The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Skildar]

Which is instanced related stuff and not in the open world. Thats a important distinction

I just read again what I wrote and apparently I added an extra negation that wasn't supposed to be there T.T
What I wanted to say is that : I'm glad they're investing more in overworld activities instead of new gameplay scenari

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I think Island Expeditions, Warfronts and Torghast all had amazing potential though. I would have loved for them to iterate on those. Imagine the Torghast gameplay (temporary power gains, decently challenging content at the upper levels, solo to small group play) combined with the Island Expeditions content (great variety in environments, mobs and random events paired with an equal variety of cosmetic rewards). As for Warfronts, I liked Arathi Warfront and I think it could definitely have been tuned to be very challenging group content if they made the effort plus the rewards were very worthwhile (amazing transmog sets); they just did not iterate on it enough.

Warfronts could have been something interesting, but in the end it's its own kind if game. What I mean by that is that its whole gameplay revolves around mechanics that are unique ti the scenario and required a lot of development and balancing to make it a worthwhile experience.

Island expeditions were sweet little pieces of content that worked quite well but the whole concept got skewed the moment it became a race against time.

Torghast has no interesting value in my eyes, it is a race that takes the same amount of time as a mm+, it is incredibly imbalanced (I remember restoshams breaking the whole thing so fast). Maybe it has to do with the rythm there, but I was bored most of the times I spent there and it didn't feel rewarding.

I feel like island expedition should make a comeback but it would be really interesting if it was directly in the overworld

[Murlocos]

I'll preface by saying I didn't play the Heroic variants, but I thought Warfronts were one of the absolute biggest misses they've had in a long time. Basically unloseable 20 minute games that play out the same every single time with no meaningful variation where the majority of gameplay is collecting resources in a small area to get to the next stage. Darkshore inexplicably doubled down on the tedium, with a lengthier prelude to the actual warfront and drastically reducing the amount of stone you could collect, making a solid chunk of the experience just sitting and waiting for more ore or mobs at the mine to spawn so you could eventually get to glaive throwers. There is no fun factor to them at all beyond the novelty of your first time experiencing it. I've heard the Heroic versions made them a more demanding challenge, but it's clear it was a too little too late situation, and I can't imagine wanting to spend even more time in the Darkshore warfront.

I do think the AI system they developed in BfA has some real potential beyond just a PvP brawl and is worth playing around with more. I think it may better fit some sort of solo content where they can fine tune the particulars more and make the AI stand out more compared to island expeditions or Comp Stomp where you're just nuking everything without much of a second thought.

[Sondrelk]

I just read again what I wrote and apparently I added an extra negation that wasn't supposed to be there T.T
What I wanted to say is that : I'm glad they're investing more in overworld activities instead of new gameplay scenari

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Warfronts could have been something interesting, but in the end it's its own kind if game. What I mean by that is that its whole gameplay revolves around mechanics that are unique ti the scenario and required a lot of development and balancing to make it a worthwhile experience.

Island expeditions were sweet little pieces of content that worked quite well but the whole concept got skewed the moment it became a race against time.

Torghast has no interesting value in my eyes, it is a race that takes the same amount of time as a mm+, it is incredibly imbalanced (I remember restoshams breaking the whole thing so fast). Maybe it has to do with the rythm there, but I was bored most of the times I spent there and it didn't feel rewarding.

I feel like island expedition should make a comeback but it would be really interesting if it was directly in the overworld

Island expeditions failed in my eyes because of the heavy focus on being timed, and having to be in a group. It could have worked if it was solo (though maybe with an option to be in a group), with more focus on random encounters and mini quests.

Warfronts similarly failed because they tried to capture the RTS vibe of massive battles, forgetting that most of the units are grunt units, not hero unit moved individually by the player.
Had it been 5-man it probably would have worked. Just make each player command massive groups that is slowly built up. Rather than 30 players being timegated on where to go and when.

In both cases they failed because the MMO aspect interfered with the game, which is kinda telling.

[Kiivar86]

Island expeditions failed in my eyes because of the heavy focus on being timed, and having to be in a group. It could have worked if it was solo (though maybe with an option to be in a group), with more focus on random encounters and mini quests.

Yeah, I wanted to be able to like, explore a bit. Instead the timer and whatnot I barely even see where I'm going, just focusing on being a meat grinder.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I liked Island Expeditions. They were one of the few good things about BFA. I found the questing experience to be boring so I reached 120 doing island expeditions. Sadly that content was abandoned.

