The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

That's showing that she has non-Black abilities, which we already established is insufficient as proof.

Again, you don't have to show that she has non-Black abilities. You have to show that she has access to everything.

This is silly. Again, Emberthal’s image is used on the Evoker class page for a reason;

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...classes/evoker

Why would Blizzard use an image of a non-Evoker as an example of an Evoker?

[huth]

This is silly. Again, Emberthal’s image is used on the Evoker class page for a reason;

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...classes/evoker

Why would Blizzard use an image of a non-Evoker as an example of an Evoker?

Because she's an important character to the class. Again, this isn't proof and at best circumstantial evidence.

[Nathanyel]

Evokers can equip 1h and 2h Axes, Swords, and Maces. Being able to use 2h weapons is weird for a caster class.

Tbh that alone is a rather neutral point, might be just a reason to have more caster 2Hs that aren't Staves.
Caster 2H Axes and Swords were previously only useable by Paladins, for Maces and Polearms Druids entered the pool as well.

Going a bit off-topic, giving weapons only one mainstat is a really antiquated system, especially with Transmog around. Caster weapons having less DPS than melee weapons of the same iLvl is a relic of Prot Paladins needing on them - in TBC.

I say normalize weapons, let everyone utilize weapon types they can use, gaining Agi, Str or Int+SP respectively, or no mainstat (and also change 1Hs so that one item is enough to fill you hands and open up some weapon types, but I digress)

[Teriz]

Because she's an important character to the class. Again, this isn't proof and at best circumstantial evidence.

So let's recap;

She's in a cinematic utilizing all 5 dragon essences.
She's part of the black dragonflight Weryn, but can still use abilities from other weryns.
She's showcased in the Evoker class profile on WoW.com.


What exactly is your definition of an Evoker? I thought it was a Dracthyr that can use the powers of the 5 dragonflights? Emberthal fits that criteria completely.

- - - Updated - - -

Tbh that alone is a rather neutral point, might be just a reason to have more caster 2Hs that aren't Staves.
Caster 2H Axes and Swords were previously only useable by Paladins, for Maces and Polearms Druids entered the pool as well.

Going a bit off-topic, giving weapons only one mainstat is a really antiquated system, especially with Transmog around. Caster weapons having less DPS than melee weapons of the same iLvl is a relic of Prot Paladins needing on them - in TBC.

I say normalize weapons, let everyone utilize weapon types they can use, gaining Agi, Str or Int+SP respectively, or no mainstat (and also change 1Hs so that one item is enough to fill you hands and open up some weapon types, but I digress)

Merely pointing it out in context of Emberthal and the Evoker class;

She's an Evoker, but unlike the other Evokers (Sarkareth and Viridia) we can't emulate her weryn's powers.
She has a unique skin color that playable Dracthyr can't use.
She is shown using 2H weapons which Dracthyr can't use, since we have no weapon skills.

We're clearly missing a third Evoker spec here.

[huth]

So let's recap;

She's in a cinematic utilizing all 5 dragon essences.
She's part of the black dragonflight Weryn, but can still use abilities from other weryns.
She's showcased in the Evoker class profile on WoW.com.

What exactly is your definition of an Evoker? I thought it was a Dracthyr that can use the powers of the 5 dragonflights? Emberthal fits that criteria completely.

Wrong.
In the Cinematic, she only uses one essence, Blue.
The requirement is still all abilities, not some. You lack any evidence whatsoever for use of Green or Bronze abilities.
The last one is circumstantial evidence at best and not really all that meaningful. Curiously, it's one of only two classes that even shows a specific character, and the other is also different from the proper class.

"Not at all" is not "completely". Your evidence is way inferior to the standard of proof required for your claim.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

But you can still stop this derailment at any moment.

This is an astounding look into Teriz's psychology. It's even stranger to observe given that he is probably right in this particular context, which is unusual.

[huth]

This is an astounding look into Teriz's psychology. It's even stranger to observe given that he is probably right in this particular context, which is unusual.

