The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Trazzle]

If anything, Undermine makes the most sense as a faction hub and base of operations for both Alliance and Horde as they descend deeper into Azeroth if not a central half-continent or continent in of itself.

Undermine would make for an epic faction hub!

Would love to see it fully realized.

[Wangming]

Night warrior Tyrande Tree Queen Goddess avatar - need no man to keep her going.

It's good she's getting spotlight.. but I don't like her doing druid stuff. That should be Malfurion or another Staghlem if Malfurion is "sleeping" yet again.

On the other hand she should have been in Naz'jatar, but wasn't. For some ungodly reason we were stuck with Jaina who probably never even met Azshara before.

[Selorian]

Why should the Darkspear leave their Island. Why shouldn't the Mag'har try to get Draenor Back?

Getting back to AU Draenor is nearly impossible. Our trip in the Mag'har recruitment was basically a one time thing, which is why the Lightbound didn't just follow us and try to take over our reality.

[Cheezits]

On the other hand she should have been in Naz'jatar, but wasn't. For some ungodly reason we were stuck with Jaina who probably never even met Azshara before.

That one makes sense: it would've been "another loss for Nelves" because she wouldn't kill Azshara and lose to N'zoth, so they saved her vs Azshara for later.

[Nightshade711]

You mean the lost city controlled by a psychotic gnome that wanted to turn all living things into machines? Yeah, you can do a mega-dungeon with that because you gotta stop that guy.

What does that have to do with Undermine?

Because Mechagon fulfills quite literally every niche that you talk about with Undermine, and even had more to offer than Undermine. Yet it was relegated to a dungeon.

1. Underground cosmopolitan metropolis linked to major characters.
2. Neutral hub for both factions (until Mechagnomes were recruited into the alliance)
3. Actually had valid reasons to go there (world ending threat)
4. Tinkers
5. Was a new creation so they could do whatever they wanted with it. Blizzard hasn’t liked returning to old lore locations as of recent, likely because of that. (See: Nazjatar, Crestfall, Kezan x2, etc)

[Mace]

They admitted that Malfurion is only gone because they didn't know how to balance him AND Tyrande as main characters for Nelves, so it's probably just "Tyrande main nelf for years, we are only using one big NPC per race because we think gen audience and players are dumb/they are dumb, so she is main nelf" regardless of lore and her lack of druidism.

Tirion and Arthas, I don't even know what was going on there.

I've noticed that trend. Rather expand the list of characters - i mean, it's not like this is a movie you have to pay for more actors if you get more characters. You take characters in rotation. But you don't use Khadgar all the time. I mean he shoudln't be showing up to do magic for Draenei or for Night elves - you shoud use a draenei mage or a night elf mage in their zones.

It's the same with NElves. I like Tyrande and Malfurion and Illidan and Azshara, but do they have to do EVERYTHING - what about Shandris these years? Broll Bearmantle? Naralax? Prince Farondis (great character), Mordent Evenshade, Maiev, Delas Moonfang, Altruis the Sufferer, Vanden, Kora, and Freaking JAROD Shadowsong, Mordant Evenshade, Lothrius Mooncaller, and there's more... list goes on, some great character, like Farondis -- all just disappear. At least they have 4 - Gnomes seem to have 2.

How many Worgen characters do we really know outside Genn Greymane? I can't even remember his son now, he was only used in their introduction

[Teriz]

Because Mechagon fulfills quite literally every niche that you talk about with Undermine, and even had more to offer than Undermine. Yet it was relegated to a dungeon.

1. Underground cosmopolitan metropolis linked to major characters.
2. Neutral hub for both factions (until Mechagnomes were recruited into the alliance)
3. Actually had valid reasons to go there (world ending threat)
4. Tinkers
5. Was a new creation. Blizzard hasn’t liked returning to old lore locations as of recent. (See: Nazjatar, Crestfall, Kezan x2, etc)

1. Mechagon was a lost city, it wasn't cosmopolitan, it was filled with mechagnomes.
2. It wasn't a neutral hub, it was a lost city found by the Horde and Alliance controlled by a hostile leader.
3. Blizzard could easily manufacture a "world ending threat" to make us venture to Undermine as well.
4. Again, Mechagnome tinkers. The Tinker's Union is in Undermine, and it's cosmopolitan.
5. It was a new creation to bring in Mechagnomes. Your second point is nonsense given that the expansion we just had takes place in the Dragon Isles, a conceptual location that's been floating around since Vanilla (just like Undermine).

