1. #4541
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because it's a waste of resources and will be outdated again come the next expansion.
    No it's not, and no it wouldn't. I've been playing WoD, Legion and BfA lately. Those expansion feel fresh and not outdated at all. The only outdated thing are the cinematics in general.

  2. #4542
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because it's a waste of resources and will be outdated again come the next expansion.
    Just like most expansion?

  3. #4543
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Just like most expansion?
    The latter, yes. The former, not so much except for Cataclysm (duh).

  4. #4544
    I really like DF, but as a very casual player these days, I have to say that I spent most of my WoW time in old content. It is just so relaxing to kill stuf easily while farming mounts, pets, reps...

    As I have previously stated, a world revamp CANNOT destroy current continents.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  5. #4545
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

    At this point everything beside a partial or full world revamp looks super clueless to me. I hope the tree is not a bad sign and I hope that they don't create some weird a**pull again like WoD, even though the night elf super nerd in me would love a time travel xpac to ancient kalimdor

    I hope we see soon where the main story is going. Currently there is not much being discovered by data miners
    I can't see how Ancient Kalimdor could be done. It's fucking massive, probably more than double an old world revamp in size and what would their excuse even be for keeping us in the 4-5 zones they want us in?
    I'd love us to be able to visit places in the past but only in a limited format where we get in and out. I think Cavern of Times could easily be the base of something like that; remake it using all the assets from the Temporal Conflux, move all the TW things there and if it was up to me; add a solo to small group scenario content with power ups similar to Torghast that sends us through the timeways to numerous locations in Azeroth's pasts or alternate futures, reusing existing mobs and assets and even full maps to create a lot of variety. Send us to important events and have us fight as part of different forces while also stopping the Infinites. Make it a scaling difficulty like M+, fill it with cosmetics and let it award gear through the Vault but limited to HC ilvl since it can be done solo.

  6. #4546
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I can't see how Ancient Kalimdor could be done. It's fucking massive, probably more than double an old world revamp in size and what would their excuse even be for keeping us in the 4-5 zones they want us in?
    I'd love us to be able to visit places in the past but only in a limited format where we get in and out. I think Cavern of Times could easily be the base of something like that; remake it using all the assets from the Temporal Conflux, move all the TW things there and if it was up to me; add a solo to small group scenario content with power ups similar to Torghast that sends us through the timeways to numerous locations in Azeroth's pasts or alternate futures, reusing existing mobs and assets and even full maps to create a lot of variety. Send us to important events and have us fight as part of different forces while also stopping the Infinites. Make it a scaling difficulty like M+, fill it with cosmetics and let it award gear through the Vault but limited to HC ilvl since it can be done solo.
    Ancient Kalimdor would be an expansion at most but still have issues. I think the only way that would work is if the right tech allowed for faster creation of landscape/terrain to really show how big the continent was. Doesn't help that most races didn't exist in that timeframe. Sure they could turn everyone into Nelves or other race for story purposes but I am not confident that is a good sell to people. I could tolerate it I suppose but again, hard sell for the masses.


    Edit: I mean I could be proven wrong but this is based on what I see Blizzard can do.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2023-04-23 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  7. #4547
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Ancient Kalimdor would be an expansion at most but still have issues. I think the only way that would work is if the right tech allowed for faster creation of landscape/terrain to really show how big the continent was. Doesn't help that most races didn't exist in that timeframe. Sure they could turn everyone into Nelves or other race for story purposes but I am not confident that is a good sell to people. I could tolerate it I suppose but again, hard sell for the masses.


    Edit: I mean I could be proven wrong but this is based on what I see Blizzard can do.
    I could see instead an AU version where Azshara finds a way to change history and retain her empire and we land in the middle of it, find some rebellion against her and join it. Something in which EVERYONE is our enemy.

  8. #4548
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post


    I hope that Blizzard introduces the paladin leap ability, Wings of Liberty, that was datamined on the 10.07 PTR. We sprout wings during Avenging Wrath, but we can't use them for mobility? NPC paladins leap all of the time in Warcraft. Tirion at the Battle of Light's Hope Chapel and at the climax of WotLK. Turalyon can leap during Argus questing, and his son Arathor can leap as a paladin class order hall follower. And that's not touching upon other official art, TCG art, novels and short stories, etc.
    It's called Falling Sword in D3.
    If anything, they should copy more of this RPG's abilities into Wow.

