The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

On top of what Ersula posted, there is of course Murmur too, when it comes to sound at least.

There's also the First Ones. It seems sound is actually a rather potent force in the 'verse.

[huth]

I... that is literally what a Bard is. They channel magic using instruments and their voice in the form of songs, shouts, and whispers.

Let's not forget that the modern equivalent of Bard is Entertainer, either. Both are rather wide and loose terms.

[Dracullus]

One of the reasons why I don't believe these leaks is because there really isn't any features attached to them and sometimes they give random lore explanations for why some things are a certain way.

DF gave us dragon riding, profession revamp, talent revamp, and new way to engage with battle with empowerment, a new class in Evoker and a new support spec mid expansion.

What would you guys like to see as features in the next one?

Yeah, it's funny people have so little imagination that they expect DF 2.0 both in story and gameplay, while literally every single expansion had significant changes both in mechanics and tone.

Imo whole point of DF being so (relatively) peaceful was because people were completely tired with end-of-the-world scenarios after Legion, N'zoth and Jailer. So yeah, I fully expect change here and even expac becoming too edgy for many, just like WoD after MoP.

Second thing is repairing/improving existing mechanics. I don't think we will have deep changes here, people simply like or accept most gameplay stuff, since literally 99% complains are about DF theme. What I would like to see is:

a) account-wide professions, reputations, transmog - truly account wide, not like Renown
b) droping timer for lower M+
c) simplyfing rated PVP to solo que arena and solo que battleground and focusing all attention/fixes there
d) introducing something similar to open raid (anyone remember that? it's been 84 years...) but official or expanding communities (no cap, some ranking/reputation system, etc.)

Of course I don't expect to see it all, some are personal preference and/or risky. And I doubt Blizzard will do risky gameplay decisions now.

Hard to predict good new feature, we are paying Blizzard to do that, but I think it's time to try housing. And later gather feedback and expand it for expac where we hopefully return to old world. Also game right now need more solo challenges.

[Ersula]

lol. anything in those photos using music magic, or expressing any sort of gameplay foundation for bard? Instruments existing =\= bard

You're showing your ignorance. Besides ETC being a playable HOTS characters, Russel & Winslow do have the opportunity to be combat companions in the Boralus Incursion & Necrolord Maw Invasion respectively, with special music based attacks.

Besides bards being the only core D&D class that isn't currently represented in WoW, again I point out Evoker didn't need to be based on established game mechanics.

Though I do really love the concept of another NPC in the Necrolord Maw scenario: An Apothecary who turns into a hulk-like creature from a potion to fulfil a tanking role. That's a decent idea for a class in addition to the Apothecaries in the Darkshore Warfront who helps allies by throwing vials.

[Chickat]

For Pandaria and DI I agree, but for SL hardly (and I am not that big of a fan of SL, but we did know way more about it and even technically visited it before, we just didn't know much of the hierarchy, eternal ones and such).
But the thing still remains that those locations existed in game lore for way more than a year before they were announced as expansion zones, and weren't created specifically for the expansion purpose. While if Avaloren is the next continent, we only found out about it in the expansion where we go there. (And all "hints" before were just refering that there might be something else on azeroth, keeping it vague not to keep it a secret, but so they can make up whatever when the time comes).

I dislike more the idea of it being the next expac from a worldbuilding standpoint, where its just like in a TTRPG campaign in a homebrew world it just sucks if a town/kingdom/dungeon/whatever is created just for the next story arc and was never mentioned before the lead up to that Arc.

I mean people have been begging for the other side of Azeroth for years and we were never going to get a lot of info on that side of the planet before we get there. Seems like y'all are wanting another xpac instead which is fine (I do too) but if Avaloren labeled as the other side of Azeroth came after SL people would have been hyped.

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You don't really need to detect an AI on this image lol, this is the least Blizzard (especially modern Blizzard) image in this thread

Yeah. Even if it wasn't AI its still clearly not a Warcraft cinematic.

[Nymrohd]

I mean people have been begging for the other side of Azeroth for years

They have been? I think people have been debating that something must exist there, not so much about how much they want to go there.

[Chickat]

If this render looked more like this, it would be more believeable.

You jest, but theres someone out there who would want that lmao.

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Hope to god its fake, terrified its real

I mean id rather it be fake too but we dont have nearly enough information from 4 screenshots to write an entire expansion off. It could have killer features, gameplay, and content. Give us legion or better levels of content and i think people could forgive samey zones even if they would prefer something more unique.

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If these are real I think the first image is from the trailer. The other 3 might also be from the trailer, but they look more like presskit images. In any case: A feature trailer is normally around 2-3 mins long, so it would contain more if its real.
I think 4 zones is little, but not out of the question at the same time. It also depends on the size and the variety within the zones themselves.

It also depends on features. 4 zones is small but if you also include a world revamp it becomes more than acceptable.

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Am I the only person that thinks that having Avaloren doesn't necessarily mean that we won't have a world revamp as well? I mean just think about Cata where we had both a revamp and new zones. Would be a fitting amount of content for the 20th anniversary.

Yes, agreed.