[Selorian]

I've noticed that trend. Rather expand the list of characters - i mean, it's not like this is a movie you have to pay for more actors if you get more characters. You take characters in rotation. But you don't use Khadgar all the time. I mean he shoudln't be showing up to do magic for Draenei or for Night elves - you shoud use a draenei mage or a night elf mage in their zones.

It's the same with NElves. I like Tyrande and Malfurion and Illidan and Azshara, but do they have to do EVERYTHING - what about Shandris these years? Broll Bearmantle? Naralax? Prince Farondis (great character), Mordent Evenshade, Maiev, Delas Moonfang, Altruis the Sufferer, Vanden, Kora, and Freaking JAROD Shadowsong, Mordant Evenshade, Lothrius Mooncaller, and there's more... list goes on, some great character, like Farondis -- all just disappear. At least they have 4 - Gnomes seem to have 2.

How many Worgen characters do we really know outside Genn Greymane? I can't even remember his son now, he was only used in their introduction

Shandris just showed up in like, the only quest chain of 10.1.7. Farondis is cool but his main motivation is to free himself of the curse of undeath. I'm also under the impression he can't really leave Azsuna but that might be something I made up.

Genn's son is kind of dead. It was a big deal.

[Mace]

On the other hand she should have been in Naz'jatar, but wasn't. For some ungodly reason we were stuck with Jaina who probably never even met Azshara before.

I know right, that was so weird. It was like Tyrande's absence from TBC - hunting Illidan.. you play TFt then come to TBC the continuation and they are nowhere to be seen. Maiev shows up eventually, some tiny quest briefly in the zone, then in the closing cinematic to steal the kill. /roll eyes

Wtf.. did Jaina or Genn have to do with Zin'Azshari? Why wasn't it Tyrande or Malfurion - okay maybe they were busy with Darkshore - maybe, Azshara and old god is even more important - but hey Night warrior.. i get it... then what about Prince Farondis ? That Azsuna questline would make him perfect or Mordent Evenshade - didn't he lead the shen'dralar away from Azshara's overtures at the end of legion.. that was one of the reasons they sought their northern kalimdor kin.


Jaina was supposed to be injured after the Battle for Dazaralor - poor Mekkatorque is recovering. And you know what reason Danuser gave for Tyrandes absence in Naz'jatar - yes it was Danuser - he said Tyrande had already shown up once, they didn't want to use her again... erm.. EXQUISE MEE! JAINA? SYLVANAS? no trouble using them after their huge role sin 8.0, and in 8.1 raid.. but it's Tyrande that couldn't show up because she had been used.

pwoaaah.. he only cared about Sylvanas anyway, this is why Tyrande could gain the night warrior ritual that's supposedly so powerful and yet fail to beat 3 valkyr and Nathanos.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yeah, cities or towns that were taken over by ghouls or demons. Undermine is under the control of the ultra wealthy Goblin trade coalition who we're not at war with and have never been at war with. Why would we have a dungeon where we're running through Undermine? It's a NEUTRAL location that works with both the Horde and the Alliance.

The Motherlode was a dungeon because some greedy goblin robbed the dark irons and we had to get our hammer back, they can make any and all of undermine a dungeon/raid for any minor reason.

[Teriz]

The Motherlode was a dungeon because some greedy goblin robbed the dark irons and we had to get our hammer back, they can make any and all of undermine a dungeon/raid for any minor reason.

Again, you're talking about a major city controlled by a coalition of Goblins who value wealth above anything else. It's going to take more than a single greedy goblin with a hammer to make the trade coalition blow up its ties with the Alliance and the Horde.

Like I said, if you understand the lore behind Undermine, you quickly realize why simply it doesn't work as a dungeon.

[Sondrelk]

They admitted that Malfurion is only gone because they didn't know how to balance him AND Tyrande as main characters for Nelves, so it's probably just "Tyrande main nelf for years, we are only using one big NPC per race because we think gen audience and players are dumb/they are dumb, so she is main nelf" regardless of lore and her lack of druidism.

Tirion and Arthas, I don't even know what was going on there.

Tyrion they probably ignored because he is so similar to Uther.

I like to imagine Arthas was not shown in SL because the writers realized that he would inevitably come across as more likeable and worthy of redemption than Sylvanas.

[Nightshade711]

1. Mechagon was a lost city, it wasn't cosmopolitan, it was filled with mechagnomes.

Idk there were quite a bit of non-mechanized gnomes there.

2. It wasn't a neutral hub, it was a lost city found by the Horde and Alliance controlled by a hostile leader.

Strange because there’s a lot of horde/alliance people setting up camp in Rustbolt.