  9. #4549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post


    I hope that Blizzard introduces the paladin leap ability, Wings of Liberty, that was datamined on the 10.07 PTR. We sprout wings during Avenging Wrath, but we can't use them for mobility? NPC paladins leap all of the time in Warcraft. Tirion at the Battle of Light's Hope Chapel and at the climax of WotLK. Turalyon can leap during Argus questing, and his son Arathor can leap as a paladin class order hall follower. And that's not touching upon other official art, TCG art, novels and short stories, etc.
    Damn you are late to the party. This has been asked and discussed on the ptr forums since it was datamined and again on the whole 10.07.

    We even got an anwser from a blue, saying they dont want to much overlap with other classes and we have tried things blabla. It was a very weak anwser, but it just didnt make it and probably never will. Just to save u sone time.

    Next to a few people who like steed, the majority simply never liked it since it implentation. Its just a very lame fantasy that doesnt really fit imo. Using your steed like that in combat is a dk thing. I mean name me one famous or known character that is not from the colleseum or hearthstone.
    I will help, there isnt. We have seen more golden wings leaping in the air then any paladin on a mount. Including cinematics. If anything, its not really a warrior thing actually. But obviously that made some warriors mad, but its true.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2023-04-24 at 07:38 AM.

  10. #4550
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

    At this point everything beside a partial or full world revamp looks super clueless to me. I hope the tree is not a bad sign and I hope that they don't create some weird a**pull again like WoD, even though the night elf super nerd in me would love a time travel xpac to ancient kalimdor

    I hope we see soon where the main story is going. Currently there is not much being discovered by data miners
    While Azerite gear was bullshit, I still don't think max level progression is bullshit. Essences if made more alt friendly were a vibrant system. Covenants after the ridiculous exclusivity was ripped off in 9.1.5 were a solid system as well (though imo it suffered thematically from not being grounded in Warcraft enough). Artifacts would have been perfectly servicable without the infinite progression.

  11. #4551
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Damn you are late to the party. This has been asked and discussed on the ptr forums since it was datamined and again on the whole 10.07.

    We even got an anwser from a blue, saying they dont want to much overlap with other classes and we have tried things blabla. It was a very weak anwser, but it just didnt make it and probably never will. Just to save u sone time.

    Next to a few people who like steed, the majority simply never liked it since it implentation. Its just a very lame fantasy that doesnt really fit imo. Using your steed like that in combat is a dk thing. I mean name me one famous or known character that is not from the colleseum or hearthstone.
    I will help, there isnt. We have seen more golden wings leaping in the air then any paladin on a mount. Including cinematics. If anything, its not really a warrior thing actually. But obviously that made some warriors mad, but its true.
    The things that warriors have done for over a decade+ with the "leap into the fray" fantasy is not really a warrior thing.

    k.

    Meanwhile, the noble knight on a steed is not fitting for a paladin.
    Last edited by Schwert; 2023-04-24 at 11:18 AM.

  12. #4552
    The archetypal warrior of Warcraft is Grom Hellscream. Both of Grom's main cinematic actions involved him leaping and landing his axe on the face of Mannoroth. If that's not heroic leap, I don't know what is.

    At the same time the idea that a berserker jumping on an enemy just with raw strength is the same visually and thematically with a paladin growing wings of light momentarily to propel himself in the air and land on their enemies . . . is just wrong. It is different enough visually to allow more than once class to use it. Really, exclusivity of mechanics is silly when the mechanics are skinned radically different.

