The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Moth Preacher]

I think players will choose convenience over the speed boost. Ok, I don’t think so, I’m absolutely sure about it. But we’ll see. I know the moment I can use normal flying I never ever will go back to Dragonriding and those ugly ass mount models.

They'll definitely make Dragonriding compatible with different models and creatures tho

[Raetary]

I think players will choose convenience over the speed boost. Ok, I don’t think so, I’m absolutely sure about it. But we’ll see. I know the moment I can use normal flying I never ever will go back to Dragonriding and those ugly ass mount models.

Yeah no, after experiencing Dragonriding, static flying feels absolutely atrocious and slow.

People aren't gonna abandon the trippled flight speed.

[Nymrohd]

Meanwhile me losing interest in it because it's not deep / varied enough...

I really had hoped they'd kept expanding on it with every content patch after I maxed out all the profession talent trees...

That would make it impossible to catch up though.

[Moth Preacher]

Personally can't wait for even faster Dragonriding. Why stop at 900% when can do 1800%?

[Marlamin]

Yeah no, after experiencing Dragonriding, static flying feels absolutely atrocious and slow.

People aren't gonna abandon the trippled flight speed.

It'll be a matter of preference, I know people who will speedrun pathfinder and people (including myself) that can't wait for dynamic flight in the rest of the world.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah professions are massively overdesigned right now. There were lots of good ideas with the rework, but they never should have had the quality system for example

The quality system is what makes profession skill matter. Without it, the entire profession talent system falls apart.

[Auxis]

So, I was reading a Wowhead article about a scythe dropping in Black Rook Hold. And a commenter mentioned something about an axe dropping from M+ Dargul in Neltharions lair but I cannot find anything about an axe. Anyone know what they are on about?

For reference, this is the exact comment (plus the comment they were replying to):

"Unfortunately, Howling Echoes does not currently appear on the loot table for any other difficulty."
I don't think any of the weapons added to the legion dungeons have dropped outside of M+. Actually I think there's only been the two hand axe from Dargrul in neltharion's lair

[Sondrelk]

Massive amounts of negative feedback for M+? World Quests? Not everything was borrowed power. Warfronts did not flop because of Azerite, they flopped because blizzard made no effort to improve upon them. War Mode was largely a success.
There were systems that flopped. But there was still ambition behind them. The constructive feedback behind those systems was that they needed significant iteration. What Blizzard received was to abandon them?

I don't think there was any legitimate way to fix Warfronts or Islands without just making new content reusing the assets.

You were not going to be able to fix Island expeditions, simply because the problem was the entire conceit of a scramble for Azerite. You could reuse the islands for some other kind of content, but you couldn't somehow tweak the opposing player team out.

Same with Warfronts. You could make it more difficult, as they did. But Warfronts failed because they wanted to emulate the feel of an RTS, and that was always impossible when the content was designed to accommodate 30 players at once.
You would have needed to scrap basically the entire thing, making not just two NPCs for each player required for the last boss, but five or six.
You wouldn't just need to fight a big wave of enemies. You would need to somehow make it so you could create static defences that made repelling enemy attacks possible at all.

[Makorus]

After collecting Halloween Buckets, I can't believe how awful old flying feels.

[NjornHammer]

Saying that Warcraft is in maintenance mode is oblivious to what maintenance means for a live service game i.e. bug fixing and stability, no new content.

But you can absolutely say that Warcraft is not treated as a Star but at best as a Cow by the company. Legion and BfA were extremely ambitious expansions with massive land masses, extremely impactful stories and a truly vast array of ambitious new content. BfA more so than Legion; in BfA they experimented with an insane spectrum of new content from Island Expeditions with smart mobs to Warfronts and Arathi Rumble pvp with only AI opponents to Visions of N'zoth. This is the ambition behind a star product where the devs believe they can broaden their market

Dragonflight is the complete opposite. The story has minimal ambition, there are almost no new game systems (or iteration on previously tested systems) and almost all of the dev time has gone to polishing BASE systems.
If Dragonflight is a one-off, an expansion where dev time was focused on polishing those Base systems so there is a stronger base for new additions or for increased scope in content, that's OK. But if Dragonflight is followed by an expansion that pretty much has a copy of the same roadmap then that means the company is just milking the game.

