The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[KurtMash]

My thought was it was so tropical in the northern parts because of the volcanic activity? IDK i'm not a geologist or anything.

Last I heard, Iceland was not a tropical paradise.

So yeah, I feel like Blizz just gave up on making the geography at least somewhat believable, which makes me sad

[Nymrohd]

Is Avaloren in this map? Or are we truly looking at an entirely new continent?

For what it's worth, the chronicle explicitly tells us that Kalimdor is just one of the continents.

[caliphax]

Last I heard, Iceland was not a tropical paradise.

So yeah, I feel like Blizz just gave up on making the geography at least somewhat believable, which makes me sad

Magic then, weird Dragony magic.

[Wangming]

This is something they will never achieve simply because they will reuse models anyway and the ratio will most likely be 1:9 newld. Elder Scrolls Online had the same issue where we venture to new lands yet there live the exact same animals as everywhere else because they did not create new models.

True. Granted, we are still in Tamriel. We have not yet gotten an Akavir expansion. Which I really want. Please!!

[Azalar]

this is basically the map of Zelda Breath of the Wild... with the lake being the hard-to-traverse-castle.
And there it works too...

Can you give me 3 reasons why this would be terrible from a level-design perspective?

Thematically yes, but Zelda maps aren't perfectly symmetrical, have a varied arrangement of terrain and aren't really a color wheel.

The main issue with that AI map is its shape and navigation. Having areas arranged in a circle is troublesome and even if it looks simple, it causes disorientation issues. Many people resorted to a compass weak aura or addon to navigate through Oribos because it was one hell of a mess.

Another issue is that their shapes are circular sectors. This kills any real variance in the zones, because you already know beforehand how the area is going to be like geographically when you're exploring. Ideally when you explore a new land, you want to cause players to find new stuff, new shapes, new terrain... not just some mountains in a self-contained space.

Zone boundaries are very clearcut (this is not only an issue in this map, but in whole WoW because of the theme park zones yada yada), even more so than in modern WoW. they tried to fix that in DF and they did it quite well imo.

But please don't get me wrong! If that particular shape is justified it can work, but it is quite a design challenge to make it do so, so more than often than not it's best to just avoid it. Another example, Zereth Mortis worked fairly better than Oribos. Yes, it was still a circle and had different biomes in each axis, but navigation was much better in between them and it didn't feel as such.

[Nymrohd]

Shows off a lot more character than the "leaked" image

The hardest thing to create a proper model off is a building. It's just vastly more involved than making a few custom rocks (which could simply be existing rock models that are somewhat manipulated) or through the right sfx on top of existing models.

- - - Updated - - -

This is something they will never achieve simply because they will reuse models anyway and the ratio will most likely be 1:9 newld. Elder Scrolls Online had the same issue where we venture to new lands yet there live the exact same animals as everywhere else because they did not create new models.

ESO is just cheap with new assets period. Which makes sense given how much time is spent creating assets for sale (housing) so they don't have the dev time for actual creatures. I'll say this, Blizzard is not at all lazy in that regard. The only time I felt they truly dropped the ball was Nightborne.

[Jaggler]

Last I heard, Iceland was not a tropical paradise.

So yeah, I feel like Blizz just gave up on making the geography at least somewhat believable, which makes me sad

Geography and Climate never made sense in WoW to begin with, tbh.

[FuujCraft]

Just for reference, these are shorts of the more recent announcement trailers. They look nothing like the leaked ones.

[Shadowferal]

Shows off a lot more character than the "leaked" image

Kinda makes me "homesick."

[Raetary]

Last I heard, Iceland was not a tropical paradise.

So yeah, I feel like Blizz just gave up on making the geography at least somewhat believable, which makes me sad

Wows geography has never been believable.
It was always vastly different biomes smooshed together.

Sometimes justified by magic, other times we get stuff like Stranglethorn directly bordering on Elwynn.

[Merryck]

Geography and Climate never made sense in WoW to begin with, tbh.

Doesn't really matter since the elements are controlled by intelligent forces rather than purely natural processes.

[Cherry123]

Well, this is fake or F2P content

[micwini]

<images of all feature trailers>

Yep. All of them have a backdrop that is representative for the continent/world/zone. You could remove the text and know what area it was. Even before the content was announced you would be able to say "yo, that looks like Kul Tiras!" just from the image.
Great point, as the Avaloren one is just a random pine foresty area.

[KurtMash]

It wasn't perfect, but before Dragonflight it was still somewhat passable. Cold Northrend in the north, getting frostier the more north we go. Kalimdor and EK Getting more tropical towards the south (or generally drier in case of Kalimdor) and more temperate towards the north. The difference in climate of Kalimdor and EK could be explained with ocean currents / rainshadow (compare Atacama dessert and Brasil) - it does not make perfect sense with the placement of mountains, but at least zones with a similar climate were grouped together.

