that they and their insectoid minions are spread throughout the entire Cosmos, in very large numbers ("as countless as the stars").

Furthermore, the Void Lords' entire existence revolves around creating Old Gods to try and affect the Physical universe, so I don't know why they would suddenly stop making Old Gods.

People here should be more worried about the possibility that new Old Gods were sent to Azeroth during the 3 year timeskip. And Alleria Windrunner stated that she is feeling new whispers after N'Zoth's ""defeat"", "new voices joining the chorus", which could refer to new Old Gods being created in the direct aftermath of N'Zoth's defeat.

And people here also shouldn't forget that Old Gods are masters of death. They exist outside the cycle and each one of them has cheated death at least once. What if there were other minor Old Gods like Xal'atath, who were seemingly destroyed with no remains left, but actually found a way to cheat death?

[Nymrohd]

Let's not forget that they basically threw them out at random as well. And a new Old God arriving on a world that has already dealt with them before might not exactly have the best survival chances.

Yup, they pretty much masturbated all over the universe and if anyone got gooped, VLs got lucky.
And I'll keep pushing my theory that since the Old Gods are parts of the Void Lords, they may identify as such as well. So there may be multiple C'thun's in the universe and they are all part of the same Void Lord. Which would mean they are not truly dead because the greater part of them is still alive in the Void. Whichever Old God manages to take over a Void Soul, its Void Lord is the one that will manage to take over the World Soul to manifest.

[Varodoc]

While such an assumption may be obvious, to bring it about writing-wise is clumsy imo. Such things should be eased into...an event or three to grease up the moment, yet keep things off-kilter so the moment is a bigger reveal than those guessing almost correctly...

I mean, no one in this thread has guessed all of this yet so I'm pretty sure it would still be a big reveal, at least for these guys here.

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Yup, they pretty much masturbated all over the universe and if anyone got gooped, VLs got lucky.
And I'll keep pushing my theory that since the Old Gods are parts of the Void Lords, they may identify as such as well. So there may be multiple C'thun's in the universe and they are all part of the same Void Lord.

So do we just assume that Azeroth got insanely lucky and no other Old God happened to land onto Azeroth, besides the original "5"?

[huth]

So do we just assume that Azeroth got insanely lucky and no other Old God happened to land onto Azeroth, besides the original "5"?

Unlucky. Space is big. The VL got lucky to even get more than one hit.

[Foolicious]

So do we just assume that Azeroth got insanely lucky and no other Old God happened to land onto Azeroth, besides the original "5"?

Given the size of the warcraft universe the chance of more than one old god randomly hitting azeroth is basically zero. If anything we got extremely unlucky the planet got hit more than once.

[Soeroah]

You want FIVE raid tiers? What are the stats gonna be at the end, 50% haste from items alone?

I don't really care about raid tiers, personally.

The entire Nozdormu/Murozond patch could be the analogue to SL Season 4, where it makes the older raids of the expansion relevant again, with the outdoor content being updated via timestorms or some such nonsense where instead of fighting elementals we go through portals to alternate timelines for a while like the Argus portals.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why has no one here brought up the possibility that the Void Lords sent new Old Gods to Azeroth during the timeskip?

While possible it would be irrelevant to the book given that it was locked away on the isle for over 10 thousand years.

[Le Conceptuel]

Yeah it was five first, then it went down to four, and now it is five again. How many Old Gods there are, and how dead they are has been pretty fluid over the years.

I recall back in the olden days, when I was a fresh-faced autistic child, sperging over Old God speculation. Now, I'm a much more cynical autistic adult, sperging over how Blizzard mishandled the Old Gods. Things hardly change as much as they seem, don't they?

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Generally yes, he has more success analyzing and predicting FFXIV lore, because he now can count of the lore being relatively retcon free and setup ending in payoff.

It does help with analyzing and predicting the outcomes of stories when there is an actual story and the requisite foundations to tell one.

As for the Pyro theory: There is nothing to it really. It posits the question: "What if the Chronicle is all a lie and the Titans are the Void Lords" and goes from there. it is all a bunch of nonsense. I wasn't happy when Pyro started playing FFXIV, because we are passionate about our lore and story. Thankfully his controversial moments are his attacks against Blizzard, other streamers and his viewers. Not the lore.

Ah, that is a tad odd—I do actually like the idea of the Void Lords being a "reflection" of the Titans, or somehow being contingent on them to exist, but I think the idea of framing the Titans themselves as being the Void Lords is a bit nonsensical.

Nevertheless that Old God video of his is still interesting.

I will say that he is unique in his capacity to speculate in a way that makes it seem almost like the lore has any cohesion or sense, and like Blizzard themselves know where this is going.