First off, "massive land masses" is an interesting thing to claim with Legion and BFA specifically since those expansions were known for having more condensed zones, especially with the Broken Isles. I remember perusing this exact forum with complains about how everything felt on top of each other and too close with no open space compared to WoD Draenor, Northrend, or Pandaria. They addressed this with the Dragon Isles (although I would enjoy even more open space personally).

Second, they also addressed this whole idea of "new and innovative" ideas saying that they were going with a modular approach of a system being developed soley for that expansion. This started with the bare-bones Pandaria Farm, then you get the WoD Garrison, and then finally, they jump feet first into the modular design with Legion, BFA, and SL systems. Players lost their god damn minds and so they tried to react to that criticism with Dragonflight by going back to the basics. DF builds a solid base-line revamp of the UI, talent system, and basic PvE systems with some additional focus on outdoor content and Mythic+ rotation. Now, they can build on that with evergreen innovation rather than the modular shit.

AND NOW, people are judging the SYSTEMS of the next expansion based on four fucking images that may or may not be real. I think they probably are, and if they are, they look kind of cool. But the meat isn't known. No systems, no updates, nothing. And yet, people are saying the game has lost all this prestige that Legion and BFA had???? I've been reading these forums since Cata got leaked here, and it's actually insane the mental leaps and cycling of doom you see with posts like this.

I made a fake leak this expansion round because I thought it was fun, but god damn is this leak season especially depressing with the vitriol and misinformation just going around (ironic, I know, since this post is kind of vitriolic and I made a fake leak). Anyways, WoW isn't the same as it was, but it isn't dead nor dying. People begged for a return to the basics. Now, people are begging for new and innovative systems. And then when they come out, they'll complain that it isn't truly Warcraft. And then they'll beg for a return to basics.

WoW is different to everyone. Some want the 'Hair-metal' vibe of the 2000s era of Warcraft. Others want the more competitive and stream-lined focus of the 2010s. And now you have fans that are really focused on the collection side and more 'feel-good' vibes that are popular in pop-culture. You even have a few who are persistent that their specific race in WoW is what truly makes the game special (Undermine fanatics, Night-elf fascists, Forsaken genocide deniers, Orc fetishists). And that's all cool. WoW will never have one defining trait. But if you're going to criticize the game, which the game needs and thrives on, at least be factual and do so in good-faith rather than jump at whatever buzz words or concepts you can.

[Nymrohd]

It'll be a matter of preference, I know people who will speedrun pathfinder and people (including myself) that can't wait for dynamic flight in the rest of the world.

I get why people will want the old flight system (for gathering and hovering) but I struggle to see how they will feel good about it once they experience the speed difference while playing. After missing the third rare in a row because they are moving at a third of the speed of everybody else, they'll switch to dynamic.

[Nyel]

Yeah professions are massively overdesigned right now. There were lots of good ideas with the rework, but they never should have had the quality system for example

I‘m pretty sure they’ll massively trim it down in the next expansion, again. That’s why I didn’t list it as one of the lasting features from Dragonflight.

[Floot]

That would make it impossible to catch up though.

Well, considering the DF crafting incorporated pretty much every system which they abandoned in previous expansions, it basically being a reworked borrowed power system (similar to artifact / anima power), it would've made perfect sense for the crafting system to be the one place where persistent players could get rewarded.

It's the ideal place to throw all the "hardcore" elements of gameplay in, since it was designed as a platform on which "elite" crafters could proliferate themselves.

[Taurelius]

First off, "massive land masses" is an interesting thing to claim with Legion and BFA specifically since those expansions were known for having more condensed zones, especially with the Broken Isles. I remember perusing this exact forum with complains about how everything felt on top of each other and too close with no open space compared to WoD Draenor, Northrend, or Pandaria. They addressed this with the Dragon Isles (although I would enjoy even more open space personally).

Second, they also addressed this whole idea of "new and innovative" ideas saying that they were going with a modular approach of a system being developed soley for that expansion. This started with the bare-bones Pandaria Farm, then you get the WoD Garrison, and then finally, they jump feet first into the modular design with Legion, BFA, and SL systems. Players lost their god damn minds and so they tried to react to that criticism with Dragonflight by going back to the basics. DF builds a solid base-line revamp of the UI, talent system, and basic PvE systems with some additional focus on outdoor content and Mythic+ rotation. Now, they can build on that with evergreen innovation rather than the modular shit.