  13. #4553
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While Azerite gear was bullshit, I still don't think max level progression is bullshit. Essences if made more alt friendly were a vibrant system. Covenants after the ridiculous exclusivity was ripped off in 9.1.5 were a solid system as well (though imo it suffered thematically from not being grounded in Warcraft enough). Artifacts would have been perfectly servicable without the infinite progression.
    The thing is that all these systems are not sustainable. They are borrowed power and thank god that they are moving away from it. I agree that the Essence system of 8.2 was by far the best kind of borrowed system that we have had, but you cannot keep adding and balancing essences forever. The only kind of max level progression system that would work is something that is just cosmetic or that buffs you against just PvE enemies in the open world, similar to what we have with the Maruuk Centaur but expanded, but nothing crazy like increasing your damage a lot all the time.

    Focusing on the cosmetic progression, they are clearly going in that way with the Trading Post, and I could easily see this expanded so that we always have something to look up forward, a pet, a mount, class-only accesories, class-only sets, class-only magics and skills effects, hairstyles... you could put practically anything in a system like this, and it would not affect player power a bit. This is the way (IMO).
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  14. #4554
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Focusing on the cosmetic progression, they are clearly going in that way with the Trading Post, and I could easily see this expanded so that we always have something to look up forward, a pet, a mount, class-only accesories, class-only sets, class-only magics and skills effects, hairstyles... you could put practically anything in a system like this, and it would not affect player power a bit. This is the way (IMO).
    The trading post is not progression though. Anyone who actually plays the game will naturally cap it without even looking at the activities listed in it. It's just a passive system.

  15. #4555
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The trading post is not progression though. Anyone who actually plays the game will naturally cap it without even looking at the activities listed in it. It's just a passive system.
    Agreed, but Blizzard is introducing evergreen systems. I have little doubt that the Trading Post system will be iterated on. Is already an amazing system but it has a lot of potential IMO.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  16. #4556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The archetypal warrior of Warcraft is Grom Hellscream. Both of Grom's main cinematic actions involved him leaping and landing his axe on the face of Mannoroth. If that's not heroic leap, I don't know what is.

    At the same time the idea that a berserker jumping on an enemy just with raw strength is the same visually and thematically with a paladin growing wings of light momentarily to propel himself in the air and land on their enemies . . . is just wrong. It is different enough visually to allow more than once class to use it. Really, exclusivity of mechanics is silly when the mechanics are skinned radically different.
    No its not wrong, like I said we have so many examples ingame and outside of paladins leaping, alot more so then warriors. We even have npcs using this. Gameplay is obviously different as heroic leap isnt a jump and attack thing. But I guess it looked cool for the cinematic you refering to.

    Paladin makes way more sense if you look at all examples.

    Ye are free to diasagree ofc, but you cant say its just a warrior thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    The things that warriors have done for over a decade+ with the "leap into the fray" fantasy is not really a warrior thing.

    k.

    Meanwhile, the noble knight on a steed is not fitting for a paladin.
    Give me one example of noble knight. Its really a bad fantasy that is really more of a dk thing. Hell even your watcraft 3 undead hero dk rides a mount 24/7.

    We have one example of grommash in a cinamatic, because its been around for some time, its obviously difficult to look past that, but we have way more examples of paladins.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2023-04-24 at 01:04 PM.

  17. #4557
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Ye are free to diasagree ofc, but you cant say its just a warrior thing.
    That's fine because I never did. I just said it very much is also a warrior thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for paladins and mounted combat; I think the class mount came entirely out of D&D's influence while the Divine Steed ability is straight out of Diablo 3 (only without all the cool Diablo 3 runes for it). I agree it's not really based on Warcraft fantasy but ultimately I think Warcraft generally stayed away from depicting much mounted combat probably because they never included any of it in gameplay.

  18. #4558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    As for paladins and mounted combat; I think the class mount came entirely out of D&D's influence while the Divine Steed ability is straight out of Diablo 3 (only without all the cool Diablo 3 runes for it). I agree it's not really based on Warcraft fantasy but ultimately I think Warcraft generally stayed away from depicting much mounted combat probably because they never included any of it in gameplay.

  19. #4559
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    True, that's the WC2 Paladin right?

  20. #4560
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    True, that's the WC2 Paladin right?
    It is. That was what I always assumed was the inspiration. It always felt off to me in WCIII when Paladins lost their horses and Horde just straight up lost death knights.

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