The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Darkarath]

This is wrong, I was one of the very few people in this thread who knew the Old Gods would be involved in 10.0 even before Dragonflight was announced, while most of these guys were sure that the Old Gods would not be revisited until at least 11.0.

Come on, Varodoc. Dragons and Old Gods are linked. One cannot live without the other in WoW lore. In fact, I think that Old Gods have been present in one way or another in every WoW expansion, except in WoD, maybe?

[Nebron]

This is wrong, I was one of the very few people in this thread who knew the Old Gods would be involved in 10.0 even before Dragonflight was announced, while most of these guys were sure that the Old Gods would not be revisited until at least 11.0.

Wow, this sounds a little bit like an ego-boost to be honest
And, well - as exciting as the lore drop is - how does Murozond/ Iridikron / Galakrond confirm the Old Gods presence?
As far as I know, Murozond is related to time stuff, not necessarily the Old Gods. Iridikron - we have no idea what he's up to yet. I guess Tyr suggests that Galakrond grew to it's size due to drinking the water corrupted by Yogg-Saron, but it's still: A) not a canonical thing atm; B) even if it is, it doesn't mean they will explore that part of his story.

Also, the Old Gods are ever-present in I guess every expansion to some degree, so to say that simply because they appear by name in a story, it must guarantee their major relevance to the story, seems like a stretch to me

[Marlamin]

Wow, this sounds a little bit like an ego-boost to be honest

That's how it usually goes in these threads, one day I'll not find it annoying, probably.

[Darkarath]

I am the only one dreaming about Galakrond's visage? How absolutely and insanely cool would that be?

[Khaza-R]

Dang, this video just dropped a few bombs about upcoming lore...

https://youtu.be/Qo12dBwqNYQ

- Nozdormu and Muruzond story coming up, along with "evil Chromie" (Morchie, lol). Resolution of the story promised.
- Galakrond.
- Iridikron is up to something really naughty.
- Timeywimey badness guaranteed.
- Encrypted stuff going to talk about another dragonflight group in 10.1.

Based on how much time they spent on the Bronze here, it seems like it'll be in the megadungeon. Which is sweet as heck.

So I wonder what the megadungeon will look like.

It seems pretty obvious that the entrance is the one in the Temporal Conflux.

My guess is that we'll hop through time a bunch, a bit like when we chased after Chromie and that infinite dude?

One boss encounter could be ancient Galakrond, or alternatively he could be a penultimate boss before Muruzond, sort of like a risen Galakrond (or being resurrected).

I think CoT-like megadungeon is the most likely outcome. Especially with the technology they have now, basically running through a whole myriad of timelines but in a single dungeon would be a lot fun.

[Sondrelk]

I do not see Fyrakk being defeated in a megadungeon or in a quest. I think that the Incarnates will survive DF, not all of them, but at least one. Having Galakrond defeated in a megadungeon would be pretty weird too, so I wonder what the hell will they do with him.

Well Bronze Dragonflight does mean time travel. So defeating an older version of Galakrond from before his fall wouldnt be that weird.

[Varodoc]

As far as I know, Murozond is related to time stuff, not necessarily the Old Gods.

Wrong, Murozond was created by the Old Gods when they revealed to Nozdormu his own doom and manipulated him. Murozond and his Infinite Dragonflight are just puppets of the Old Gods and that is why they were trying to usher in the End Times in Cataclysm, a timeline in which the Old Gods are triumphant and wipe out all life on the planet with their Hour of Twilight.

Iridikron - we have no idea what he's up to yet

It's obvious that the Old Gods are keeping track of his movements as N'Zoth literally predicts 10.1 in the Chromie questline, furthermore Iridrikon is the Incarnate of Earth (just like Neltharion was the Aspect of Earth, wink wink) and the Old Gods have deep connections with the Earth.

I guess Tyr suggests that Galakrond grew to it's size due to drinking the water corrupted by Yogg-Saron, but it's still: A) not a canonical thing

He doesn't "suggest" it, he outright states it when he says that Galakrond's corruption was caused by "drinking unfiltered water". And since Yogg-Saron's body sprawls all across Northrend (this is evidenced by pieces of Saronite, his crystallized blood, showing up all around Northrend), it's obvious that the Titan Keepers discovered the truth.

even if it is, it doesn't mean they will explore that part of his story.

