The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'll take this over "First Ones are Titans" BS, cause that is completely fucking wrong.

The First Ones is part of the Deep State.




/joke

[Val the Moofia Boss]

no, the concept of city itself is un-kaldorei. i remember reading somewhere that before Teldrassil they didn't have a civilization center, a permanent capital. the people was either on the plantations of the Emerald Dream in the barrows, or dispersed through the forests of northern Kalimdor with occasional small villages like Nendis. it's reflected even in their wc3 structures - it's movable treants or places of worship. k, hunter's hall, but that's it.

They had several cities as early as Knaak's 2004 War of the Ancients novel, which was only 2 years after WC3 released. IIRC there was no Kaldorei city in the Teldrassil area at the time the Sundering happened. The Stormrage Brothers and Tyrande lived in a city closer towards the center of (the megacontinent) Kalimdor, and the people fled West when the flood came. They reached Mount Hyjal and were saved from the flood.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Vol'jin should never have been killed off. The Horde's faction identity is that of monstrous, barbaric races with rippling muscles. The appropriate options as its figurehead are Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren. Unfortunately Tauren wound up getting washed down and stereotyped as peaceful and tree huggers, and there were no prominent Tauren characters who were authoritative and aggressive at the time. So that just leaves replacing Thrall with (another) Orc (or perhaps Rexxar), or a Troll, and Vol'jin was the only really prominent Darkspear troll character. Making anyone else the figurehead of the Horde would have diluted its aesthetics, as adding the elegant and calculating undead elf did. The Horde Council is also lame, not only because there is no powerful musclebound monster man to rally behind, but because it highlights just how diluted the Horde has become with the addition of magic and human-like civilized elves, more magical elves, classier trolls, cute tumblr fox furries, and so on.

Rastakhan should've died either. But no, we're stuck with boring Talanji. If anything, he should've either retired from old age or knocked unconscious for a few expacs. At least until the one after DF would be good. Or Jaina should've died instead. I'm getting really sick of her mood swings, and have her just teleport away was really unclimactic. And do the Maw into on a Zandalari (and having to deal with her again) really makes me wish there was a dialogue option to tell her to go save herself.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Rastakhan should've died either. But no, we're stuck with boring Talanji. If anything, he should've either retired from old age or knocked unconscious for a few expacs. At least until the one after DF would be good. Or Jaina should've died instead. I'm getting really sick of her mood swings, and have her just teleport away was really unclimactic. And do the Maw into on a Zandalari (and having to deal with her again) really makes me wish there was a dialogue option to tell her to go save herself.

Leave Jaina out of this, no killing her off. I didn't want Vol'jin to die either but it happened. Rastakhan dying was also...pretty quick despite I enjoyed it(The boss fight and the raid). I just wish Blizzard stops this desire to kill off characters just cuz. Rastakhan lasting longer would be more interesting for Trolls and Zandalari story but alas.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I think Rastakhan dying was okay. You can't have a world war without people dying and major changes happening, or at least the semblance of it.

Jaina surviving her boss battle is unsatisfying. You have a climatic boss fight where you kill one guy, followed up by an unstoppable pursuit to avenge him, and you have a spectacular boss fight against Jaina... only for you to not get the catharsis of killing your mark. I don't like when fiction hypes up a revenge hunt only to not payoff on it, especially in a video game where the gameplay is to kill things only for you to not kill the thing. If they weren't willing to axe Jaina then maybe it could have been Admiral Taylor, though fighting an ice wizard on a frozen sea was more spectacular.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I think Rastakhan dying was okay. You can't have a world war without people dying and major changes happening, or at least the semblance of it.

I agree with the sentiment of "people should die during a World War" (in fiction, obviously), but I would say that Rastakhan was done dirty because his removal from the story only served to elevate Talanji, who is pretty much every generic "good guy royal" trope rolled into a wretched burrito of banality. If Rastakhan must die, I'd rather a character succeed him with the demeanor or personality of Zul, yet without the malevolence (or even with it, to add a darker twist to Bwonsamdi seizing power by having him actively collaborate with some kind of quasi-willing proxy), instead of a character whose personality can be summarized as shallow bait for "yaaaas queen" posts on Twitter.

