The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Jaggler]

In your opinion. Blizzard stated that Pandaria was an expansion they wanted to do multiple times before MoP was announced.



And that's perfectly fine for an expansion like Pandaria because it has strong enough lore characters to carry it through despite the lore justifications. It's the exact same reasoning in the dragon isles.

If you don't have a good lore reason to go, and/or you don't have strong characters to hook you into the expansion, you have nothing. You need one or the other or preferably both, as was the case with WotLk or Legion.



Uh no. I'm pointing out the reasoning behind the justifications for going to new locations for expansions. It's either lore, characters, or both. Avaloren has neither.

Sorry, but Pandaria didn't have a "strong lore character", Chen was a side character in a side mission of WC3, barely even a "real character".

[Hitei]

What of Avaloren? They are heretics. To titans. For some reason. What does that even entail? What have they been doing? Definitely not anything that would affect Azeroth in a meaningful way. Maybe they are just minding their own business and smoking weed, but the Titans think that ganja is the Legion's lettuce so they need to die.
What if my character does not care about Heretics? What if they want to hang out in Pandaria and eat spicy noodles? Do they have a personal reason to go there?

If one or multiple of Elune, Azshara, Iridikron, or Xal'atath are involved with Alvaloren, I will instantly give more of a shit about it than AU Gul'dan's role in Legion or the entirety of WoD.

You're arguing from a flawed basis. You know why Legion was important and who is in it and WoD, we have no idea what is going to happen in 11.0.

Again, prior to Legion, where were the people we knew and tangible effects on our lives for a crumbling ruin in the middle of the ocean? Prior to WoD prepatch becoming a thing, why would literally any character give a shit about the past version of a destroyed planet in an alternate universe? Did anyone have a personal reason to go diving in the ruins of the tomb of Sargeras or open up a time portal to an alternate version of Outland before those expansions were announced? No.

[Delever]

Small reminder that we know basically nothing of Avaloren. That doesn't mean there's no reason to go there, it means it's a blank slate. We could have ANY reason to go there - it's up to Blizzard to decide what that reason is going to be.

I think some of you are getting a bit too wound up with really strong opinions over things you're making up entirely in your head.

Damn you for bringing logic into this thread!! How dare you!! /s

[NikolaiShade]

To me the establishment of Garrosh as a major lore character was handled correctly (at least from a Horde perspective). We first meet him in Nagrand in TBC and do some quest chains to basically slap some sense into him. Then the big event at the end of that chain has Thrall arrive in Nagrand and eventually showing Garrosh how his father was a hero and saved the Orcs. Over the next few expansions Garrosh slowly gets more involved and we more about his character and motivations culminating in MoP and WoD.

So Blizzard took an unknown character in TBC and throughout WotLK----->Cata----->Mists----->WoD turned him into the leader of the Horde and subsequently villain.

I have not seen them do that with any other lore character or physical location since. With the few possible exception of Calia.

Hard disagree, there has been development for Bolvar, Jaina, Magni, Anduin and even Sylvanas (sore spot but she had a development anyway).

Wait there is Uther too

[Viridiel]

So there's a chance they're completely different continents but both on the other side of Azeroth.

It's almost certain they are. The Storming Sea stops people from being able to get to Avaloren but not Khaz Algar.

[Harbour]

Final predictions:
Idea: WoW needs to come back in full glory, it needs big Ws, massive, epic and exciting.
Theme: Light and/or Void.
Place: Either K'aresh or Revamped Azeroth, partly AU Draenor (i 100% believe Shattrath Raid will come back at some point).
Villains: Void Lords, Y'rel, Garrosh, Nexus-Princes, Scarlet Crusade.
Heroes: Tyr, Turalyon, Alleria, Khadgar, Calia

[Wangming]

Anyone else isnt fascinated with the prospect of Odyn being the focus (or one of the) of another expansion, as well as framing Titans as the bad guys?
.

Me neither. The problem with Odyn for me is that he is more of an injoke to mythology nerds.