[Darkarath]

Well, this thread has reached the point of madness that we all knew that was coming when the leak happened.

I really like the idea of Avaloren for 10.3 and something else for 11.0. Sadly, we know that it is highly unlikely.

I feel that we might get something today to carry the hype through the weekend. BTW, does someone has a summary of War of the Scaleborn? Because I am guessing that the few bits that come from the Warcraft forum does not cover all the book.

[Samin]

Is Avaloren in this map? Or are we truly looking at an entirely new continent?

While there is no actual definitive mention of Avaloren being beyond the western storms, right now everyone assumes it is - so no, Avaloren is probably not part of Ancient Kalimdor, it's a separate original landmass

[Pheraz]

Just for reference, these are shorts of the more recent announcement trailers. They look nothing like the leaked ones.
...

Ah thanks!
I was just about to request this ^^

Yeah, I think we are looking at a very well made, hand-crafted fake leak.
The only other option is that they DRASTICALLY lowered their standards or we are looking at 10.3 (IMO, both very unlikely)

[Nymrohd]

Yep. All of them have a backdrop that is representative for the continent/world/zone. You could remove the text and know what area it was. Even before the content was announced you would be able to say "yo, that looks like Kul Tiras!" just from the image.
Great point, as the Avaloren one is just a random pine foresty area.

Also, they are aware that most of the time the most impressive visual in a zone will always be the architecture. Which is absent in those images.

[Scaleface]

We need @Scaleface take on this leak.

By sources: Nothing so far here. And I cannot confirm or deny. Screens we had with purple themes stuff are deleted since monday, and nothing new showed.

About screens You asking (with Avaloren and that "ogre/dwarf":

Personally, I think these screenshots may be real. Writing about the fact that something has assets from previous expansions doesn't make much sense in my opinion - because, as we all know, developers like to use and improve old models, so why not this time?
Similarly, the conversation about the fact that the font used in "AVALOREN" text has a certain glow and not another, or shadows etc... Well, it does, so what?
Just remember how the Dracthyr models were shown and many people ridiculed them that it was impossible for them to be real - and we all know how it ended

It may turn out that the screenshots we had were fake as I mentioned few posts before (all of them has been deleted in last monday) - and personally it's sad for me, because I'm still believing in a "dark" themed expansion. I am not too good into lore, but as I know there is still a lot of material that can be used for additional expansions or patches like Undermine, Karesh. Undermine was in plans years ago.

On the other hand, it would also be sad if we receive "4 locations, 4 dungeons, 1 raid" again, because as some may remember an interview on 4chan (if I remember good) with one of the developers (it doesn't matter if it's real or not, but the words about people are real in the gaming industry) - people will buy it anyway because it's World of Warcraft they love and they want to check new expansion. So such model of expansion can be every time...

After all these years, and considering that the expansion will be for the WOW 20th anniversary - it should really be something big. And personally (although in a small percentage) I still believe that it will be something great and not just a filler to tick off profits. Like it looks by that screens...

For now, I am analysing everything like You all. Even sources.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

Thematically yes, but Zelda maps aren't perfectly symmetrical, have a varied arrangement of terrain and aren't really a color wheel.

The main issue with that AI map is its shape and navigation. Having areas arranged in a circle is troublesome and even if it looks simple, it causes disorientation issues. Many people resorted to a compass weak aura or addon to navigate through Oribos because it was one hell of a mess.

Another issue is that their shapes are circular sectors. This kills any real variance in the zones, because you already know beforehand how the area is going to be like geographically when you're exploring. Ideally when you explore a new land, you want to cause players to find new stuff, new shapes, new terrain... not just some mountains in a self-contained space.

Zone boundaries are very clearcut (this is not only an issue in this map, but in whole WoW because of the theme park zones yada yada), even more so than in modern WoW. they tried to fix that in DF and they did it quite well imo.

But please don't get me wrong! If that particular shape is justified it can work, but it is quite a design challenge to make it do so, so more than often than not it's best to just avoid it. Another example, Zereth Mortis worked fairly better than Oribos. Yes, it was still a circle and had different biomes in each axis, but navigation was much better in between them and it didn't feel as such.

Yet most zones in WoW, like Zandalar, Kul Tiras, the Broken Isles or Outland have all been similar; just rougher shapes.

Also, killing the variety because you know the shape beforehand? In every zone, we know the shape beforehand if you look at the map. This doesn't prevent the designers from adding variety. And " (...) not just some mountains in a self-contained space. " = essentally EVERY zone. We know the outline and everything in there is all contained in that zone.

This AI example is just more along the lines of Zereth Mortis, which you also described as a good example.

All the arguments you give, fall flat because this applies to the current zones as well.