AND NOW, people are judging the SYSTEMS of the next expansion based on four fucking images that may or may not be real. I think they probably are, and if they are, they look kind of cool. But the meat isn't known. No systems, no updates, nothing. And yet, people are saying the game has lost all this prestige that Legion and BFA had???? I've been reading these forums since Cata got leaked here, and it's actually insane the mental leaps and cycling of doom you see with posts like this.

I made a fake leak this expansion round because I thought it was fun, but god damn is this leak season especially depressing with the vitriol and misinformation just going around (ironic, I know, since this post is kind of vitriolic and I made a fake leak). Anyways, WoW isn't the same as it was, but it isn't dead nor dying. People begged for a return to the basics. Now, people are begging for new and innovative systems. And then when they come out, they'll complain that it isn't truly Warcraft. And then they'll beg for a return to basics.

WoW is different to everyone. Some want the 'Hair-metal' vibe of the 2000s era of Warcraft. Others want the more competitive and stream-lined focus of the 2010s. And now you have fans that are really focused on the collection side and more 'feel-good' vibes that are popular in pop-culture. You even have a few who are persistent that their specific race in WoW is what truly makes the game special (Undermine fanatics, Night-elf fascists, Forsaken genocide deniers, Orc fetishists). And that's all cool. WoW will never have one defining trait. But if you're going to criticize the game, which the game needs and thrives on, at least be factual and do so in good-faith rather than jump at whatever buzz words or concepts you can.

Slay queen

[Sondrelk]

So, I was reading a Wowhead article about a scythe dropping in Black Rook Hold. And a commenter mentioned something about an axe dropping from M+ Dargul in Neltharions lair but I cannot find anything about an axe. Anyone know what they are on about?

For reference, this is the exact comment (plus the comment they were replying to):

I think they added a lava axe to his loot table. The same recolour as the one you get from Island expeditions, which itself was a recolour of a drop from Heart of the Mountain in Blackrock Foundry.

[Nymrohd]

First off, "massive land masses" is an interesting thing to claim with Legion and BFA specifically since those expansions were known for having more condensed zones, especially with the Broken Isles. I remember perusing this exact forum with complains about how everything felt on top of each other and too close with no open space compared to WoD Draenor, Northrend, or Pandaria. They addressed this with the Dragon Isles (although I would enjoy even more open space personally).

Second, they also addressed this whole idea of "new and innovative" ideas saying that they were going with a modular approach of a system being developed soley for that expansion. This started with the bare-bones Pandaria Farm, then you get the WoD Garrison, and then finally, they jump feet first into the modular design with Legion, BFA, and SL systems. Players lost their god damn minds and so they tried to react to that criticism with Dragonflight by going back to the basics. DF builds a solid base-line revamp of the UI, talent system, and basic PvE systems with some additional focus on outdoor content and Mythic+ rotation. Now, they can build on that with evergreen innovation rather than the modular shit.

AND NOW, people are judging the SYSTEMS of the next expansion based on four fucking images that may or may not be real. I think they probably are, and if they are, they look kind of cool. But the meat isn't known. No systems, no updates, nothing. And yet, people are saying the game has lost all this prestige that Legion and BFA had???? I've been reading these forums since Cata got leaked here, and it's actually insane the mental leaps and cycling of doom you see with posts like this.

I made a fake leak this expansion round because I thought it was fun, but god damn is this leak season especially depressing with the vitriol and misinformation just going around (ironic, I know, since this post is kind of vitriolic and I made a fake leak). Anyways, WoW isn't the same as it was, but it isn't dead nor dying. People begged for a return to the basics. Now, people are begging for new and innovative systems. And then when they come out, they'll complain that it isn't truly Warcraft. And then they'll beg for a return to basics.