There is nothing else in Galakrond's "story" to explore.

Galakrond is nothing more than a brainless animal.

The only contribution he can give the Story is to bring the Old Gods back into the spotlight with his actions.

[Cheezits]

Kind of surprised that Bronze seems to be the Megadungeon but it should be really fun and it does mean the ending of the expansion will be a little more interesting than LOL MUROZOND/GALAKROND.

I assume Galakrond will pop up in the Bronze dungeon, but I guess Iridikron could rezz him somehow.

[Sondrelk]

I think CoT-like megadungeon is the most likely outcome. Especially with the technology they have now, basically running through a whole myriad of timelines would be a lot fun.

Tazavesh was kinda like that. Though I think they could have leaned way more into time travel, and way less into the Broker stuff.
All kinds of fun stuff could be a boss in a time travel dungeon. We could fight villains from the Murloc timeline, or Aqir in the Black Empire. We could have ancient proto-elves using druidic powers, or even just fight a boss from a previous expansion.
Worst case would probably be 4-5 Infinite dragonflight bosses, then maybe one or two time travel bosses for flavor.

[Cheezits]

- Encrypted stuff going to talk about another dragonflight group in 10.1.

Based on speculation from twitter I think this is going to be the Netherflight, as apparently there is a Blue Dragon connected to them that hasn't been seen in a while and the Blue story is encrypted. It could easily be the Storm Drakes as well and connected to the encrypted Tyr questline.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Come on, Varodoc. Dragons and Old Gods are linked. One cannot live without the other in WoW lore. In fact, I think that Old Gods have been present in one way or another in every WoW expansion, except in WoD, maybe?

Wow, this sounds a little bit like an ego-boost to be honest

Do not engage.

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Also, looks like there's a disappointingly simple but retrospectively obvious solution to that tabard mystery from a while ago.

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Otherwise I'm quite surprised for the bad Chromie, I didn't expect it. Obviously, it looks like Nozdormu and Galakrond will be there. To see what they have in store for us.

I'm excited for Nozdormu. Couldn't care less for Chromie; she's a perfectly fine side-character, but insufferably saccharine in large doses.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Wrong, Murozond was created by the Old Gods when they revealed to Nozdormu his own doom and manipulated him. Murozond and his Infinite Dragonflight are just puppets of the Old Gods and that is why they were trying to usher in the End Times in Cataclysm, a timeline in which the Old Gods are triumphant and wipe out all life on the planet with their Hour of Twilight.

Nozrdormu was shown his death by Aman'Thul when he first got his powers and was trying to bring about the end time because it was a better future then what ever else he had seen.

[Darkarath]

Kind of surprised that Bronze seems to be the Megadungeon but it should be really fun and it does mean the ending of the expansion will be a little more interesting than LOL MUROZOND/GALAKROND.

I assume Galakrond will pop up in the Bronze dungeon, but I guess Iridikron could rezz him somehow.

I am also very surprised if this is the case. I expected 10.3 to be all about Murozond and the Infinite Dragonflight plus Iridikron doing nasty stuff. That they are wrapping up Nozdormu's fate in a minor patch when he has been the protagonist of the pre-expansion videos along with Emberthal... veeeeery unexpected, at least for me.

I hope that this does not mean that we are not getting a 10.3.

I think that Dracthyr are way more important than we think. We still do not know which is their secret. Why are they so dangerous? We might get the answer to that secret in 10.1, but it could have consequences unresolved until 10.3. We will see.

Also, what if Galakrond escapes the timelines and come to our Azeroth? The Scourge is pretty much done at this point after Shadowlands. It does not have the appeal that once have. We need a new undead threat. Galakrond would be a perfect fit to be the leader of this new ''DECAY'' thing that they are foreshadowing. He could escape to Northrend and ''contaminate'' the remaining Scourge with Decay, making a new army of the undead.

[Kiivar86]

The Sons of Hodir tabard ending up a WotLK classic thing is amusing, I had to laugh.