"hey, he is Odyn cause he is a lot like Odin. Geddit?"

He doesn't feel like an actual wow character. At least not on the same level as Thrall, Kael, Jaina, or Illidan.
And he isn't anything new or inventive. He is just...Odin. I just don't think he needs too much of a focus. Just let him sit on his thrown in his land and be Odin. No need to waste an expansion on Ragnarök.

[NikolaiShade]

I am talking in the context of the announcement. The green dragons and Tyr stating you shouldn't go west of Kalimdor would be a weird thing to bring up when it isn't technically in the game yet.

For the announcement they just need an hook and then say: there are bad guys to kill and shinies to get in "THAT PLACE" go and stop apocalypse #11. There are a lots of possible reasons to visit a previously unknown land, and seeing how Pandaria is always named, I would point out the reason in game, for my character, to go there was becouse the then prince Anduin was lost there after a shipwreck. I mean, not the greatest reason out there. Right now we have Odyn, Azshara, Iridikron and Knaifu out there plotting or potentially turning hostile (and I'm not considering the ventuality Tyr is compromised, and I already stated I see that possibility). Everyone of them could have something to do in a distant and unknown land.

[Delever]

Final predictions:
Idea: WoW needs to come back in full glory, it needs big Ws, massive, epic and exciting.
Theme: Light and/or Void.
Place: Either K'aresh or Revamped Azeroth, partly AU Draenor (i 100% believe Shattrath Raid will come back at some point).
Villains: Void Lords, Y'rel, Garrosh, Nexus-Princes, Scarlet Crusade.
Heroes: Tyr, Turalyon, Alleria, Khadgar, Calia

Whenever they want to come back in full glory they deploy nostalgia tactics like wod (regardless of how it ended) or "break rule of cool glass in case of emergency" like legion where we got artifact weapons and demon hunters. Doubt light vs void would be the big W considering shadowlands dissilusioned a lot of people when it comes to cosmic stuff.

[Teriz]

Sorry, but Pandaria didn't have a "strong lore character", Chen was a side character in a side mission of WC3, barely even a "real character".

Uh Chen was one of the most popular characters in the history of the franchise.

But okay buddy.

[Redwyrm]

Hard disagree, there has been development for Bolvar, Jaina, Magni, Anduin and even Sylvanas (sore spot but she had a development anyway).

Wait there is Uther too

Agreed. I did not mention those for a couple of reasons. One is I don't remember every character storyline (old age sucks). And I don't remember if these characters were there from the beginning of WoW or introduced later. And the other reason is that some of their story arcs have not been seen to conclusion yet.

Or a better way to explain it. I was more focused on brand new characters and lands that had no existing lore to back them up to show that Blizzard can and has established new lore to fuel future expansions. But it seems like things like Shadowlands and possible Avaloren are barely mentioned before they become focal points.

[Teriz]

The comic relief character of wc3 and Pandaria is a good enough reason to go there but the mysterious other side of azeroth isn't? So if Christ metzen comes up on Friday and says " oh we actually always wanted players to go to Avaloren" will that be good enough for you? Just like when danuser said "oh actually the jailer was the mastermind behind everything all along?" They can say whatever the fuck they want and you have no way of knowing whether that's the truth or not you know that right?

Please show evidence in the lore that Avaloren is on the other side of Azeroth. I have never seen any piece of lore that explicitly states that.

Also Blizzard has ever confirmed that there is even another side of Azeroth, or is that entirely fanfiction?

[Wangming]

For the announcement they just need an hook and then say: there are bad guys to kill and shinies to get in "THAT PLACE" go and stop apocalypse #11.

Which worked for me back in the day WoW was my only MMO. It doesn't anymore. My standards have been raised. Can Blizzard meet them? I hope so but I'm not convinced. Will I still attend the speculation threads like I do now? Certainly. As long as they are fun.

[Teriz]

Small reminder that we know basically nothing of Avaloren. That doesn't mean there's no reason to go there, it means it's a blank slate. We could have ANY reason to go there - it's up to Blizzard to decide what that reason is going to be.