Best case scenario would be for Talanji to be the super-sad casualty of the big bad war, though, which could motivate him and fully entrap him in Bwonsamdi's snare—theoretically, it could've even led to Rastakhan and Talanji both having a major arc in some alternate version of Shadowlands.

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Jaina surviving her boss battle is unsatisfying. You have a climatic boss fight where you kill one guy, followed up by an unstoppable pursuit to avenge him, and you have a spectacular boss fight against Jaina... only for you to not get the catharsis of killing your mark. I don't like when fiction hypes up a revenge hunt only to not payoff on it, especially in a video game where the gameplay is to kill things only for you to not kill the thing. If they weren't willing to axe Jaina then maybe it could have been Admiral Taylor, though fighting an ice wizard on a frozen sea was more spectacular.

That's one of the primary issues with the whole format of the game—it's very difficult to permanently knock off well-established characters, and it is very common for that to be done in a wholly unsatisfying manner. Conversely, it is also unsatisfying for nobody important to die at all. There's sort of a balance that needs to be struck to make things work out. However, I'm definitely against killing Jaina, even insomuch as she's been rendered a hollow shell of her former self. I feel as though the Battle for Dazar'alor would have to execute – in both senses of the word – such a thing very well to make it work, and I don't trust any of Blizzard's writers to do it effectively.

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Rastakhan should've died either. But no, we're stuck with boring Talanji. If anything, he should've either retired from old age or knocked unconscious for a few expacs. At least until the one after DF would be good.

Agreed. Sacrificing a genuinely enjoyable character for the most generic "proactive princess" archetype currently extant in fiction was positively idiotic. The character existed only as bait for people to post "yaaaaaas queen" on Twitter, and she provides nothing to the setting other than that.

Or Jaina should've died instead. I'm getting really sick of her mood swings, and have her just teleport away was really unclimactic. And do the Maw into on a Zandalari (and having to deal with her again) really makes me wish there was a dialogue option to tell her to go save herself.

Another consequence of the single-faction era, I suppose. Nobody gets to act sensibly insofar as Anduin's reprehensible psychic influence collectively strips everybody of their individuality.

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Since MoP apparently, when Taran-Zhu made a false moral equivalency between the Alliance and the barbarians they were defending themselves from. And that incredibly, incredibly stupid and insulting moralizing from the Tavern in the Mists panda about "how the Horde and Alliance are strong because of one another!" *spits*. According to Blizzard, trying to excise evil and dangerous actors from this world is wrong.

The mishandling of the Horde is probably one of the bigger contributors to the story's decline—had they stuck around their portrayal circa Cataclysm, we'd have something very good. Ideally, neither faction should be wholly benevolent or malevolent, and should be a little darker in their tone and behavior. Why can't the Alliance be authoritarian, elitist imperialists united under honest faith in a higher power and with an effective and kind civilization and the Horde be frothing expansionists who are simultaneously underdogs with a sincere sense of honor and comradery who only want to preserve themselves in a world that hates and reviles them? A conflict between order and chaos is a perfectly easy thing to execute, so I don't see why it hasn't been put into place since around Cataclysm.

That, and it would also save this forum from copious amounts of LARP. Every time I see a Horde poster talk about how we should totally have an undead Blackhand and Magatha Grimtotem run the Horde or an Alliance player who can't distinguish fiction from reality bitch about the profound injustice of the murder of all those eco-fascist misandrist pagan smurfs as though it were an actual genocide I want to plunge my eyes out with my fucking thumbs (though the latter could at least also be solved by a rudimentary understanding of catharsis on the part of the game's writers). At the very least, the LARP would be less inclined to induce such visions of self-blinding in me.

[Worldshaper]

I am not sure this is true. Night Elves were first a druidic people who forged a bond with nature and the Wild Gods. Later on their empire rose which gave birth the Highborne culture you see in those cities. However this is not the culture of the playable Night Elves. When their society collapsed they went back to their origins but even more primitive and with zealotry against the arcane and magic.

Most Night Elves around in modern times are very likely from those cities you mentioned. But its obvious they don't hold those places in any sort of significance as they've never tried to retake or relocate to any of them. Its far more likely they hold Hyjal in higher regard as its basically a holy site.

Other way around.

They started around those cities, then moved west out of necessity.

