The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

@Hitei here made a better sub plot than danuser and didnt had to make a joke about ghosting women

mad?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

[Wangming]

Tbh the Primus is the actual Jailer theory was just a little bit far fetched, about N'zoth, i mean if really they want to reveal he tricked us, they can do it any expansion, the later the better honestly

They could leave us with glitches in the matrix that tip us off to the truth. Much like how indoctrination theory for mass effect 3 has entire documentary series discussing all the hints and evidence.

Unfortunately, all we have now is: Surely it can't be this easy to get rid of him.

[Makorus]

How is that a bad story development?

N'Zoth is literally the smartest Old God.

The bad story development is N'Zoth dying to a DBZ beam, just like that, with no further plans or contingencies, despite being the smartest Old God who always relies on plans and contingencies.

It's bad story development because "It was a dream all along!" is the worst possible plot device ever.

[Dioporco]

Except Danuser didn't become Narrative Designer until 2020. At which point 9.0 definitely was already written.

also, lmao, spit on Arthas legacy.

1. "already written" and they changed stuff mid course so what the fuck are you talking about?

2. anybody that thinks "arthas in sl" was a well done part, should call his/her doctor

[micwini]

How is that a bad story development?

N'Zoth is literally the smartest Old God.

The bad story development is N'Zoth dying to a DBZ beam, just like that, with no further plans or contingencies, despite being the smartest Old God who always relies on plans and contingencies.

Im mentioned 2 instances of fan theories being superior (imo) to blizzards own writing. N'zoth tricking us indeed makes perfect sense. But the "it was all a dream" part of it would be more stupid the more expansions pass.
Him later on turning out to be inside the dagger would be masterful and could happen at any point

[MCMLXXXII]

@Hitei here made a better sub plot than danuser and didnt had to make a joke about ghosting women

mad?

This shows that different people have different opinions on what is better. This, however objectively isn't any better.

[Villager720]

Tbh the Primus is the actual Jailer theory was just a little bit far fetched, about N'zoth, i mean if really they want to reveal he tricked us, they can do it any expansion, the later the better honestly

N’zoth is totally returning - they recorded new voice lines for him when we went back to the Black Empire with Chromie. We, they eyeball wearers he specifically chose just happened to go back and reveal ourselves to him. Pretty obvious what Blizz was seeding there.

[Wangming]

What I am saying is, if that is the case then the idea that things will change if Danuser leaves is not working because the rest of the team shares that same direction. You'd need a very strong hand.

Hopefully, Metzen is that hand.

[Dioporco]

Danuser did not write BfA. He probably did not have creative control before 8.3 started. The really offensive part of 8.3 is really the ending cinematic and how they choose to kill N'zoth; they absolutely WOULD kill him regardless. That said it is atrocious; they wanted to somehow involve the player themselves in the cinematic and if that was the best they could do then they should have fallen back and found a different way to finish things.

But yeah, I think he did have the time to make significant changes to SL if he wanted to.

BFA got released in 2018




SENIOR NARRATIVE DESIGNER in 2018

Develop storylines and character arcs for World of Warcraft expansions and patch content.
Oversee writing and editing of dialogue and quest text, maintaining consistency for franchise characters.




BRO please

[micwini]

He's not right. Because I've sat through enough threads to know that the majority of proposed lore changes that come out of the playerbase are abject trash. Notable mentions include every video ever made by Pyromancer, Teriz arguing that Tinkers are a good fit for Shadowlands because ghostbuster anti-spirit technology should spearhead the fight, and Vorodoc insisting that the entire game's storyline should be about his elf obsession's mastery of the void.

Yes, but there are plenty of examples where the fan theory is much cooler.
Of course, if you would count all of them and took a %, you would indeed end up with >99% being shite. It is nontheless frustrating that there are quite a few fan theories that would have been far cooler/more interesting than what we got.

[NikolaiShade]

They could leave us with glitches in the matrix that tip us off to the truth. Much like how indoctrination theory for mass effect 3 has entire documentary series discussing all the hints and evidence.

Unfortunately, all we have now is: Surely it can't be this easy to get rid of him.

What can of mind worms you just reopened mate. the bloody indoctrination theory. after years and years I came to a conclusion (sad honestly): they had that plan at the beginning but it didn't work in the end. some sections of the game (like the prologue with the exploding building and the little you-know-who) where already done and they couldn't remove all hints to the indoctrination

[Varodoc]

Im mentioned 2 instances of fan theories being superior (imo) to blizzards own writing. N'zoth tricking us indeed makes perfect sense. But the "it was all a dream" part of it would be more stupid the more expansions pass.
Him later on turning out to be inside the dagger would be masterful and could happen at any point

Yes, "it was all a dream" storyline never works.

That is usually thrown around as a joke and a jab at the Jailer being a shitty villain who would be better off retconned out of existence.

But it's just a joke, everyone realizes that unfortunately the Jailer will never be retconned out of existence.

Even so, Blizzard successfully wrote N'Zoth as a very cunning villain, the Old God plotline from Emerald Nightmare raid up until the Eternal Palace raid was masterfully done, easily one of the best villain plotlines of WoW.

They just fumbled the climax completely by having the SMARTEST Old God lose to a DBZ beam like a generic dumb monster.

