The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Focusing on the cosmetic progression, they are clearly going in that way with the Trading Post, and I could easily see this expanded so that we always have something to look up forward, a pet, a mount, class-only accesories, class-only sets, class-only magics and skills effects, hairstyles... you could put practically anything in a system like this, and it would not affect player power a bit. This is the way (IMO).

The trading post is not progression though. Anyone who actually plays the game will naturally cap it without even looking at the activities listed in it. It's just a passive system.

[Darkarath]

The trading post is not progression though. Anyone who actually plays the game will naturally cap it without even looking at the activities listed in it. It's just a passive system.

Agreed, but Blizzard is introducing evergreen systems. I have little doubt that the Trading Post system will be iterated on. Is already an amazing system but it has a lot of potential IMO.

[Alanar]

The archetypal warrior of Warcraft is Grom Hellscream. Both of Grom's main cinematic actions involved him leaping and landing his axe on the face of Mannoroth. If that's not heroic leap, I don't know what is.

At the same time the idea that a berserker jumping on an enemy just with raw strength is the same visually and thematically with a paladin growing wings of light momentarily to propel himself in the air and land on their enemies . . . is just wrong. It is different enough visually to allow more than once class to use it. Really, exclusivity of mechanics is silly when the mechanics are skinned radically different.

No its not wrong, like I said we have so many examples ingame and outside of paladins leaping, alot more so then warriors. We even have npcs using this. Gameplay is obviously different as heroic leap isnt a jump and attack thing. But I guess it looked cool for the cinematic you refering to.

Paladin makes way more sense if you look at all examples.

Ye are free to diasagree ofc, but you cant say its just a warrior thing.

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The things that warriors have done for over a decade+ with the "leap into the fray" fantasy is not really a warrior thing.

k.

Meanwhile, the noble knight on a steed is not fitting for a paladin.

Give me one example of noble knight. Its really a bad fantasy that is really more of a dk thing. Hell even your watcraft 3 undead hero dk rides a mount 24/7.

We have one example of grommash in a cinamatic, because its been around for some time, its obviously difficult to look past that, but we have way more examples of paladins.

[Nymrohd]

Ye are free to diasagree ofc, but you cant say its just a warrior thing.

That's fine because I never did. I just said it very much is also a warrior thing.

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As for paladins and mounted combat; I think the class mount came entirely out of D&D's influence while the Divine Steed ability is straight out of Diablo 3 (only without all the cool Diablo 3 runes for it). I agree it's not really based on Warcraft fantasy but ultimately I think Warcraft generally stayed away from depicting much mounted combat probably because they never included any of it in gameplay.

[Berkilak]

As for paladins and mounted combat; I think the class mount came entirely out of D&D's influence while the Divine Steed ability is straight out of Diablo 3 (only without all the cool Diablo 3 runes for it). I agree it's not really based on Warcraft fantasy but ultimately I think Warcraft generally stayed away from depicting much mounted combat probably because they never included any of it in gameplay.

[Nymrohd]

True, that's the WC2 Paladin right?

[Berkilak]

True, that's the WC2 Paladin right?

It is. That was what I always assumed was the inspiration. It always felt off to me in WCIII when Paladins lost their horses and Horde just straight up lost death knights.

[Nymrohd]

It is. That was what I always assumed was the inspiration. It always felt off to me in WCIII when Paladins lost their horses and Horde just straight up lost death knights.

Given the story of WC2 Death Knights it would have made no sense for WC3 horde to have them. No warlocks.

[Alanar]

True, that's the WC2 Paladin right?

Yes, you could upgrade a knight into that I believe.

They seem to dropp that in warcraft 3, when see the paladin hero on foot and the dk on a horse.

Dont get me wrong the steed is definitely a part of the paladin and we have some examples, the vanilla horse quest and the Argent crusade faction in wrath. I would say the Argent crusade is the biggest if not the only example that is still currently in the game.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, you could upgrade a knight into that I believe.

They seem to dropp that in warcraft 3, when see the paladin hero on foot and the dk on a horse.

Dont get me wrong the steed is definitely a part of the paladin and we have some examples, the vanilla horse quest and the Argent crusade faction in wrath. I would say the Argent crusade is the biggest if not the only example that is still currently in the game.

I'll reiterate, I think the only reason they never invested more in the concept was that they failed at mounted combat (which was supposed to be part of WotLK but never even made it to beta and became the stupid minigames in the Tournament). The DKs barely kept the theme more than the paladins because of the Four Horsemen and even then that is clearly not that thematic to Warcraft, it is just a strong theme in general that WoW adopted for Naxx.