The reason they didn't try to move back to them is because they were destroyed and sank in the sea.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

it's really weird and annoying that they keep hinting at traditional concepts and do nothing with them - Tyrande basically switches classes to a Warden without the ult, and then to a DH when she fights Nathanos and Sylv, not even to mention how SL's covenants mirror wc3 races (humans, orcs+undead, night elves and blood elves) and in Eternity's End we get rid of a blue hunk with 5 total lines.

You're not wrong in the slightest—Night Elves have gotten more consistently shafted throughout the story than any other race in terms of their portrayal. While Teldrassil was hardly a tangible loss, their complete absence of identity was. They've effectively been in a state of complete banality since Vanilla so as not to upset the faction balance (even though it would be upset with the addition of the Blood Elves regardless), while being left as little more than smurf-flavored Lorax clones only slightly more predisposed to violence.

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during the BfA development, Maiev was supposed to become the Night Warrior. from the aesthethical point of view, it's justified - Avatar of Vengeance is her OG ultimate, which, may i remind you, looks shadowy and returns the the dead as the unstoppable vengeful wraiths. they were probably right to give the role to Tyrande instead as she would've been completely pathetic and useless if she had nothing to do, and also because Maiev isn't the face of the night elves and wasn't as touched by the loss of Teldrassil. it is, however, a missed opportunity to connect those two further. Maiev was originally a priestess of Elune, and i don't think she lost the faith during her underground service. they could've reframed PotM and Warden as two sides of the same coin, the palm and the fist of the Goddess. it would be incredibly fitting to make Maiev show Tyrande how to become herself an avatar of vengeance on steroids, with an ability to call the souls to her aid, especially considering that we had a whole fn expansion revolving around the dead in the realm of the dead. alas, they didn't come up with it when it was necessary and it won't be mentioned again because vengeance is bad, so the whole concept is kinda buried.

It is odd that the aesthetic and thematic similarities between the Night Warrior and old Warden lore were never explored—couldn't it be just as easily stated that the Wardens and Night Warrior both drew upon the aspect of Elune by the same name as the latter, thus explaining the similarities?

[Skildar]

I was enthusiastic with Talanji being made queen because the character was showing some distance from other troll tribes and appreciation toward darkspears. At the same time she is being made a pawn of Bwomsamdi and looking for vengeance for the murder of her father.

But with the new direction that blizzard took of no more war between alliance and horde, it doesn't matter that we have bellicist leaders, they will not act anymore and simply look sad and frustrated

[guro-tchai]

It is odd that the aesthetic and thematic similarities between the Night Warrior and old Warden lore were never explored—couldn't it be just as easily stated that the Wardens and Night Warrior both drew upon the aspect of Elune by the same name as the latter, thus explaining the similarities?

that's my headcanon, but it's baffling that such a low-hanging fruit was completely missed. like, there's even an existing juxtaposition between the visible and dark sides of the moon - yes, build on it! Maiev was hidden from view for millenia, just like the dark side.
it's almost funny that they introduced the duality quite recently with the warden set and the trading post cat. but not between the sides of the moon or faces of the Goddess - between sun and moon instead, as if night elves were tauren. sad!

They had several cities as early as Knaak's 2004 War of the Ancients novel, which was only 2 years after WC3 released. IIRC there was no Kaldorei city in the Teldrassil area at the time the Sundering happened. The Stormrage Brothers and Tyrande lived in a city closer towards the center of (the megacontinent) Kalimdor, and the people fled West when the flood came. They reached Mount Hyjal and were saved from the flood.

i make a distinction between the imperial/pre-imperial night elves, the highborne caste (who were even described as looking different from the general populace in WotA) and the night elves we met in wc3. fortunately, we even have the words for it: queldorei and kaldorei. this differentiation is especially useful to counter the forced meme "night elves almost broke the earth and summoned the satan". no, kaldorei - current playable race and a member of the Alliance - fought against those who did it, the queldorei, and even more than that - willingly paid for the sins of their brothers with their civilization. back to the topic, i don't remember any kaldorei cities before WoW. villages - maybe, but nothing large and permanently occupied.

