The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

"See above" or as what it really means "I don't want to discuss anything, I want to keep pushing my point"

You wanted a source, I gave you a source.

As for "Maps" and ingame stuff. You realise that during development things change right? That doesn't mean it's a real location.

Refer to the 2010 statement from the then creative director of WoW. Then refer to BFA where Goblins return to Kezan and indicate that Undermine is still there.

And again, we have no idea what the status of Undermine is. So claiming it can only be a city full of people who will accept the Horde/Alliance with open arms is just stupid. It can be whatever blizzard wants it to be.

Uh, that's always been how Undermine has been portrayed. It's a hallmark of the Goblin race, and it's a hallmark of the lore behind the location. It's silly to blatantly ignore those facts simply to be argumentative.

But enough of you dragging the thread off topic with more headcanon (Much like Tinker was). Until we know what the expansion contains, Undermine is as much as fairytale addition as Avaloren, China, Russia or Belgium.

Uh you're the one who brought this up in the first place.

[Dragon ANX]

So far the only thing that makes him seem better at this than other "leakers" is acknowledging he hasn't seen everything. People who stay to chat like to get caught up in the attention and answer every question. Acting like you're not totally certain what you saw and just not knowing all that much overall seems more genuine even if it is bullshit.

Yep, thats why i'm still giving him 5 out of 10, its just that my gut feeling didn't click with his leak.
So far the only leak for me that has high score is the one from diablo, even though it doesn't have bassically nothing, because of the context of that leak i'm giving that one a 8.5 out of 10.

[Izalla]

With the moonbeast mount got me thinking, we still haven't seen anything using that sun cat mount, right? Still curious, that.

Maybe it was purely to sell the idea of the trading post. They gave us a very unique and fancy one for the first reward to entice everyone the most.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Goblins are playable, and the Venture company is part of the same race as our playable Goblins.

So are trolls.

I do believe the point is that Stratholme was built and controlled by Humans until the undead overran it.

and it’s a weak point because the humans didn’t import the undead for food and not care that some where free ranch.

But they weren't. They were conceived to be hostile locations from the beginning.

just like undermine can be.

Again, it has never been conceived that way in any lore, and the Goblin race in general is neutral to players.

Nor were any of the other city’s other then Grim Batol.

Prior to wow Zul’aman was horde with the trailer even pointing that out, Dire Maul was just a night elf city with little lore just like undermine, shadow forge was a Romeo and Juliet story where the dwarfs wanted help to clear out there basement.

Except the original concept is still applicable in modern WoW since Goblins as a whole are still a neutral race and Goblin holdings are open to both factions (Booty Bay and Gadgetzhan). There is nothing justify or indicate that the whole of Undermine will suddenly become a hostile location. It's nonsense to argue that the location is going to be hostile when nothing in lore or concept points it in that direction.

it’s no more applicable then any of the other examples I listed because we don’t Know the current state of it.

And as I pointed out above nothing in the lore or concept pointed to the other city’s being hostile before they were added, but they all still were.

Except Grim Batol is a hostile location largely controlled by monsters and Shadowforge is an Alliance location hostile to the Horde. Undermine on the other hand is a neutral location that is both located underground and isn't hostile to either faction. How is that location less relevant than the examples you gave?

Grim Batol is the once home of the wild hammer clan, known for there gryphon riders and already have storm riders. Retaking there once home is an easy way to instantly show the similarities and kin ship between the current dwarfs and the heretic ones pointed at.

Shadowforge city is the birth place and home of the future king of all dwarfs who should be a couple years away from taking his rightful place leading all dwarf kind, if the new dwarfs are going to have strong ties with the existing ones he and his home will be incredibly relevant.

And then there’s what for goblins and undermine? Oh ya nothing at all but your mad hopes and the fact that they are underground.

[Izalla]

Yep, thats why i'm still giving him 5 out of 10, its just that my gut feeling didn't click with his leak.
So far the only leak for me that has high score is the one from diablo, even though it doesn't have bassically nothing, because of the context of that leak i'm giving that one a 8.5 out of 10.