I think some of you are getting a bit too wound up with really strong opinions over things you're making up entirely in your head.

Cool, what's the reason for us to go to Avaloren? We've had a reason to go to every expansion location up to this point.

[Harbour]

Whenever they want to come back in full glory they deploy nostalgia tactics like wod (regardless of how it ended) or "break rule of cool glass in case of emergency" like legion where we got artifact weapons and demon hunters. Doubt light vs void would be the big W considering shadowlands dissilusioned a lot of people when it comes to cosmic stuff.

Imo the very crucial difference between Shadowlands cosmic themes and Light vs Void cosmic themes are in that Light vs Void was built up throught Legion, BFA, partly SL, and characters attached to them are more relateable and well established.
Like it would be way easier to connect with players through Alleria, Turalyon, Khadgar and other major players, rather than through Winter Queen, Pelagos, Maldraxus and Revendreth guys etc.
Light vs Void in fact sends us back to Warcraft roots of fighting Burning Legion side by side with old friends, except now it would be Light/Void. Its way more comprehendable theme for casuals.
Its not us chasing edgy Syllvanas and trying to make sense of Jay Lore and First One hubris.

[Delever]

Please show evidence in the lore that Avaloren is on the other side of Azeroth. I have never seen any piece of lore that explicitly states that.

Also Blizzard has ever confirmed that there is even another side of Azeroth, or is that entirely fanfiction?

They could very well confirm it in the reveal. Just like they ve done with a lot of other expansions. I don't think blizzard ever confirmed that there was a zereth mortis either where progenitors creater Minecraft versions of things before they gave them life. Or that there are 4 covenants ruling the shadowlands.

[Varodoc]

Whenever they want to come back in full glory they deploy nostalgia tactics like wod (regardless of how it ended) or "break rule of cool glass in case of emergency" like legion where we got artifact weapons and demon hunters. Doubt light vs void would be the big W considering shadowlands dissilusioned a lot of people when it comes to cosmic stuff.

The average player thinks that the Void Lords are the ultimate villains of the Warcraft setting, the average player thinks that the Jailer was referring to the Void Lords with his last words, the average player knows that Sargeras and the Legion were terrified of the Void Lords.

The Old Gods will return in a Void expansion and the average player loves the Old Gods, because they are nostalgic of old bosses C'Thun and Yogg-Saron.

Void setting is perfect for a nostalgic expansion, much like WoD was, as well as a "OH SHIT!" expansion, like Legion was (because average player thinks Void Lords are the ultimate mega villains of Warcraft franchise).

[Delever]

Imo the very crucial difference between Shadowlands cosmic themes and Light vs Void cosmic themes are in that Light vs Void was built up throught Legion, BFA, partly SL, and characters attached to them are more relateable and well established.
Like it would be way easier to connect with players through Alleria, Turalyon, Khadgar and other major players, rather than through Winter Queen, Pelagos, Maldraxus and Revendreth guys etc.
Light vs Void in fact sends us back to Warcraft roots of fighting Burning Legion side by side with old friends, except now it would be Light/Void. Its way more comprehendable theme for casuals.
Its not us chasing edgy Syllvanas and trying to make sense of Jay Lore and First One hubris.

Okay fair. I can actually get behind that. It will eventually likely happen anyway and it could very well be now.

[lanerios]

Uh Chen was one of the most popular characters in the history of the franchise.

But okay buddy.

This really needs a source. You keep spouting it, but there is no basis for it.

[Delever]

The average player thinks that the Void Lords are the ultimate villains of the Warcraft setting, the average player thinks that the Jailer was referring to the Void Lords with his last words, the average player knows that Sargeras and the Legion were terrified of the Void Lords.

The Old Gods will return in a Void expansion and the average player loves the Old Gods, because they are nostalgic of old bosses C'Thun and Yogg-Saron.

Void setting is perfect for a nostalgic expansion, much like WoD was.

I can also get behind that. Good points tbh.