And he still can't manage to provide valid proof of it.

[Teriz]

Wrong.
In the Cinematic, she only uses one essence, Blue.

Emberthal is shown here in the cinematic wielding prismatic fire, which is only possible when you wield all five dragonflight powers.

The requirement is still all abilities, not some. You lack any evidence whatsoever for use of Green or Bronze abilities.

See above.

The last one is circumstantial evidence at best and not really all that meaningful. Curiously, it's one of only two classes that even shows a specific character, and the other is also different from the proper class.

Which is irrelevant. The point is that Blizzard used Emberthal as an example of an Evoker on their website. Obviously because she IS an Evoker.

"Not at all" is not "completely". Your evidence is way inferior to the standard of proof required for your claim.

Compared to your evidence which amounts to "nu uh"?

[huth]

[img]

Emberthal is shown here in the cinematic wielding prismatic fire, which is only possible when you wield all five dragonflight powers.

Last i looked, that's not even a real ability Evokers use. For all we know, that could be something any Dracthyr can do at will when they need to light a room.
Evokers mastered all 5 essences. Basic access is just a built in feature of being a Dracthyr however.

I really don't think you even understand what you need to show, which is why you keep failing at it.

See above.

See what? She's not demonstrating any capability to use Green or Bronze abilities. Yes, you do need to actually show her being able to make Emerald Blossoms and all that.

Which is irrelevant. The point is that Blizzard used Emberthal as an example of an Evoker on their website. Obviously because she IS an Evoker.

Yes, it's irrelevant. That's the point. What you think she is has no importance. You also failed to adress the issue with using it as even that minor piece of evidence, that being that the only other established character used is not themself actually an example of the class, so no, it is not obvious.

Compared to your evidence which amounts to "nu uh"?

You need to show evidence. Not me. I'm just refuting your claim. If you claim things without evidence, nu uh is actually a viable response.

[Teriz]

Last i looked, that's not even a real ability Evokers use. For all we know, that could be something any Dracthyr can do at will when they need to light a room.
Evokers mastered all 5 essences. Basic access is just a built in feature of being a Dracthyr however.

So now ALL Dracthyr are capable of using the power of all 5 flights? That's what you'd have to have in order to be able to produce a prismatic effect.

Also do Evokers really exist in your mind since they haven't mastered the Black dragonflight essence, thus making them NOT masters of all 5 essences?

I really don't think you even understand what you need to show, which is why you keep failing at it.

The only thing clear here is that you continue to shift goalposts because you've been proven wrong multiple times.

See what? She's not demonstrating any capability to use Green or Bronze abilities. Yes, you do need to actually show her being able to make Emerald Blossoms and all that.

Producing a prismatic effect does show the capability of using Green or Bronze abilities.

Yes, it's irrelevant. That's the point. What you think she is has no importance. You also failed to adress the issue with using it as even that minor piece of evidence, that being that the only other established character used is not themself actually an example of the class, so no, it is not obvious.

Oh, you're one of those people who think Chen Stormstout isn't an example of a Monk. Sorry I wasted my time.

[Nymrohd]

There is no black dragonflight weyrn. None of the weyrns are aligned to a specific flight. Three of them are different words for black ffs. Stop quoting him so I don't have to be exposed to this, I am too old to burn brain cells at this rate.

[Makorus]

I wish I had so much confidence that I could be incorrect day after day without feeling the slightest bit embarrassed.

[8bithamster]

So now ALL Dracthyr are capable of using the power of all 5 flights? That's what you'd have to have in order to be able to produce a prismatic effect.

Also do Evokers really exist in your mind since they haven't mastered the Black dragonflight essence, thus making them NOT masters of all 5 essences?



The only thing clear here is that you continue to shift goalposts because you've been proven wrong multiple times.



Producing a prismatic effect does show the capability of using Green or Bronze abilities.



Oh, you're one of those people who think Chen Stormstout isn't an example of a Monk. Sorry I wasted my time.

You already have a thread for this drivel.. Please keep it there and stop detailing this topic.