[Alanar]

I'll reiterate, I think the only reason they never invested more in the concept was that they failed at mounted combat (which was supposed to be part of WotLK but never even made it to beta and became the stupid minigames in the Tournament). The DKs barely kept the theme more than the paladins because of the Four Horsemen and even then that is clearly not that thematic to Warcraft, it is just a strong theme in general that WoW adopted for Naxx.

I kept saying the fantasy was stupid, but that has partly to do with that idiotic mounted combat. I really hated back then. To not even start about that dungeon. Grab a spear in one of the barrels.. Really the execution was terrible and I think they thought so to indeed.

Death knight have kept that fantasy their whole tifespam. The units, the hero's and horseman and the player. We have the intro questline for dks that have a few quests specifally about their steed.
Honestly, think about this: give dks the paladin steed spell and change it into and undead version, idk call it horsemans call or something in place of deaths advance ( I mean what is that??) Honestly I would totally get that fantasy, more so then paladins.

After that, give paladins the turalyon leap, done

[Makorus]

Everytime a class gets a reskinned ability from another class it just seems a bit shit.

I get that there's not much you can do with things like Interrupt, but atleast they tried with the DH one for example by making it do something else.

Blink loses it's appeal when other classes have Blink etc.etc.

Heroic Leap has nothing Paladin-y about it. If you give it to Paladins, you might as well give it to DKs, Shamans, Mages, who else?

[Skildar]

it feels to me that this has a lot to do with racial paladin mount skin. They want the ability to showcase it, which I think is a great thing. I have no issue with the ability and the leap could be interesting as well. They should probably do it the same way they let monks choose between roll and dash.

[Berkilak]

Given the story of WC2 Death Knights it would have made no sense for WC3 horde to have them. No warlocks.

I mean, very true, but the story was entirely made up. It's not like history didn't unfold in a way that made that continuity incongruous. They had writers. Writers made decisions. And that decisions made the Horde lose death knights. They were my second favourite unit, so I was disappointed.

[Alanar]

Everytime a class gets a reskinned ability from another class it just seems a bit shit.

I get that there's not much you can do with things like Interrupt, but atleast they tried with the DH one for example by making it do something else.

Blink loses it's appeal when other classes have Blink etc.etc.

Heroic Leap has nothing Paladin-y about it. If you give it to Paladins, you might as well give it to DKs, Shamans, Mages, who else?

Yea, I get why what you mean, but I would feel fine with this particular one.

We are not talking about heroic leap itself, there is a npc version ability that was linked one page ago. Its been in the game since wod I believe. We see multiple paladin npcs use this, its more of a powerup, wings animation and leaping with your sword to the target landin with a concentration.
We have Liadrin and that dreanei lady in 2 cinematics, using wings and leap exactly like the ingame abillity.

In 10.07 ptr this was found again, super early on. Sparked a lot of excitement in the paladin community. We have seen this suggestion here and on officials by players many times. It was an ability debated on by the team, but dropped and explained in an interview why, so dont worry paladins wont get this anytime soon.

[Shadowferal]

[Nymrohd]

Yea, I get why what you mean, but I would feel fine with this particular one.

We are not talking about heroic leap itself, there is a npc version ability that was linked one page ago. Its been in the game since wod I believe. We see multiple paladin npcs use this, its more of a powerup, wings animation and leaping with your sword to the target landin with a concentration.
We have Liadrin and that dreanei lady in 2 seperate cinematic, using wings and leap exactly like the ingame abillity. In 10.07 ptr this was found again, super early on. Sparked a lot of excitement in the paladin community. We have seen this suggestion here and on officials by players many times. It was an ability debated on by the team, but dropped and explained in an interview why, so dont worry paladins wont get this anytime soon.

It was actually planned for Legion. When they were doing the class blogs for Legion, one of the things shown for Paladins was Turalyon's Might which was a more mechanically complex version of a leap

[Alanar]

Yes it was mentioned.

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It was actually planned for Legion. When they were doing the class blogs for Legion, one of the things shown for Paladins was Turalyon's Might which was a more mechanically complex version of a leap

Thats true, see .. I forgot about that completely.

[Nathanyel]

What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

*scribbles down* "do good thing, not bad thing". Now that's valuable feedback!

[Makabreska]

What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

So like, exactly what we are having right now?