[Nymrohd]

I'll preface by saying I didn't play the Heroic variants, but I thought Warfronts were one of the absolute biggest misses they've had in a long time. Basically unloseable 20 minute games that play out the same every single time with no meaningful variation where the majority of gameplay is collecting resources in a small area to get to the next stage. Darkshore inexplicably doubled down on the tedium, with a lengthier prelude to the actual warfront and drastically reducing the amount of stone you could collect, making a solid chunk of the experience just sitting and waiting for more ore or mobs at the mine to spawn so you could eventually get to glaive throwers. There is no fun factor to them at all beyond the novelty of your first time experiencing it. I've heard the Heroic versions made them a more demanding challenge, but it's clear it was a too little too late situation, and I can't imagine wanting to spend even more time in the Darkshore warfront.

Nah heroics were less challenging than normal raids. You just made a point to not invite people who had abysmal ilvl and the gear alone just did the job.

I think Arathi could have been tuned up to be a real challenge. Balance things so people need to get their upgrades ASAP, make the enemy forces far more dangerous and have them keep pushing and you'd end up with people having to actually optimise to complete them.
Darkshore's entire design was just BAD. As you said the first part took forever and then actually making units was just not efficient. Even later in the expansion I could do Heroic Arathi and I'd still have fully upgraded chargers by the time we hit the boss (and do several times more damage than people who did not bother to use the units). Meanwhile in Darkshore getting the upgrades past the point necessary to progress was just too slow and the few times I had upgraded units they did not feel as impactful.

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Island expeditions failed in my eyes because of the heavy focus on being timed, and having to be in a group. It could have worked if it was solo (though maybe with an option to be in a group), with more focus on random encounters and mini quests.

As I said, if you replaced the timed aspect with a Torghast gameplay model (solo to small group, some version of power upgrade to spice things up) IEs (especially solo versions) would have been much more popular. Because the random encounters and the mini quests already existed, you just didn't have the time to notice them because you were constantly in a rush.

[Makabreska]

I actually like Islands since 8.1 update. The environmental variety was a big win for me, especially when you compare it to ridiculously drab and samey Torghast. Snowy island, volcano island, Pandaren village, forgotten Gilnean town etc.

[Dracullus]

I actually like Islands since 8.1 update. The environmental variety was a big win for me, especially when you compare it to ridiculously drab and samey Torghast. Snowy island, volcano island, Pandaren village, forgotten Gilnean town etc.

Still, imagine grinding this thing instead of exploring new continent on your first character xD.

In general biggest mistake for both Islands and Torghast is making it part of power progression. Torghast was way more fun when I cleared it just for meta achiev, same with Islands now when I solo them for cosmetics. Somehow only new content that avoided that fate were Horrific Visions, it was part of progression but wasn't hated even when it was current.

[Makabreska]

Still, imagine grinding this thing instead of exploring new continent on your first character xD.

Grinding? 2-4 runs for weekly, depending on difficulty.

[GabrielKnight]

I'm still confused about the whole "borrowed power" grinding thing. I never, not a single time, felt that I had to grind anything. Just by playing the game everything came naturally, and that goes for both Legion and BfA. And during Shadowlands I did +16 keys every week so it's not like I was unable to play the game. :shrug:

[Aeluron Lightsong]

My Torghast opinion is too controversial, I'll leave it at that. Islands having no timer is a fair concession I'll accept. Still miffed about WQs currently.

[Nymrohd]

My Torghast opinion is too controversial, I'll leave it at that. Islands having no timer is a fair concession I'll accept. Still miffed about WQs currently.

I had two main gripes about Torghast
a) When they revealed it at Blizzcon it was supposed to be a progression path. Specifically it was supposed to unlock Vault loot. They never explained anything beyond that (mainly, what level of loot). If they had restricted it to Heroic ilvl, it would have been far more interesting and a progression path for anyone interested
b) My main issue with it was that the mob and environment variety was pitiful. We did see minor incursions from other Shadowland planes beyond the Maw. WHY not have entire levels that look like Maw-dominated versions of those places; the Jailer was extending chains to grasp places from the In-Between. It would have allowed for so much more variety.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

WHY not have entire levels that look like Maw-dominated versions of those places; the Jailer was extending chains to grasp places from the In-Between. It would have allowed for so much more variety.

That tied into one of the biggest missed opportunities with Shadowlands. You hear that there are countless different realms in the Shadowlands, but you only see four. You never even hear descriptions about other realms or even names. Only the four. Patch 7.3 had the event in Argus where you take portals to other worlds. Even if they were just reused assets, they did make the cosmos feel a little bigger.