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They have been? I think people have been debating that something must exist there, not so much about how much they want to go there.

Ive seen a lot of buzz about it? Maybe im misremembering idk. Im not confident enough in my statement to argue my case.

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Avaloren aside for a second.

Let’s say we do get a complete out of left field expansion, and it’s somewhere like Tel’Abim, K’aresh or Undermine as their own fleshed out continent, not just a zone but done like Kul Tiras, Zandalar and the Broken Isles. How do you separate the zones? What do you do with them?


My hope/idea for Tel’Abim at least would be - I’d have the following zones. A Central Asia/Indian inspired jungle. A desert zone along the lines of the Middle East; and it would be in perpetual darkness/starlight with lots of hidden caves of wonder, ruins beneath the sand. A city zone of which would be the WoW version of Agrabah. A tropical coastal styled zone.

I’m sure @Teriz has a cool idea for Undermine. I’d like to see it similar to Nuka World from Fallout 4.

Tel abim could be middle eastern Aladin themed. Lots of genies and magic. Beautiful golden domed palaces. Etc.

[Worldshaper]

That was all there is to it this year. There was nothing really to bite our teeth it. Especially with AI idk man, worst year ever for me. I didn't care anymore.

Got to say, at first I thought GOD you are annoying, but you were actually bringing the whole thing to life with your excitement and your theories, hats off you to. It would have been even better if we had more to do. Anyway thanks.

Thank you!

I am a rather annoying person sometimes, because I can sound full of myself. It gets worse over the Internet of course.

But I'm also suuuuper passionate about this stuff (and all of my hobbies, really).

[KyleEverett]

You have to remember the last 2 expansions had 4 levelling zones. BfA technically had 3 levelling zones per faction, Legion had 4 levelling. 3-4 Levelling zones has kinda been their thing since Legion.

[FelPlague]

I mean, Evokers weren't based on existing game mechanics.

1- thing is none of them are doing anything magic with their music, that is like saying we should add an "accountant" class, cause there exists a mage in dalaran who is also an accountant.
They are musicians, but they are not doing anything "magic" with their music. the first guys are not doing anything magical with their music, but use magic to enhance their visuals.
second guy is literally just a random dude playing music, its not some magic thing.
third is a death knight, again normal music, but enchanced with magic. it is not "music with magical effects" its "music, but I happen to also be able to use magic"

There is a difference between.
play a song, and cast a fireball to make fireworks to make stuff look cool
and play a song, that casts a fireball.

2- evokers were based on existing game mechanics, there was evokers before dragonflight, but they were mages who mixed multiple types of magic together to create unique outcomes, the evoker from dota 2 was named such for that exact reason, and kaelthas was an evoker.
evokers were also based on the chromatic dragonflight, which Nefarian's attempt to do what his father did, by mixing all the flights together into one dragon that can use multiple/all magic types.

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On top of what Ersula posted, there is of course Murmur too, when it comes to sound at least.

That was not the "magic of sound" that was from the soundwave.
sound is a PHSYICAL thing.
a loud enough sound can make a shockwave, and that is what murmur did, made a sound so strong it literally blew up.

music in wow is not inherintly magical, I think we have yet to see it ever in such, but it is very much possible, but its not like its "sitting right there already, just not playable"


bards play music which has a magical effect.
the "bards" ersula shows, 2 of which literally are just... random people playing music. the other 2 are just people who play music, who happen to also have magical powers. they are using them to enhance their music, not the other way around.

Again there is a difference between
playing a song, and that song makes something cool happen
and playing a song, but using magic to make something cool happen to go along side the music.


Like when you go to a concert and the lights go along to the music, do you think the music is making the lights change? no, the lights are seperate, and being changed to "enhance" the music.

[J Street]

You have to remember the last 2 expansions had 4 levelling zones. BfA technically had 3 levelling zones per faction, Legion had 4 levelling. 3-4 Levelling zones has kinda been their thing since Legion.

I think players need to let go of expectations for amount of zones in my opinion. If an expansion comes out and the landmass is as large as the broken isles or dragon isles, who cares how many zones it has. As long as it's diverse and interesting, get rid of the arbitrary zone borders all together and make it a single huge isles sized zone for all I care. If Blizz erased the borders on the dragon isles map, would players think of it any different? The border lines just making people think they're getting less/more psychologically, even if the size of a landmass is identical lol

[Nymrohd]

I think players need to let go of expectations for amount of zones in my opinion. If an expansion comes out and the landmass is as large as the broken isles or dragon isles, who cares how many zones it has. As long as it's diverse and interesting, get rid of the arbitrary zone borders all together and make it a single huge isles sized zone for all I care. If Blizz erased the borders on the dragon isles map, would players think of it any different? The border lines just making people think they're getting less/more psychologically, even if the size of a landmass is identical lol

Zones are mostly storyline units. There are some expectations; each zone will feature a major storyline that will have at least one major race (and do world building towards that), you expect a town with local vendors for the main reputation/renown and since Legion you also expect each zone to have its own world boss. It goes down the line like that; there are many things that are zone specific. More zones means more of all of those.