Blizz breaks their patterns too often, and every year's leak seems to be different from the previous time (source, what actually leaks, how we get our hands on it), so at this point I am never really willing to stake my pride on anything. It's easy to dismiss ones with blatantly wrong info from people who don't know the lore well enough, but anything that isn't factually incorrect... well it's impossible to say really. Unless it's just a big long obvious wish list that Blizz could never actually do all of at once of course. Those are also easy to dismiss.

[Wangming]

Nope, not Zelda. It's a completely normal, regular name, he just got it from his favourite character in his favourite game.

I named our first one after a character from a book. Not a common name but nothing outlandish. Stupid Ed Sheeran named his daughter the same thing like a month before mine was born and the nurses recognized the name from that >=(

Ahh so you have two lucky daughters. Even better. I hope to have at least one as well, because when my little sister was born she really brought a lot of joy to our family. Thing is girls are very rare in my father's family. ANd I mean, only one in three generations. my older sister didn't make it. My younger..is actually a half sister. So the odds of me having a daughter are quite low.

[Rathwell]

(...) It's easy to dismiss ones with blatantly wrong info from people who don't know the lore well enough, but anything that isn't factually incorrect... well it's impossible to say really.

I had to eat my words with the Dracthyr last time around. I personally thought it was silly that they'd come up with a name so similar to the name of a big faction in the previous expansion (Venthyr) and just add a dragon prefix to it. Even after the actual screenshot leaks of them I was still skeptical because they looked so different from anything I'd expected from Blizzard if they were to make a dragon race. I'd have reckoned they'd gone with the bulkier Dragonsworn race.

Honestly this time around I'll just acknowledge my inability to discern what is and isn't a real leak and I'll just trust whoever has a history of accurately leaking before.


(I'll disregard anything that implies a full world revamp though, Blizzard isn't going to remodel like 40 zones)

[Dragon ANX]

Blizz breaks their patterns too often, and every year's leak seems to be different from the previous time (source, what actually leaks, how we get our hands on it), so at this point I am never really willing to stake my pride on anything. It's easy to dismiss ones with blatantly wrong info from people who don't know the lore well enough, but anything that isn't factually incorrect... well it's impossible to say really. Unless it's just a big long obvious wish list that Blizz could never actually do all of at once of course. Those are also easy to dismiss.

I agree, we had WoD internal Leak, DF logo leak, SL store leak and etc and that's why my aproach for every leak season is => Everything is false unto hard facts are presented like the "Algarian Stormrider", i'm always open minded to any new leak.

Note
I just have fun reading and imagining any xpac based on every leak, even the very obviouslly false.

[PotHockets]

I had to eat my words with the Dracthyr last time around. I personally thought it was silly that they'd come up with a name so similar to the name of a big faction in the previous expansion (Venthyr) and just add a dragon prefix to it. Even after the actual screenshot leaks of them I was still skeptical because they looked so different from anything I'd expected from Blizzard if they were to make a dragon race. I'd have reckoned they'd gone with the bulkier Dragonsworn race.

Honestly this time around I'll just acknowledge my inability to discern what is and isn't a real leak and I'll just trust whoever has a history of accurately leaking before.


(I'll disregard anything that implies a full world revamp though, Blizzard isn't going to remodel like 40 zones)

They don't need to revamp 40 zones if they go with megazones

[matijwow]

Feral Worgen.

Unable to wear armor or weapons. They'll exclusively wear loincloths chosen during creation screen and fight with their claws.

Could be interesting but they need to update the models.

[Rathwell]

They don't need to revamp 40 zones if they go with megazones

Care to elaborate on what you mean by mega zones?

I mean, Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor have a set number of zones no matter how we look at it. They can't just toss Desolace out the window (even if they may want to), so what would a mega zone entail? Just make some of the current zones be subsections of other zones? Because that does not sound like less work, it sounds like you'd just be changing how you categorize the zones

[PotHockets]

Care to elaborate on what you mean by mega zones?

I mean, Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor have a set number of zones no matter how we look at it. They can't just toss Desolace out the window (even if they may want to), so what would a mega zone entail? Just make some of the current zones be subsections of other zones? Because that does not sound like less work, it sounds like you'd just be changing how you categorize the zones

A megazone would be something like Elwynn, Redridge, Westfall and Duskwood all being the same zone.

[Rathwell]

A megazone would be something like Elwynn, Redridge, Westfall and Duskwood all being the same zone.