re: Rastakhan
i always thought of the guy as the borderline incompetent, blind yet still glorious monarch. this image was based upon a mention of him during 5.2, "king of a crooked throne". you may think he was wasted as a character, but his last months and death were consistent with his previous portrayal. i don't understand why is he so lamented - just because Talanji seems lame or do you know something i don't?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I never got the impression that Rastakhan was incompetent. On the contrary, he's doing the best in the situation that the game implies he is in. When you first meet him at the beginning of BFA, he tells you that he already knows that some of his councilors are plotting against him. It is Talanji who thinks Rastakhan didn't already know that, showing that she might not be as aware as she thinks she is. The issue is that Rastakhan isn't an absolute monarch who can do anything he wants like how monarches are typically portrayed in fiction. Like real kings, he has to balance the desires of his vassals and other powerful figures within his domain, or risk being overthrown. We saw throughout Cata and MoP that there was a powerful figure within Zandalar named Zul who was behind all of these Zandalari expeditions we fight. Rastakhan almost certainly couldn't just have thrown him in prison or executed him. If he could have, he would have. Rastakhan runs to Bwonsamdi for aid because he is in a tight, rapidly developing situation and he needs raw strength, right now. If the events of BFA had not happened then Rastakahan would have continued trying to quietly thwart Zul and diminish his influence over the years like he was doing previously. Rastakhan's only big screw up was aligning Zandalar with the Horde. The Horde champion aided many neutral polities over the year without forcing said polity to join the Horde. Rastakahan could have repaid favor to the Horde champion without jumping headlong into their war on the side that has historically never won a war, and has been in near constant war for 40 years.

[Nymrohd]

I never got the impression that Rastakhan was incompetent. On the contrary, he's doing the best in the situation that the game implies he is in.

Beyond simply mentioning him in the ZG questline, the first time we get real lore about Rastakhan in game is the books found all over the Isle of Thunder and those most definitely depict Rastakhan as an incompetent king. Zul did not become what he did in a day; he saw the Cataclysm ahead of time, warned Rastakhan and Rastakhan did NOTHING. He is very much high Charisma low Wisdom.

I think troll fans just built the hype around him in their heads for years until he showed up. Which is understandable, he did seem like a larger than life figure in Vanilla. Plus getting the books in the Isle of Thunder was such a massive pain, probably last achievement I completed there.

And Rastakhan went to Bwonsamdi because he was popular and that is the way they wanted to move the story. The reasonable successor to Rezan is TORCALLI but for some reason she got shafted in BfA only appearing during the mount quest for the few who got lucky and did it and without even getting a unique model. All of Zandalar is Torcalli's temple.

[Alanar]

Beyond simply mentioning him in the ZG questline, the first time we get real lore about Rastakhan in game is the books found all over the Isle of Thunder and those most definitely depict Rastakhan as an incompetent king. Zul did not become what he did in a day; he saw the Cataclysm ahead of time, warned Rastakhan and Rastakhan did NOTHING. He is very much high Charisma low Wisdom.

I think troll fans just built the hype around him in their heads for years until he showed up. Which is understandable, he did seem like a larger than life figure in Vanilla. Plus getting the books in the Isle of Thunder was such a massive pain, probably last achievement I completed there.

And Rastakhan went to Bwonsamdi because he was popular and that is the way they wanted to move the story. The reasonable successor to Rezan is TORCALLI but for some reason she got shafted in BfA only appearing during the mount quest for the few who got lucky and did it and without even getting a unique model. All of Zandalar is Torcalli's temple.

The thing with bfa with him is he actually knew things were going on as he told to the player. Pre bfa lore didnt quite match.. I would sayn, According to that, zandalar sank and what we got was just a side of nazmir that was flooded appearntly. If you didnt catch it before playing bfa, you didnt miss much as it was changed mostly. What we got was much grander then what we thought initially.

He stood up pretty early on in the expansion. He wasnt incompetent, he was slacking pretty much. He needed a slap in the face, which he got and he actually got some things done. Ye he was a flawed leader, but that is precicely what people drew to him, that and hes charisma.

He clearly loved hes people and died for them literally. I do miss the guy, he was kinda goofy, but a fun and interesting character. It showed when it was clear Talanji just wasnt as popular. Bfa was powerwoman expansion so he had to go.

I was lucky to see her and also got the mount. You can see bulwark of torcali walking on the pyramid after the events.

[Nymrohd]

The thing with bfa with him is he actually knew things were going on as he told to the player. Pre bfa lore didnt quite match.. I would sayn, According to that, zandalar sank and what we got was just a side of nazmir that was flooded appearntly. If you didnt catch it before playing bfa, you didnt miss much as it was changed mostly. What we got was much grander then what we thought initially.