WoW is different to everyone. Some want the 'Hair-metal' vibe of the 2000s era of Warcraft. Others want the more competitive and stream-lined focus of the 2010s. And now you have fans that are really focused on the collection side and more 'feel-good' vibes that are popular in pop-culture. You even have a few who are persistent that their specific race in WoW is what truly makes the game special (Undermine fanatics, Night-elf fascists, Forsaken genocide deniers, Orc fetishists). And that's all cool. WoW will never have one defining trait. But if you're going to criticize the game, which the game needs and thrives on, at least be factual and do so in good-faith rather than jump at whatever buzz words or concepts you can.

I will say this. I am never talking about people. I am always talking about my own opinions and perception of their content. Good luck finding any post by me saying that borrowed power and innovative systems are bad. I will critique them and ask for them to iterate and improve systems but I think almost every system they have added could be kept in some form if improved upon.

[Nyel]

Yeah no, after experiencing Dragonriding, static flying feels absolutely atrocious and slow.

People aren't gonna abandon the trippled flight speed.

As I said, we’re going to see. I think people are generally lazy and with flying you just can turn on auto run and that’s it. You cannot do that with Dragonriding. Convenience > speed. But that’s down to personal preference my take isn’t universal.

[Makorus]

So, I was reading a Wowhead article about a scythe dropping in Black Rook Hold. And a commenter mentioned something about an axe dropping from M+ Dargul in Neltharions lair but I cannot find anything about an axe. Anyone know what they are on about?

For reference, this is the exact comment (plus the comment they were replying to):

It's this one here.



They added weapon drops to Legion dungeons for M+ because obviously they didn't drop any at all.
The model is just the axe that drops from Blast Furnace in BRF.

[Wangming]

Because Legion and BfA devoted dev time on ambitious new game modes instead of remaking base systems.

While I agree with you on this and applaud the laundry list of systems BfA came with, cause they at least tried.
But let's be frank. The system changes and the character model updates were needed for the long term health of the game.

[Ferlion]

First off, "massive land masses" is an interesting thing to claim with Legion and BFA specifically since those expansions were known for having more condensed zones, especially with the Broken Isles. I remember perusing this exact forum with complains about how everything felt on top of each other and too close with no open space compared to WoD Draenor, Northrend, or Pandaria. They addressed this with the Dragon Isles (although I would enjoy even more open space personally).

Second, they also addressed this whole idea of "new and innovative" ideas saying that they were going with a modular approach of a system being developed soley for that expansion. This started with the bare-bones Pandaria Farm, then you get the WoD Garrison, and then finally, they jump feet first into the modular design with Legion, BFA, and SL systems. Players lost their god damn minds and so they tried to react to that criticism with Dragonflight by going back to the basics. DF builds a solid base-line revamp of the UI, talent system, and basic PvE systems with some additional focus on outdoor content and Mythic+ rotation. Now, they can build on that with evergreen innovation rather than the modular shit.

AND NOW, people are judging the SYSTEMS of the next expansion based on four fucking images that may or may not be real. I think they probably are, and if they are, they look kind of cool. But the meat isn't known. No systems, no updates, nothing. And yet, people are saying the game has lost all this prestige that Legion and BFA had???? I've been reading these forums since Cata got leaked here, and it's actually insane the mental leaps and cycling of doom you see with posts like this.

I made a fake leak this expansion round because I thought it was fun, but god damn is this leak season especially depressing with the vitriol and misinformation just going around (ironic, I know, since this post is kind of vitriolic and I made a fake leak). Anyways, WoW isn't the same as it was, but it isn't dead nor dying. People begged for a return to the basics. Now, people are begging for new and innovative systems. And then when they come out, they'll complain that it isn't truly Warcraft. And then they'll beg for a return to basics.

WoW is different to everyone. Some want the 'Hair-metal' vibe of the 2000s era of Warcraft. Others want the more competitive and stream-lined focus of the 2010s. And now you have fans that are really focused on the collection side and more 'feel-good' vibes that are popular in pop-culture. You even have a few who are persistent that their specific race in WoW is what truly makes the game special (Undermine fanatics, Night-elf fascists, Forsaken genocide deniers, Orc fetishists). And that's all cool. WoW will never have one defining trait. But if you're going to criticize the game, which the game needs and thrives on, at least be factual and do so in good-faith rather than jump at whatever buzz words or concepts you can.

Just out of curiosity, what leak did you do?