The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Berkilak]

I think reshifting Order from "Arcane" to "the power that uses Arcane to order things" was a good idea in lore, even if people don't like how Order sounds. It effectively frees up Arcane to really be the "building blocks of the universe" it is in old lore while giving the Titans more to do than just be plain jane Good Boy Gods. Also brings into question what entities like Aluneth actually are, which to Blizzard's credit is a modern WoW mystery that still hasn't been solved even while Elune gets explained.

Additionally it makes Order vs Chaos more interesting because they are two factions using the same exact power in different directions. Versus "guys using the good stuff vs bad guys using the bad stuff".

That's all well and good. My issue comes from our characters having inherent knowledge of any of these distinctions.

[huth]

The terminology used to describe it?
The way the magic is differentiated within the game?

That's about as big as what we saw in Shadowlands. You're blowing this way out of proportion.

Chronicle trying to affix arcane which was all about being chaotic and was only different from fel by degrees rather than by nature prior into being the tool of Order never made much sense. It nixed arcane as a whole being corruptive and made a whole lot of plots dubious, not helped by how it was no longer a factor in luring the Legion as that's now based on the worldsoul. Dragonflight is only muddying this further by the nomenclature change which may or may not amount to anything.

You're mixing things up there. Arcane wasn't described as chaotic, just corrupting. Last i looked, that was never explicitly removed, it just doesn't get much attention anymore. And what made it dangerous was it allowing the Legion to find Azeroth, which they otherwise couldn't do. It wasn't Arcane in and of itself that made them interested in Azeroth. It was just the signal that allowed them to get there. Which naturally stopped being relevant after Legion.

You're all getting your headcanon stuck in this.

[Nathanyel]

And with 'Order magic' being a thing, it puts Arcane in this weird position.
It got stripped of its status as 'the' magic aligned with Order and now just kinda exists in this place of it being weirdly tied to the titans, but also not.

I feel the other way around, it felt weird that "Arcane" was previously shoved into an Order-aligned category, when before that (and apparently again now) it was rather a kind of 'neutral' magic, not ordered, not chaotic, not life, not death, just raw power. The energy of the Twisting Nether, the space between the worlds of reality.

Yes, the Titans use it heavily, but that to me ties into the theory that World Souls/Titans are not inherently Order-aligned. The Titans we know visited Zereth Ordis, but they weren't born there. They seeked it on their own volition and/or were invited, they chose Order as their primary alignment (with Freya also dabbling in Life)

[Berkilak]

Agreed to an extent. Sometimes things being TOO vague or mysterious can also harm a story. Look at SL, it revealed a lot, sure, but it was also very fucking vague for no reason.

Because they put all their cards on the table. Any hint or suggestion of something more was strictly that - their actual cosmological design document was contorted into a "narrative." It's weakness was not where it was vague, but where it was detailed.

I'm sure there's an alternate universe out there where they told a story in the realms of death that didn't involve constant exposition that completely demystified the setting before you could even try to immerse yourself in what should have been an inherent sense of wonder... but that's not our universe.

It's kind of funny. If they had kept their cosmology as close to their chest as they did their characterization and narrative motivation, and actually delivered us a relatable story in a cosmic setting, Shadowlands would be remembered very differently. They inverted basic storytelling tenets.

[Makorus]

The worst thing any developer can do to their fictional universe is release a "lore bible" type thing.

Name one franchise that was enriched by something like Chronicles and not outright ruined, I'll wait.

[Nightshade711]

You're mixing things up there. Arcane wasn't described as chaotic, just corrupting. Last i looked, that was never explicitly removed, it just doesn't get much attention anymore. And what made it dangerous was it allowing the Legion to find Azeroth, which they otherwise couldn't do. It wasn't Arcane in and of itself that made them interested in Azeroth. It was just the signal that allowed them to get there. Which naturally stopped being relevant after Legion.

You're all getting your headcanon stuck in this.

Arcane absolutely used to be described as chaotic.
There are even things in-game to point to this like in BC & Wotlk.

[Berkilak]

The worst thing any developer can do to their fictional universe is release a "lore bible" type thing.

Don't get me wrong - they absolutely should have a lore bible. But as you say... "release" is the cardinal sin with these documents. It should remain in-house.

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Name one franchise that was enriched by something like Chronicles and not outright ruined, I'll wait.

Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was the only one able to pull it off.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They don't need to overexplain Magic, its Magic for a reason. The whole schools of magic and types thats fine it stretches the field. Explaining how it works? Nah not needed

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Chronicle trying to affix arcane which was all about being chaotic and was only different from fel by degrees rather than by nature prior into being the tool of Order never made much sense. It nixed arcane as a whole being corruptive and made a whole lot of plots dubious, not helped by how it was no longer a factor in luring the Legion as that's now based on the worldsoul. Dragonflight is only muddying this further by the nomenclature change which may or may not amount to anything.

I'm watering a withered plant, but one could theoretically suppose that Arcane is an innate force of nature which Order is required to subjugate. In this instance, Arcane would be something like the residual background radiation from when the Light and Void clashed to create the universe (assuming that we're not going all-in with the Zereth system), and it could be harnessed through Order, thus allowing it to strictly align with Order in spite of its inherently chaotic nature, vindicate it being a kind of pipeline to Fel magic, and keep it distinguishable from the actual Cosmic Force of Order and its products. Alternatively, Mana could be that product, whereas Arcane is the product from refining it with Order magic—it could also be harnessed by other forces to a limited extent—Death magic interacts with it to create Necromancy, for instance, or Chaos to create Fel.

Another alternative is that Arcane magic is the residue of Titans, tracing Azeroth's veins.

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Isn't the whole shtick with Arcane that you are taking inherently chaotic energies and ordering them? The corruptive aspect was that you were near the chaotic energies and that you could lose control over them, which led to Fel once you effectively gave up controlling the energies.

This could also be sensible, and would feed well into the idea of Arcane being unstable in spite of its alignment with Order.

[Berkilak]

I'm watering a withered plant,

That's how I feel whenever I get the hint of a desire to speculate about WoW lore. I don't care about the minutiae anymore. I don't care because the writers themselves showed that they don't. I can't invest passion into something that the creators themselves haven't put any of their own into.

Alternatively, I could simply be getting old and can't relate to the young folk. But I don't think it's that. I think this is the rare case where unadulterated cynicism has the right of it.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That's how I feel whenever I get the hint of a desire to speculate about WoW lore. I don't care about the minutiae anymore. I don't care because the writers themselves showed that they don't. I can't invest passion into something that the creators themselves haven't put any of their own into.

Alternatively, I could simply be getting old and can't relate to the young folk. But I don't think it's that. I think this is the rare case where unadulterated cynicism has the right of it.

I'm in a peculiar state of superposition—on one hand, I am young, and thus eager. On the other hand, my idiotic young brain was entirely molded by Warcraft III, so I am also cynical about the prospects of WoW's future. In that spirit, I am trapped between the two, and indulge in both vicariously.

[Catastrophy349]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/scaleco...ch-10-1-332395 Let's discuss this.

[Black Rider]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/scaleco...ch-10-1-332395 Let's discuss this.

Somehow reminds me Nighthold room...
btw
did you guys see this?
https://twitter.com/Qwik/status/1645086011003916290

[Marlamin]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/scaleco...ch-10-1-332395 Let's discuss this.

Absolutely gorgeous environment design.

[Raetary]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/scaleco...ch-10-1-332395 Let's discuss this.

Definitely looks really really good.
I'm a sucker for anything floaty with dark and starry skyboxes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thats a lot of Void influence there, I wonder what the consequences will result after Sarkareth's death.

[Cheezits]

I wish they had created a new void creature (this part of the raid shows it's really just voidwalkers and the ghosts from WOD at this point) but I know it doesn't really fit in the expansion to justify.

[Sondrelk]

Absolutely gorgeous environment design.

That specific pure void aesthetic always looks stunning. Would love to get a raid themed even more heavily on it, rather than lesser forms like Old Gods.
Corrupted fleshy tendrils is cool and all, but nothing like that amazing astral theming.

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I wish they had created a new void creature (this part of the raid shows it's really just voidwalkers and the ghosts from WOD at this point) but I know it doesn't really fit in the expansion to justify.

There is the Chrono elemental mob which looks amazing, though that one has already been used in the Azure Vault, so it might be a bit too close to reuse again.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/scaleco...ch-10-1-332395 Let's discuss this.

I'm rather tired of the old gods/void. They're as overexposed as the Titans are, and their aesthetic aren't interesting like the Legion was.

[Gurahk]

I'm rather tired of the old gods/void. They're as overexposed as the Titans are, and their aesthetic aren't interesting like the Legion was.

And when WoD/Legion was current, people were complaining about the Legion aesthetics.