4. Again, Mechagnome tinkers. The Tinker's Union is in Undermine, and it's cosmopolitan.

I mean Mechagon even had a whole subprofession for called tinkering so.

Your second point is nonsense given that the expansion we just had takes place in the Dragon Isles, a conceptual location that's been floating around since Vanilla (just like Undermine).

You keep saying that Undermine is a “major lore location”. Just like Nazjatar & Kazan (ironically enough) were, yet both have gotten very minor parts in the game overall.

Whereas the Dragon Isles had basically no lore for it other than the giant old god temple before DF and was a whole new creation with the exception of the name.
Hell, even forgotten kingdoms like Balor had more lore than the Dragon Isles did.

[Well Done Steak]

Fuck it, I'm back on the boat of a Yrel lightbound invasion along side a void incursion with Titan spice thrown in.

The Tyr quest line is encrypted and will deal with us going to a different timeline where elisande is alive and has tyr's disk.

Going back in time to fight Elisande, who is extremely adept in time magic to the point of rivaling bronze dragons, will start a chain of events that'll pull Yrel and her army to our timeline to fuck shit up.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Again, you're talking about a major city controlled by a coalition of Goblins who value wealth above anything else. It's going to take more than a single greedy goblin with a hammer to make the trade coalition blow up its ties with the Alliance and the Horde.

Like I said, if you understand the lore behind Undermine, you quickly realize why simply it doesn't work as a dungeon.

It wouldn’t take any more then one greedy goblin.

All they would need to do is say one trade prince or another had been building power for years and is now trying to take over all of under mine, said goblin doesn’t like the alliance or horde either and Mabye has ties to venture Co so the other trade princes come to the allaince/horde for help retaking the city.

Boom under mine the raid.

[keelr]

I have huge hopium for new specs, instead of new classes. So much easier to build up a new spec for an existing base toolkit, also it way easier to balance it. It would be so refreshing to see some new specs on existing classes. They could be introduced like 1 or 2 at every major patch, starting with 11.0

[Nightshade711]

It wouldn’t take any more then one greedy goblin.

All they would need to do is say one trade prince or another had been building power for years and is now trying to take over all of under mine, said goblin doesn’t like the alliance or horde either and Mabye has ties to venture Co so the other trade princes come to the allaince/horde for help retaking the city.

Boom under mine the raid.

I mean this is essentially what they did with Azjol’nerub, and that is absolutely an area blizzard wanted to explore as a zone at first.
Yet it only became a few dungeons.

[Izalla]

The gameplay loop of grinding Azerite is why BFA is widely regarded as one of the most hated expansions. A lot of people also hated Teldrassil and not being able to rebel against Sylvanas/Nathanos/Evil Horde, as well as how N'zoth was handled at the end.

Zone and (most) lorewise I think a lot of people liked it a lot, but gameplay wise it was like the reverse of DF. Also the way the devs reacted to the hate for the plot basically tanked all communication between devs and players forever. Couple Blizzard devs got so upset they legitimately quit the company because of how players treated them (I can think of two notable ones).

See I didn't care about the gearing because I haven't raided since the end of MoP and dungeons are basically dead if you don't enjoy mythic+, which I don't. So azerite issues had no impact on my fun. I just think of how damn much effort they put into BFA and I feel so goddamn sorry for the devs. They have been treated as maliciously out to get the players or just downright incompetent and stupid while delivering their biggest effort yet. For example, I doubt we will ever see an expansion long cinematic series ever again.

I agree about N'zoth being wasted only if it turns out he didn't actually just trick us into preserving him in the dagger. Still waiting to see if that happens or not.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean this is essentially what they did with Azjol’nerub, and that is absolutely an area blizzard wanted to explore as a zone at first.
Yet it only became a few dungeons.

Ya and Azjol’nerub had a lot more time out into it then just being a classic/cata concept with a special mount already being made before they scraped the idea leaving parts in the files.

[Izalla]

Again, you're talking about a major city controlled by a coalition of Goblins who value wealth above anything else. It's going to take more than a single greedy goblin with a hammer to make the trade coalition blow up its ties with the Alliance and the Horde.

Like I said, if you understand the lore behind Undermine, you quickly realize why simply it doesn't work as a dungeon.

Blizz will do whatever they want. They could easily make a dungeon that is you chasing some enemies through an otherwise neutral city. You could even be trying to evade whatever thugs serve as cops in such a place because they are in the way of your goal. But whether it makes sense or not doesn't always stop Blizz from doing what they want to with anything. Frankly it's a joy when they follow through on what does make sense rather than putting a less logical spin just to change things up.