The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Holdodlig]

We literally beat Aggramar into submission without anyones help.

We had artifacts, Aggramar was probably still weakened by the mind control process. Legion and BFA were the point the player was the most powerful in term of lore. But I agree we'll probably kill a titan if we are fighting them.

[kavikor]

The Universe wasn't a thing before the Progenitor's pattern.

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Just means he was serving Zovaal while under "false masters" in Maldraxxus.

I think the cosmic forces were a thing prior to the first ones, they just went in and "ordered" it all in a way that they'd overlap and create the like 'known' universe, right?

[Harbour]

This is a direct transcript of the images, and if you look at them, it's not really as believable anymore.

I dont know, it gets quite many things right and if to keep in mind that studio works with many ideas and not all of them comes out of concept phase, you have pretty meaty details OP couldnt just predict back then. Like:

Talks of loosening faction barriers so people can play with both sides or do quests for the other faction but he doubts it will go anywhere as it is just talk. Allow more interactions if War Mode is off. Orcs in SW, NE's in "horde" guilds, etc.

that was made real in DF. (well partly real)
Or Sylvanas working for the Death God.
And OP talks way too confident about DF and Elune stuff that happens with NElves and Tyrande in SL even though it seems OP wrote this stuff before 8.3.
Im even willing to presume that he got some BFA/SL stuff wrong because he didnt foresee Danuser rewriting some of it.

[Ferlion]

Wasn't he heavily weakened and tortured?

We were also stronger than we've ever been before or since, and probably will ever be again lorewise.

Some of our characters were using weapons that destroyed planets, rendered entire areas unlivable, etc.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"I like the Titans, I no like when something bigger than Titans" is literally all you needed to say.

Seems pointless to explain this but:

They don't do anything to affect "stakes". They're a mystery element that adds macro context to the setting. It's basically the role the Titans had pre-Legion, before they were entities we knew and interacted with, but with even more ambiguity. We can name Titans, we can't name the First Ones. We just know they created the cosmos, and what their magic/creations are like. It gives the universe a decent bit more mystery to work with, from a writing perspective.

We already had something bigger then the titans with the void lords and presumed light lords, size ain’t the issue.

The issue is discarding or retconning years of established lore and build up based around the titans for a shit idea that came out of no where and is now suppose to be above them and every other powe we have been interacting with since WC2.

[Makorus]

Wasn't he heavily weakened and tortured?

Mentioned nowhere.

He seems alright in this cutscene and he has no qualms of trying to take us out himself right away.

[kavikor]

All restrictions...?

Earthen is a weird choice, they're Allied Race material.

If its Earthern as we know them def a weird choice, if its some kind of heavily altered model that uses the dwarf skeleton it could be a pretty high effort race.
But who knows? I always get hyped for new races/classes and prepare to disappoint myself, I'd rather get Earthern than nothing

[Harbour]

He would've mentioned a dragon class if this was actually legit. They talked about how Dracthyr/Evoker was on the table the moment they decided on a dragon expansion because of the perfect fit for a new caster, there is absolutely no way they worked on Tinker before they started working on Evoker.

He actually mentioned Dragonsworn class planned for Druids but then relegated to its own class.

[JMitchy96]

The Universe wasn't a thing before the Progenitor's pattern.

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Just means he was serving Zovaal while under "false masters" in Maldraxxus.

What? I think you and I played a different SL. His speech in SoD was targeted at the player characters, who he last saw during his third death in Naxxramas. He was absolutely talking about pretending to serve the Lich King/Arthas whilst being loyal to Zovaal - why would we give a fuck about him pretending to serve the Margraves?. And like I said, if that wasn't the intention of the writers, they fucked up massively.

[kavikor]

We already had something bigger then the titans with the void lords and presumed light lords, size ain’t the issue.