He stood up pretty early on in the expansion. He wasnt incompetent, he was slacking pretty much. He needed a slap in the face, which he got and he actually got some things done. Ye he was a flawed leader, but that is precicely what people drew to him, that and hes charisma.

He clearly loved hes people and died for them literally. I do miss the guy, he was kinda goofy, but a fun and interesting character. It showed when it was clear Talanji just wasnt as popular. Bfa was powerwoman expansion so he had to go.

Honestly I played Nazmir>Vol'dun>Zul'dazar (which I think makes the most sense as a story) so I had to see him ignore a massive threat to the north, ignore that his general was scheming against him only to come back and see him betrayed. Rastakhan was just all Charisma for sure but that's all he had. But he did make sense; heck his god behaved in the exact same way.

[Super Dickmann]

And Rastakhan went to Bwonsamdi because he was popular and that is the way they wanted to move the story. The reasonable successor to Rezan is TORCALLI but for some reason she got shafted in BfA only appearing during the mount quest for the few who got lucky and did it and without even getting a unique model. All of Zandalar is Torcalli's temple.

There was a serious writing shift re: Bwonsamdi going from BFA into Shadowlands's tie-ins. In BFA, Rastakhan making a deal with Bwonsamdi is very much a deal with the devil. The patronage of the kingdom isn't a minor thing and him agreeing to give his bloodline to preserve his kingdom without Talanji knowing is cast as iffy. Rastakhan isn't a tool for it, as if anything his story is about a king who's gotten too stuck in his ways getting his mojo back, but it's a choice with a high cost. Bwonsamdi doesn't mind him keeling over during their boss fight and even mocks him about it. The whole bit about life withering and dying under his purview shows is there to get across that while Bwonsamdi is an ally, he's a sketchy and ambitious one to have.

Shadows Rising makes this a lot more shallow by having Bwonsamdi be funny, but ultimately well-intentioned and drop both the death loa and the fetters on Talanji's bloodline entirely, while in SL proper he's essentially written out of the story, even if I overall like the idea of him working to topple Mueh'zala and then taking him into his torture dungeon.

Of the "young leader takes over" plot beat, Talanji is by far the most inoffensive case. She was fine in the quests, she's solid in Shadows Rising and her ascending to the throne makes sense as is the pressure she faces over it. If there's any character who got screwed it was Zul, who went from the best introduction in yonks to being a patsy for a giant tick. The whole bit about him wanting to resurrect Dazar and make him king was interesting, but completely underexplored and having that fail and only then have Zul become a giant tick worshiper would make a lot more sense. Or if I was being indulgent, just not do it at all and have the Horde have their own prophet character but eh.

[Alanar]

I never got the impression that Rastakhan was incompetent. On the contrary, he's doing the best in the situation that the game implies he is in. When you first meet him at the beginning of BFA, he tells you that he already knows that some of his councilors are plotting against him. It is Talanji who thinks Rastakhan didn't already know that, showing that she might not be as aware as she thinks she is. The issue is that Rastakhan isn't an absolute monarch who can do anything he wants like how monarches are typically portrayed in fiction. Like real kings, he has to balance the desires of his vassals and other powerful figures within his domain, or risk being overthrown. We saw throughout Cata and MoP that there was a powerful figure within Zandalar named Zul who was behind all of these Zandalari expeditions we fight. Rastakhan almost certainly couldn't just have thrown him in prison or executed him. If he could have, he would have. Rastakhan runs to Bwonsamdi for aid because he is in a tight, rapidly developing situation and he needs raw strength, right now. If the events of BFA had not happened then Rastakahan would have continued trying to quietly thwart Zul and diminish his influence over the years like he was doing previously. Rastakhan's only big screw up was aligning Zandalar with the Horde. The Horde champion aided many neutral polities over the year without forcing said polity to join the Horde. Rastakahan could have repaid favor to the Horde champion without jumping headlong into their war on the side that has historically never won a war, and has been in near constant war for 40 years.

This was my impression as well, people make it seem he was not aware, but it was talanji who maybe like you said wasnt as aware as she thinks.

