1. #41801
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    There was no build up at all for the Broken Isles.

    It was a pointless reef with long dead ruins that had fallen below the ocean until the trailer where Khadgar showed up in Stormwind and was like "Oh, by the way, the Legion just warped a massive army to the Broken Isles, which are now a large flourishing land with all sorts of native cultures and societies."

    "Past Draenor"'s only build up was the vague implication of 5.4 having Bronze Dragons.

    The single expansion of build up we have for KA/Alva is already more than that. We already know there's a place to the west that dragons have vanished to and that pirates have come back rich from and that might house some mysterious fissure and strange earthen and titan-forged who practice heresy. Even before a cinematic starts up and has Elune slam down into the region and declare that this is birth of the Empire of the New Moon, or Azshara, Xal and Iridkiron warp in with a void army at their backs, we already have hooks.
    I get that. You kinda have a point.
    But consider this:
    The Legion attacked with a bunch of well known people we grew to know love or love to hate from the time between War Craft 1 and WoD.
    The Legion also had very tangible affects on our lives. Gul'Dan, both versions, was a grade A arsehole we wanted to stop.

    In WoD we knew who Garrosh was and pretty much all Warlord was a known lore character.

    What of Avaloren? They are heretics. To titans. For some reason. What does that even entail? What have they been doing? Definitely not anything that would affect Azeroth in a meaningful way. Maybe they are just minding their own business and smoking weed, but the Titans think that ganja is the Legion's lettuce so they need to die.
    What if my character does not care about Heretics? What if they want to hang out in Pandaria and eat spicy noodles? Do they have a personal reason to go there?

  2. #41802
    Mechagnome Myrrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I suppose the issue for me is that this would make perfect sense after we had a world revamp.
    Same setup as MoP in that we have fixed everything back home, and now it's time for shenanigans across the sea.
    Granted I'm making some bold assumptions as to the canonical cause of the eventual revamp here, but personally I would see a jaunt to the other side of the world only to return to a vastly reshaped Kalimdor/EK to make more sense - the Dragon Isles aren't all that far away in terms of distance.

    Shadowlands would have made more sense, but evidently the revamp was barely a glimmer in their eyes at that point.

  3. #41803
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    Cataclysm also had absolutely no build-up.
    Deathwing's story was still unfinished and a lot of people were curious about what he was up to and if he would ever return. Cataclysm also added many locations that had been teased since Vanilla, like Uldum, Grim Batol, Mount Hyjal, Maelstrom, etc.

    Cataclysm had a lot more build-up than Avaloren. No one cares about a random island that has existed in the game's canon for less than a year.

  4. #41804
    We are literally the champion of a Titan?????

  5. #41805
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    You are confusing lore reasons to go somewhere vs what the players want. The fact that some players wanted pandas is undeniable and probably why Pandaria happened. What we knew about it lorewise to justify an entire expansion around it is just as good (if not worse) as what we know about avaloren.
    Again, that's false. If you disagree with this, describe any race currently on or from Avaloren. Describe the culture or style of Avaloren based on the information we have.

    From this single image;



    We get a ton of information about Pandaren and Pandaria. And we had that from the beginning.

  6. #41806
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    I see what you mean.

    But I am increasingly of the opinion that a revamp doesn't need to be an expansion. It could just be a free update to everyone, arriving all at once in a patch, or in large chunks. Like when they overhauled levelling at the end of Legion or whenever it was, in 7.3.5 I believe.
    There are still plotlines that need to be resolved in EK and Kalimdor. The Ragnaros cultist plotline for instance only really make sense taking place in Blackrock Mountain. So in some way we do need to go back at some point.

    Until we endgame storylines taking place in EK and Kalimdor there will always be that desire to have a World Revamp, and I don't think it's an issue Blizzard can just avoid forever.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #41807
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, that's false. If you disagree with this, describe any race currently on or from Avaloren. Describe the culture or style of Avaloren based on the information we have.

    From this single image;

    We get a ton of information about Pandaren and Pandaria.
    Did you even read their post?

  8. #41808
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, that's false. If you disagree with this, describe any race currently on or from Avaloren. Describe the culture or style of Avaloren based on the information we have.

    From this single image;



    We get a ton of information about Pandaren and Pandaria. And we had that from the beginning.
    My brother in Christ what does your question have ANYTHING to do with what I just said?

  9. #41809
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Did you even read their post?
    Yeah I did. And yes an expansion about Panda people on a lost East Asian style continent is reason enough lorewise to visit that location. Especially when one of the people from that lost East Asian continent is a champion of the Horde who helped Thrall establish Orgrimmar.

  10. #41810
    As for the setup: Odyn was never ok with the dragons being elevated to Aspects. But at least they were still serving Titans. Now, with Aspects breaking with Titans, and gaining their powers back not through the Titans but (possibly) directly through Elune, and us stealing his Storm Drakes, he's sure to be pissed. Assuming the Heretics were worshipping Elune and Life, he could decide that it's time to end it once and for all and he goes to Avaloren himself instead of sending some missions.