To get back on topic. It really feels like the thin gs we will find in aberrus, and other places will lead to other places of azeroth. Other areas that will teach us more about the void and such.
And no teriz.. I don't mean another evoker speech about some screenshot and boss ability. There is a lot more to aberrus than some headcanon.

[Teriz]

There is no black dragonflight weyrn. None of the weyrns are aligned to a specific flight. Three of them are different words for black ffs. Stop quoting him so I don't have to be exposed to this, I am too old to burn brain cells at this rate.

You’re caught up in semantics. I’m not talking about the names of the weryns. Im talking about what weryns do, their leaders, and what they represent in terms of Evoker specializations or faction.

Sarkereth and the Ebonscales represent the Devastation spec. Viridia and the Healing Wing represent the Preservation spec. Emberthal and the Obsidian Vigil represent whatever third spec the Evokers used to have, and that specialization would be black Dragonflight based.

The other two represent the horde and alliance factions respectively.

Hopefully that’s clear enough for you. I wouldn’t want you to lose anymore brain cells.

[micwini]

I think the evoker third spec could be a spec you choose for another class (select ones of course). So you could pick frost mage or fury warrior as your third spec for example.

[Teriz]

I think the evoker third spec could be a spec you choose for another class (select ones of course). So you could pick frost mage or fury warrior as your third spec for example.

A microcosm of the Druid class? That’s an interesting concept.

[Nymrohd]

I think the evoker third spec could be a spec you choose for another class (select ones of course). So you could pick frost mage or fury warrior as your third spec for example.

Dude I facepalmed so hard it left a red mark on my face. How would that ever work? Please tell me it is sarcasm and I rolled a 1 on Sense Motive?

[Raetary]

To change the topic, how do we feel about about the direction Blizzard is taking wows magic system?

They now established a difference between Order and Arcane magic and implied a difference between Life and Nature in the Al'gethar dungeon.
Which irks me quite a bit.

Differentiating between Nature and Life, while it certainly could make sense, it's entirely redundant.

And with 'Order magic' being a thing, it puts Arcane in this weird position.
It got stripped of its status as 'the' magic aligned with Order and now just kinda exists in this place of it being weirdly tied to the titans, but also not.

It's also really weird, when the other forces don't have these splits within their spheres.
Death, Light, Void and Fel do not have those seperated magic types.

Death just flat out doesn't, as we just learnt all we could about it.
And even if we did mindlessly seperate the rest, because we definitely could as we do have the canon vocabulary to do that (e.g Light/Holy, Fel/Disorder), they would be even more redundant than the Life/Nature thing is.

[huth]

Dude I facepalmed so hard it left a red mark on my face. How would that ever work? Please tell me it is sarcasm and I rolled a 1 on Sense Motive?

Very very poorly, given that you'd be missing the entire class tree and it'd be impossible to balance.

[Nymrohd]

To change the topic, how do we feel about about the direction Blizzard is taking wows magic system?

They now established a difference between Order and Arcane magic and implied a difference between Life and Nature in the Al'gethar dungeon.
Which irks me quite a bit.

Differentiating between Nature and Life, while it certainly could make sense, it's entirely redundant.

And with 'Order magic' being a thing, it puts Arcane in this weird position.
It got stripped of its status as 'the' magic aligned with Order and now just kinda exists in this place of it being weirdly tied to the titans, but also not.

It's also really weird, when the other forces don't have these splits within their spheres.
Death, Light, Void and Fel do not have those seperated magic types.

Death just flat out doesn't, as we just learnt all we could about it.
And even if we did mindlessly seperate the rest, because we definitely could as we do have the canon vocabulary to do that (e.g Light/Holy, Fel/Disorder), they would be even more redundant than the Life/Nature thing is.

I don't know how they could really order a magic system after the fact. In fantasy settings, magic systems are among the things writers tend to establish very early on. And with WoW we have three layers; the language used up until Chronicles, the game terminology and then the language used after Chronicles (which is fairly unstable).