And then there is also the expectation of size. Is Avaloren just an island or is it supposed to be a continent? If it is supposed to be a continent, having it be of similar size to the Dragon Isles makes it underwhelming. They should come up with a gimmick to keep some areas from being explored early on and make it much larger (by making all patch zones simple extensions of the continent like e.g. Tanaan was)

[J Street]

Zones are mostly storyline units. There are some expectations; each zone will feature a major storyline that will have at least one major race (and do world building towards that), you expect a town with local vendors for the main reputation/renown and since Legion you also expect each zone to have its own world boss. It goes down the line like that; there are many things that are zone specific. More zones means more of all of those.

And then there is also the expectation of size. Is Avaloren just an island or is it supposed to be a continent? If it is supposed to be a continent, having it be of similar size to the Dragon Isles makes it underwhelming. They should come up with a gimmick to keep some areas from being explored early on and make it much larger (by making all patch zones simple extensions of the continent like e.g. Tanaan was)

Fair enough to the first portion, that's valid I can concede to that.

Regarding size and continent/island. You said a continent the size of dragon isles would be underwhelming, but isn't Dragon Isles quite literally the size of the continents? Like wasn't a major focus the fact that the dragon isles was the same size as northrend? Or am I just a clown

[Nymrohd]

Fair enough to the first portion, that's valid I can concede to that.

Regarding size and continent/island. You said a continent the size of dragon isles would be underwhelming, but isn't Dragon Isles quite literally the size of the continents? Like wasn't a major focus the fact that the dragon isles was the same size as northrend? Or am I just a clown

It is in game (which is why the continents need a size update in a revamp. Dragon Isles with Zaralek and Emerald Dream are very close to the size of Kalimdor . . .
They are definitely changing the level of scale with every new xpac. But coming from an area that is supposed to be an island into something that is supposed to be a continent soon after, it would feel weird for it to be of the same size.

[Nyel]

30 pages over night, again. Anything new or people just talking about Avaloren again?

[Baedril]

30 pages over night, again. Anything new or people just talking about Avaloren again?

There was a new 'Storms of Avaloren' leaker trying to expand on the text/image/website leak, with the guy actually answering questions in the thread.
Also, there was a opening ceremony times announcement with a pretty big gap between that and the next panel after, so there was some speculation about a new game announcement getting a secret panel.

[Hitei]

1- thing is none of them are doing anything magic with their music, that is like saying we should add an "accountant" class, cause there exists a mage in dalaran who is also an accountant.
They are musicians, but they are not doing anything "magic" with their music. the first guys are not doing anything magical with their music, but use magic to enhance their visuals.
second guy is literally just a random dude playing music, its not some magic thing.
third is a death knight, again normal music, but enchanced with magic. it is not "music with magical effects" its "music, but I happen to also be able to use magic"

There is a difference between.
play a song, and cast a fireball to make fireworks to make stuff look cool
and play a song, that casts a fireball.

2- evokers were based on existing game mechanics, there was evokers before dragonflight, but they were mages who mixed multiple types of magic together to create unique outcomes, the evoker from dota 2 was named such for that exact reason, and kaelthas was an evoker.
evokers were also based on the chromatic dragonflight, which Nefarian's attempt to do what his father did, by mixing all the flights together into one dragon that can use multiple/all magic types.

Both of these are wrong.

There are a fair number of musicians who do actively do magic with their music. The other bard Russell , Signe, Zor'lok, Winslow, and Chi-Ji, as well as Kyrian and their Mawsworn fallen kin, the latter of who use music to debuff and the former who build all sorts of musical instruments to purify or attack their enemies (hence all the music/sound based spells: Echoing Reprimand, Divine Toll, Resonating Arrow).

Nothing about evokers is based on existing game mechanics. This is hugely dishonest. First, the point of Evokers isn't combining magic, it's being able to wield multiple flights magic, their spells literally go from chromatic to focusing on a single color. Already this comparison isn't really accurate. Second, the dota character (I don't know why you'd bring this up when dota was just made up custom game shit) is Invoker. Evoker isn't someone who mixes magic outside of DotA (which again, is Invoker). It's just a general term for a spellcaster, e.g. the entire basic "do damage" school of D&D magic being Evocation.

[Raetary]

.
A support "spec" doesn't fit the WoW mold for group content, especially when they already have it's core essence built into pre-existing classes.

We just recently got a support spec added to the game, and it both works just fine and was quite well received.

[Nymrohd]

Nothing about evokers is based on existing game mechanics. This is hugely dishonest. First, the point of Evokers isn't combining magic, it's being able to wield multiple flights magic, their spells literally go from chromatic to focusing on a single color. Already this comparison isn't really accurate. Second, the dota character (I don't know why you'd bring this up when dota was just made up custom game shit) is Invoker. Evoker isn't someone who mixes magic outside of DotA (which again, is Invoker). It's just a general term for a spellcaster, e.g. the entire basic "do damage" school of D&D magic being Evocation.

I will say, Invocation was used in a warcraft setting to refer to dragons before, and that was Hearthstone. That is the flimsiest of connections though

[dadori]

Good time to be back, i guess !