While they could do that, I don't see how it'd change anything. Certainly doesn't sound like less work. Even if you categorize all four listed as the same zone, you'd still have to model all four zones. Or do you mean that they'd scale it down, so that Elwynn, Redridge, Westfall and Duskwood would all fit in a zone the size of one zone, essentially shrinking the world?

[Mace]

A megazone would be something like Elwynn, Redridge, Westfall and Duskwood all being the same zone.

But they'd still cover the same area they do now...so it's just a re-categorisatio.


What would be nice instead was if they EXPANDED all the zones, double or more their sizes, so they're good for dynamic flying. They can always fill them with content over time. And once they do the base model, they can use AI to enlarge it.

[Raetary]

they can use AI to enlarge it.

No thank you.

[Kiivar86]

Maybe it was purely to sell the idea of the trading post. They gave us a very unique and fancy one for the first reward to entice everyone the most.

Sorry to confuse you, by sun cat mount, I meant the Sunwarmed Furline, not Ash'adar, Harbinger of Dawn.

[PotHockets]

While they could do that, I don't see how it'd change anything. Certainly doesn't sound like less work. Even if you categorize all four listed as the same zone, you'd still have to model all four zones. Or do you mean that they'd scale it down, so that Elwynn, Redridge, Westfall and Duskwood would all fit in a zone the size of one zone, essentially shrinking the world?

It's less work when you also take into consideration that they like doubled the dev team size and this is the first expansion with that new larger dev team fully up and ready to go all the way through.

Basically it just allows them to focus their new larger dev team better because time management is just about the most crucial resource so if there's less plates to spin and throw in that they've been doing asset work for a while now behind the scenes and it's really not that unlikely that we would get a revamp.

[Teriz]

So are trolls.

Two playable troll races on the horde say otherwise.

and it’s a weak point because the humans didn’t import the undead for food and not care that some where free ranch.

Human necromancers didn't purposely spread the plague to the people of Stratholme via grain?

just like undermine can be.

Except it's already been conceived.

Nor were any of the other city’s other then Grim Batol.

Feel free to link to Blizzard dev notes stating that Shadowforge, Zul'Aman, or Dire Maul ever being conceived as neutral, non-hostile cities that adventurers could go to.

And then there’s what for goblins and undermine? Oh ya nothing at all but your mad hopes and the fact that they are underground.

As stated before;

Blizzard originally wanted to include Undermine in the original World of Warcraft along with goblins as a playable race, with Johnathan Staats describing it as a "tinker town" and "crazy". However, as the team did not have a lot of goblin art assets, building the goblin homeland would have required "a ton" of work, leading to both Undermine and playable goblins being cut from classic WoW.[15]

Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.

Anything like that for the cities you mentioned?

[Izalla]

I had to eat my words with the Dracthyr last time around. I personally thought it was silly that they'd come up with a name so similar to the name of a big faction in the previous expansion (Venthyr) and just add a dragon prefix to it. Even after the actual screenshot leaks of them I was still skeptical because they looked so different from anything I'd expected from Blizzard if they were to make a dragon race. I'd have reckoned they'd gone with the bulkier Dragonsworn race.

Honestly this time around I'll just acknowledge my inability to discern what is and isn't a real leak and I'll just trust whoever has a history of accurately leaking before.


(I'll disregard anything that implies a full world revamp though, Blizzard isn't going to remodel like 40 zones)

I was dead sure the dracthyr riddle stuff was nonsense and the character creation picture looked ridiculous, but I wasn't willing to post the true extent of my disbelief in the thread just in case I was made a fool when they somehow were proven correct. Even then I'm pretty sure I made it clear I didn't trust Scaleface and didn't take the picture seriously. I was sooo sure it was someone having a laugh stringing the thread along for shits and giggles hahah.

[Woke it Up]

I do still wonder where the megazones idea came from as a bunch of conflicting leaks had them. The only benefit is having easier multizone quests, which only benefits people with flying and would wreck the world for new players.

Straight scaling even with "ai" is going to feel awful and arbitrary. And requires the entire continent to be rebuilt with twice the content at once. When they have only just reactivated scarlet monastery and routed dragon riding it seems unlikely anything is shifting.