[Lahis]

They had several cities as early as Knaak's 2004 War of the Ancients novel, which was only 2 years after WC3 released. IIRC there was no Kaldorei city in the Teldrassil area at the time the Sundering happened. The Stormrage Brothers and Tyrande lived in a city closer towards the center of (the megacontinent) Kalimdor, and the people fled West when the flood came. They reached Mount Hyjal and were saved from the flood.

Highborne led Kaldorei Empire and the post Sundering Kaldorei are very different people. They had cities before the world blew up. They didn't rebuild them afterwards.

The home city for Stormrages and Tyrande is Suramar. It was in Val'sharah they first met Cenarius.

[Nathanyel]

My problem with it being on dragon isles (how sure are you people that it's really being on dragon isles?) is that blizzard Abaddons landmasses the moment the prepatch of the next X-Pac hits. Why can't they properly integrate old land into the current content? This really puzzles me and it's also very inefficient and wasteful in terms of real money

But that's exactly what they're doing here, establishing a reason to revisit the Dragon Isles later on.

no, the concept of city itself is un-kaldorei.

Indeed, the new tree might be the center, the official new capital, but relevant settlements (e.g. for Heritage and other storylines) could be all over the former Kalimdor.

Outland hasn't been relevant after TBC. Northrend hasn't been relevant after Wrath. The Cata zones of Hyjal/Uldum/Vashjr/Twilight Highlands haven't been relevant after Cata. Pandaria hasn't been relevant after MoP. AU Draenor hasn't been relevant after WoD. The list goes on. The Dragon Isles won't be relevant after DF.

And therefore no attempts should be made to improve?

To agree with you on another matter, though:

I think Rastakhan dying was okay. You can't have a world war without people dying and major changes happening, or at least the semblance of it.

Rastakhan was a barely mentioned character before, and story-wise, even he seemed to realize his rule was coming to an end one way or the other. He obviously gave Talanji more free rein as a preparation for her ascension to the throne, to give his people a fresh but loved face, who would also be more able to stand up to the Zanchuli Council.

Although I would have changed his death to the Alliance raid weakening him for capture (which was the actual intention, despite different portrayal on Horde side - a repeat mistake of BfA storytelling, giving two accounts both presented as factual) but then the Widow's Bite swoops in to deliver the deathblow, aided by K'thir, to foreshadow the end of the expansion as well as the events of Shadows Rising.
The Alliance gets the full blame anyway, and the Horde pursues Jaina as seen.

[Nymrohd]

Of the "young leader takes over" plot beat, Talanji is by far the most inoffensive case. She was fine in the quests, she's solid in Shadows Rising and her ascending to the throne makes sense as is the pressure she faces over it. If there's any character who got screwed it was Zul, who went from the best introduction in yonks to being a patsy for a giant tick. The whole bit about him wanting to resurrect Dazar and make him king was interesting, but completely underexplored and having that fail and only then have Zul become a giant tick worshiper would make a lot more sense. Or if I was being indulgent, just not do it at all and have the Horde have their own prophet character but eh.

I still cannot fathom the entire G'huun storyline. We have a society that is blood focused in the blood trolls and a villain who is strongly related to plague preparing to assault Zandalar. Now where have I heard that before . . .
Why did they not use Hakkar? He has been the nemesis of the trolls from the start. He was free to act after the ZG dungeon! Have Zul be his equal partner. Explain why he is so much more evil than other loa. Heck explain wtf is wrong with wind serpent wild gods (Sethe was the Wind Serpent Wild God of Draenor, also evil, also used his cursed blood to plague and mutate people). Perhaps tie him to the Old Gods and find a way to tie in Uldir to that. And what happened to Dazar???

[Nathanyel]

The whole bit about life withering and dying under his purview shows is there to get across that while Bwonsamdi is an ally, he's a sketchy and ambitious one to have.

Shadows Rising makes this a lot more shallow by having Bwonsamdi be funny, but ultimately well-intentioned and drop both the death loa and the fetters on Talanji's bloodline entirely, [...]

Bwonsamdi is an uneasy ally, doing what he pleases, one moment he enjoys laughing with you, the next he laughs about your demise.
However, I understood Talanji breaking the blood pact as her hinting that they both knew the Zandalari wouldn't accept the Loa of Death as their main deity for long.
Bwonsamdi helped defend the empire from the Blood Trolls, Mythrax and Ghuun, and got his due for that, but essentially, he was a Winston Churchill, not loved but useful, elected to win the war, then immediately removed from office after.