Another issue is that the Shadowlands was supposed to service not just Azeroth, but all worlds in the cosmos, but ingame you only see Azeroth races + Orcs + Draenei. The only aliens are that dead guy from the Draka cinematic, and the two unicorns in the Night Fae Covenant, but their ingame models aren't aliens and they look indistinguishable from Azeroth druids/spirits. Blizzard couldn't even be bothered to reskin existing rigs to show some aliens ingame.

[Nathanyel]

I'm a firm believer that housing can be made into wow but it has to be miles ahead of what the competition offers in terms of immersion. No instanced housing, have your place visible by anyone. Not just a place to isolate yourself, but one that gives you something of value.

Instanced doesn't mean isolated.

And it has to be instanced, at least in the way garrisons were.
It needs sharding or some kind of "infinite carpet" to allow everyone, even on heavily populated realms, to be able to build a house.

Limited plots and either a lottery like in FFXIV or "be one of the first few hundred to cough up the million gold for a house", that would absolutely ruin the feature. Obviously, it shouldn't be a guild-exclusive feature either.

Sure, make it expensive, but allow anyone with that gold, anytime, to start a house.
Allow them to make their house public or private, allow them to move to a different region/city.
Gold costs and/or cooldowns on that would disencourage doing these changes too often.
Alts should be able to create their own houses.

Even shared houses on bigger plots don't have to be guild-specific, instead your character lives there with a handful of housemates, be that the chars of your friends or your alts.

One last thing:
It has to be a pure gold sink. No way to earn gold or other progression (except achievements to unlock more customization options) meaning it shouldn't be another Garrison.
I would even try to prevent in-game competitions for the "prettiest house". Your dwelling should be a reflection of your character's RP and you own artistic choices that cannot, should not be quantified.
Qualitative comparisons to other players' works can only lead to elitism and toxicity, and an automated system using arbitrary "scores" of used decorations like in Animal Crossing is just silly and stifles expression.

[Luck4]

Which MMO released after 2010 has un-instanced housing?

I haven't played the newer ones, so idk... It's possible to have enough room in a 3D World for half the population of a given realm?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I'll preface by saying I didn't play the Heroic variants, but I thought Warfronts were one of the absolute biggest misses they've had in a long time. Basically unloseable 20 minute games that play out the same every single time with no meaningful variation where the majority of gameplay is collecting resources in a small area to get to the next stage. Darkshore inexplicably doubled down on the tedium, with a lengthier prelude to the actual warfront and drastically reducing the amount of stone you could collect, making a solid chunk of the experience just sitting and waiting for more ore or mobs at the mine to spawn so you could eventually get to glaive throwers. There is no fun factor to them at all beyond the novelty of your first time experiencing it. I've heard the Heroic versions made them a more demanding challenge, but it's clear it was a too little too late situation, and I can't imagine wanting to spend even more time in the Darkshore warfront.

I find that somewhat tragic, since I think they were an extraordinarily cool concept—had they just been structured more like Wintergrasp or Tol Barad, I imagine they'd be quite well-received. An opt-in system, yet still strictly in the open world like the aforementioned used to be, would be very fun and interesting to experiment with. They definitely should have been a PvP feature—either partially or exclusively. I think Battle for Azeroth was the perfect opportunity to finally give PvP some much-needed love, and it was really squandered. I could see an alternate Battle for Azeroth in which Warfronts were little more than something resembling Tol Barad or Winterspring, with PvE questing existing alongside PvP gameplay in the open world, with the questing and PvP both helping to determine who dominates the battleground for the time being.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Which MMO released after 2010 has un-instanced housing?

ArcheAge, I think, but there was a lot of drama at launch surrounding about botters who acquired land very quickly. But that game is a sandbox PvP MMO more along the lines of Ultima Online than a casual game like retail WoW.

The solution is instancing, be it in an isolated map or in the open world like the Halfhill Farm/Garrison.

[Luck4]

ArcheAge, I think, but there was a lot of drama at launch surrounding about botters who acquired land very quickly. But that game is a sandbox PvP MMO more along the lines of Ultima Online than a casual game like retail WoW.

The solution is instancing, be it in an isolated map or in the open world like the Halfhill Farm/Garrison.

I think WoW might have enough room if they put 30-40 houses in each zone of every expansion.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I think WoW might have enough room if they put 30-40 houses in each of zone of every expansion.

Limited housing is meaningless in a cross-realm world where you don't see the same people online each time you play. Almost everyone you see is someone you will probably never see again. If this was WoW classic where server communities were still a thing? Sure. But this is retail. Give everyone their own house wherever they want.

[huth]

I think WoW might have enough room if they put 30-40 houses in each zone of every expansion.

I suggest you try counting them. I doubt that would be remotely enough.