  11. #41811
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    My brother in Christ what does your question have ANYTHING to do with what I just said?
    Because what you said was that what we have with Avaloren is just as good justification for an expansion as what we had for Pandaria.

    Again, that's BS.

  12. #41812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    No, but by that logic nothing ever makes sense. Many players probably didn't even read the quest texts that explain why we are fighting Razsageth in the vault. Or is even aware that the reason we fight Drakonids so often is because of the protests against their poor treatment by the dragons.
    I mean, I agree - you claimed they were well known as a reason for the WoD>Legion connection being stronger though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The Broken Isles was a well known location though. The Tomb of Sargeras was prominently featured in Warcraft 3, and it's approximate location was even shown on in-game maps long before Legion.

  13. #41813
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah I did. And yes an expansion about Panda people on a lost East Asian style continent is reason enough lorewise to visit that location. Especially when one of the people from that lost East Asian continent is a champion of the Horde who helped Thrall establish Orgrimmar.
    But... That's not why we went to Pandaria?

    Was Chen even acknowledged by anyone from the Horde until 5.4?

  14. #41814
    Herald of the Titans Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    There are still plotlines that need to be resolved in EK and Kalimdor. The Ragnaros cultist plotline for instance only really make sense taking place in Blackrock Mountain. So in some way we do need to go back at some point.

    Until we endgame storylines taking place in EK and Kalimdor there will always be that desire to have a World Revamp, and I don't think it's an issue Blizzard can just avoid forever.
    No disagreement there.

  15. #41815
    On a scale of 1-10, how likely is it that the reveal on Friday is that the expansion is about Avaloren?

  16. #41816
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because what you said was that what we have with Avaloren is just as good justification for an expansion as what we had for Pandaria.

    Again, that's BS.
    It is not because what I mean by lore reason is in game story events leading up to us visiting said place. The existence of pandaren just by itself is not a good enough reason to visit what was previously thought to be a comic relief analogy to the martial arts culture of china. And the reason for going to Pandaria was not Chen or because pandas existed. It was made up and was literally given when the expansion was announced and was not built up years before. Same thing will happen with Avaloren IF that is the next landmass we go to.

    You are letting your own personal feelings interfere with logic because you just don't like avaloren being the potential next destination. And then you re projecting those feelings making other people sound as if they re defending avaloren being the next location as the best choice.
    I personally don't really have an opinion on whether it's the best choice or not. It will depend how they justify it just like with previous expansions. It just doesn't seem any less possible to me than Pandaria did at the time.

  17. #41817
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    You are confusing lore reasons to go somewhere vs what the players want. The fact that some players wanted pandas is undeniable and probably why Pandaria happened. What we knew about it lorewise to justify an entire expansion around it is just as good (if not worse) as what we know about avaloren.
    Okay, let me add another level.
    What the Character wants.

    Because as it so happens MoP is probably the best one in that regards. You see no one, not the Alliance nor the Horde, went there for Pandas. They went there for Anduin. If you are a die-hard horde player, hurting the Alliance King sounds just what you might want to do. And as an Alliance player who saw him every time you went into the throne room and his father ever since Wrath began, you might actually care for either of them. And if so you would be happy to embark on a rescue mission.

    But now with Chromie time and you just doing one slice of the whole journey something like this might not work again.

  18. #41818
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    But... That's not why we went to Pandaria?

    Was Chen even acknowledged by anyone from the Horde until 5.4?
    No, we went to Pandaria because Blizzard wanted players to be able to play as Pandaren and Brewmasters. Blizzard also wanted an expansion set in an East Asian style. Thing is, we knew that BEFORE we even went there.

    And yes, as soon as Chen was established as a canon character (way back in vanilla) that made all of his exploits in WC3 canon as well.

  19. #41819
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrh View Post
    I mean, I agree - you claimed they were well known as a reason for the WoD>Legion connection being stronger though.
    The WoD Legion connection was Gul'dan surviving at the end of the HFC raid and being sent through the portal to somewhere.
    The Tomb of Sargeras om the Broken Isles was a well known location in WoW lore as a place with loads of demons.

    There is a vast difference between a location being mentioned in a book in a dungeon far away from the main location of the expansion. A book which is not even part of any quest or otherwise. And a location shown in the first mission of the Nelf campaign in Warcraft 3, a mission well known for also giving us the Azshara/Naga connection, and prominently featuring fan favorite Illidan.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #41820
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, we went to Pandaria because Blizzard wanted players to be able to play as Pandaren and Brewmasters. Blizzard also wanted an expansion set in an East Asian style. Thing is, we knew that BEFORE we even went there.

    And yes, as soon as Chen was established as a canon character (way back in vanilla) that made all of his exploits in WC3 canon as well.
    Yeah, just like Blizzard wants people to go to Avaloren? But it's not good enough because ...?

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