The issue is discarding or retconning years of established lore and build up based around the titans for a shit idea that came out of no where and is now suppose to be above them and every other powe we have been interacting with since WC2.

my biggest issue with the First Ones is how not-warcraft they feel. Conceptually a higher being who organizes the world through math magic could be cool in a different IP, but having the gods be in robot vessels and little machines organizing the realms of death is just the worst, most sour taste that could've spoiled one of once cool concepts of warcraft (Death, Scourge, the Lich King) imo

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We literally beat Aggramar into submission without anyones help.

Yes Aggramar who was a shadow of his former self without a body who’s soul flew across the universe to give away power at the time of his death before being scooped back up and tortured into submission against his will.

[bruxx]

He actually mentioned Dragonsworn class planned for Druids but then relegated to its own class.

If we are to believe blizzard's interview, Dracthyr came first and Evokers came later conceptually.

[Triceron]

If we are to believe blizzard's interview, Dracthyr came first and Evokers came later conceptually.

Any source for this? Just curious and would like to see.

[Ersula]

We already had something bigger then the titans with the void lords and presumed light lords, size ain’t the issue.

The issue is discarding or retconning years of established lore and build up based around the titans for a shit idea that came out of no where and is now suppose to be above them and every other powe we have been interacting with since WC2.

You're really just taking issue with the chicken or egg thought experiment: Everything has a creator. There is always something higher up, and fantasy & science fiction always has to address that eventually.

[Dragon ANX]

There's easily a chance Dracthyr/Evoker were not in the pipeline/confirmed at that moment in time. Dragonflight was only in its conceptual stage at that point. As soon as they committed to it, they probably then got to the Dracthyr. Tinker may have been scrapped/postponed for a number of reasons. There's story/info here that are just too close to the truth for it to be an outsider's lucky guess.

I kinda agree, but a huge number of things have changed from then to now or have happened that altered the scene:

COVID.
A sexual scandal that led to many high-profile people being fired or demoted.
The Shadowlands fiasco.
The first major WoW Exodus. It was so massive that Square Enix removed FF14 from stores because they didn't have enough servers to handle the intense influx of WoW refugees.
Many prominent WoW content creators either quit WoW or turned highly negative (remember, they create significant waves).
Metzen has been back for more than a year.
The Microsoft Deal.
The Proletariat Deal.
And so on.
The last four years since 2019 have been incredibly intense

[Zankai27]

We already had something bigger then the titans with the void lords and presumed light lords, size ain’t the issue.

The issue is discarding or retconning years of established lore and build up based around the titans for a shit idea that came out of no where and is now suppose to be above them and every other powe we have been interacting with since WC2.

Sure, if you just really think the Titans need to be the end-all-be-all.

The point was to show that, upon going to a different reality in the same universe, we learn a few more things about it we wouldn't have learned before. Like, we weren't supposed to be behind that curtain, of course there'd be secrets there. The Titans probably never saw the Shadowlands either. Apart from, obviously, Argus.

The story you want works if you aren't trying to create a bigger narrative. Sorry man, that's just how it is.

Besides that, what exactly got "retconned out of oblivion" by the First Ones? We're literally doing more with the Titans right now, and it has nothing to do with the First Ones. Not because "they're deleting that lore" or anything but because it literally is irrelevant to the Titan's current developments. And in general. Like, I don't understand the ""anger"" here.

Like, they're basically a narrative device for "looking behind the curtain" and "it's a lot bigger out there than you think" and that's probably all they'll be unless we cover a different Zereth in a Void expansion. What's there to be pissed about? I don't know how to explain this further.

[Raetary]

We literally beat Aggramar into submission without anyones help.

Aggramar was a shadow of his former self, he was the first to die (literally got cleaved in half) and the first to break after Sargeras captured his soul and tormented him into submission.

[Vakir]

The binary stuff, all together, seems too good to be true.

But it would certainly get WoW back on track.

[kavikor]

Aggramar was a shadow of his former self, he was the first to die (literally got cleaved in half) and the first to break after Sargeras captured his soul and tormented him into submission.

We also had the most powerful artifacts mortals had ever wielded to defeat him.

[Well Done Steak]

So if it is karesh then I feel like ethereal are a given. I hope they're neutral but would probably be alliance because of velves.

In that case, hope horde gets ogres.