[Makorus]

1. "already written" and they changed stuff mid course so what the fuck are you talking about?

2. anybody that thinks "arthas in sl" was a well done part, should call his/her doctor

1. You can't just change everything 180 in the middle of an expansion lmao.

2. Anybody who thinks that Arthas should have made an epic comeback and should have roundhouse kicked the Jailer is an idiot, simple as. They closed the door on him, permanently, just like they closed the door on Garrosh permanently, because the sole existence of Shadowlands kicked the door for a return of Arthas wide-open. He had a satisfying ending, and that was the most tactful way of killing him off permanently.

[Lady Atia]

and it is even more dangerous to keep adding without concluding previous storylines made up to introduce token characters.

---------------------

They added : Muezala, Bobsamdi, Winter Queen - basically in the same Expac and gone

Drust in BFA and gone but to return in SL for......nothing?


What about if they made something like this :


Winter Queen is like Freya and Ardenweald is the opposite of Emerald Dream but both must exist to make the "cycle" of Death and Life to works properly, basically Emerald Dream is where everything blooms and grow but Ardenweald is where everything became "compost" for the new "life"

BUT Muezala/Gorak Thul/Drust are the one that wants everything to DECAY etc thus halting the "cycle"

We help WQ+Bobsamdi to counter them and we close the BFA Drustvar sub plot in SL.

And this will give us access to Drust Druid that are still Druids but are the counterparts of Nelf/Tauren druids



THEN


In Dragonflight we see again something similar but towards the DECAY MAGIC (the gnolls) and that will give us a glimpse of the Old God of Decay that was used to make Ghuun making a new sub plot without the issue of "but we never ended BFA/SL drust plot dude"

What's bad about them not ending the drust plot yet? It's not unlike what they did with the Zandalari in Cata/MoP. It's a good thing to NOT kill off all your enemies because you can use them later again. I would rather have a catalogue of cool potential threads than having them being killed within one or two expansions similiar to most marvel movie villains ...

[micwini]

N’zoth is totally returning - they recorded new voice lines for him when we went back to the Black Empire with Chromie. We, they eyeball wearers he specifically chose just happened to go back and reveal ourselves to him. Pretty obvious what Blizz was seeding there.

Could have been lines that they never ended up putting into the game and already recorded during BFA. But we would have to ask @Marlamin how likely that would be.

[Shadochi]

I can kind of empathize with him if that's the case.

When someone comes to me all excited about an idea that I can tell isn't going to work, I just kind of go along with it. To me, that's preferable to ruining their day/week/month by shitting on something they're obviously passionate about.

Yeah, from a Worldbuilding and DMing (D&D) perspective I can relate to this. Sometimes players come excited to me with an idea for a new character backstory or something like that, and I just know it won't work but I don't want to discourage them from ideas so I try and modify my worldbuilding to fit it in (tho sometimes it just doesn't work out and they have to start from scratch). And the thing is when I started worldbuilding that world, it predates me playing D&D by like at least half a decade so its not a rare occurrence (however in the last year most of my worldbuilding effort has been trying to intergrade the various ideas I had to put in to feel more like a part of my world and less like a generic Forgotten Realms spinoff)

[MCMLXXXII]

BFA got released in 2018

And you think they make up the narrative as they go? They start working on the next expansion as soon as or before the previous expansion starts.

[Gloriandus]

Danuser seems to have big ideas but has trouble executing them, whether out of lack of competence or due to the constraints of the hard and fast two-year expansion cycle.

For example, the philosophical implications of the Eternal Ones being constructs was interesting but ultimately went nowhere and (apparently) just fizzled out in Zereth Mortis.

Or, Wowhead's fanfic idea that The Primus was actually The Jailer was more compelling that what the actual main narrative ended up being. Many hints seemed to be there indicating that could be the case, but, nope, construct who get deactivated.

WoW is my main game, I play it daily, and have since January 2005. But if there is one aspect of FF14's writing that I can praise to the moon, it's that I actually felt the camraderie between the main characters and me as the "Warrior of Light"; it wasn't just main characters calling me "champion" but never feeling like I was anything to them but an errand boy. Two scenes stand out to me: the scene at the end of Endwalker where the Scions are sitting outside interacting with each other with their personalities being shown. I wish I could feel about Jaina or Thrall or whomever the same way I did toward the Scions in that scene; the other is when the Scions show up with dinner, and there's a small respite from "the world is ending" just to fellowship with friends.

[NikolaiShade]

N’zoth is totally returning - they recorded new voice lines for him when we went back to the Black Empire with Chromie. We, they eyeball wearers he specifically chose just happened to go back and reveal ourselves to him. Pretty obvious what Blizz was seeding there.

they could even more simply say n'zoth planned its demise to achieve a greater victory for the black empire/the void later on

[Makorus]

N’zoth is totally returning - they recorded new voice lines for him when we went back to the Black Empire with Chromie. We, they eyeball wearers he specifically chose just happened to go back and reveal ourselves to him. Pretty obvious what Blizz was seeding there.

What?

How is N'zoth having new voice lines even relevant? It's not like he is an unique voice actor that only voices one character. It's Darin De Paul. He literally voices Tyr. Probably sleeps on the Blizzard campus seeing how they like to overuse him. So they might as well use him to record some new lines for the quest while they have him in the studio.