[Cheezits]

I am also very surprised if this is the case. I expected 10.3 to be all about Murozond and the Infinite Dragonflight plus Iridikron doing nasty stuff. That they are wrapping up Nozdormu's fate in a minor patch when he has been the protagonist of the pre-expansion videos along with Emberthal... veeeeery unexpected, at least for me.

I hope that this does not mean that we are not getting a 10.3.

I think that Dracthyr are way more important than we think. We still do not know which is their secret. Why are they so dangerous? We might get the answer to that secret in 10.1, but it could have consequences unresolved until 10.3. We will see.

Also, what if Galakrond escapes the timelines and come to our Azeroth? The Scourge is pretty much done at this point after Shadowlands. It does not have the appeal that once have. We need a new undead threat. Galakrond would be a perfect fit to be the leader of this new ''DECAY'' thing that they are foreshadowing. He could escape to Northrend and ''contaminate'' the remaining Scourge with Decay, making a new army of the undead.

I think Galakrond will either appear in the Megadungeon or the last patch, but not both. He's definitely tied to Decay/Undeath in some way, while being Old God corrupted officially now, so he doesn't HAVE to be in the time dungeon.

Maybe after the tree patch in the Dream, it turns to a Spirit vs Decay kind of thing? Iridikron could become the Incarnate of Decay and that's how we pivot away from the base elemental theme at the end/mirror Galakrond. Also lets us get some Primalist allies because it would be the Dragons and good spirit-based allies vs Decay. Also could lead to the Nathrezim appearing again (which leads to Lothraxion?)

[huth]

Along with every sentient creature in the Milky Way Galaxy, and one small pebble somewhere on a beach in South Africa.

Yeah, this is about on "the sun will rise after the night" level of prediction.

[Makabreska]

I think Galakrond will either appear in the Megadungeon or the last patch, but not both. He's definitely tied to Decay/Undeath in some way, while being Old God corrupted officially now, so he doesn't HAVE to be in the time dungeon.

Maybe after the tree patch in the Dream, it turns to a Spirit vs Decay kind of thing? Iridikron could become the Incarnate of Decay and that's how we pivot away from the base elemental theme at the end/mirror Galakrond. Also lets us get some Primalist allies because it would be the Dragons and good spirit-based allies vs Decay. Also could lead to the Nathrezim appearing again (which leads to Lothraxion?)

Galak in Megadungeon is a waste of his power level. One of the Primalists would be better.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I don't really know. I was hoping for Dragon Isles to recapture the world building of MoP. And they did make the effort, especially with the Maruuk. But it just did not land for me. It lacks the whimsy of Halfhill, the Renown questlines don't have the impact of the Klaxxi attacking the Heart of Fear or the zone wide battle vs the Mogu in the Vale or even the end of the Shado Pan questline with the black drakes. It is a vast land but it somehow feels disconnected; Pandaria had a unifying theme with a variety of clear east Asian influences in the architecture, the landscape and the music that Dragon Isles lack. And most importantly there was a wealth of new lore that somehow managed to click right in place in the old lore without being disruptive. Dragon Isles just doesn't talk about the past; the Tuskar and Maruuk almost seem transient and we get so little information on what the Dragons and their servants did in the isles and what happened in these 10k years. Honestly the only point were I felt invested in the story because it was tying well with the world of Azeroth is with Veritastrasz (sp?). It's not even that it is shallow. The Maruuk have so much detail. But they feel like someone made a table of clans and just added one element on each column (role, character, favourite color, favored combat style)

It might just be me.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Another issue with the Dragon Isles is that they aren't interesting to explore. You travelled through the Jade Forest and it felt like a real place. There were villages everywhere. There were houses by the road. There were Lorewalkers and traders walking down the road from town to town. There were little stone monuments that you could mouse over and read about people or events from the past. There were scrolls you could click on and read lore on. The place felt real, alive. The Dragon Isles don't have Pandaria's micro level of detail that made it immersive.

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I think you've hit the nail on the head. Mist left a big positive mark despite having bland three first raids and no mm+, etc. because of how the world looks and how rich a history it has. Its denizens have extensive lore and ties to races we've known, and we're discovering more and it makes sense. They've even managed to explain why the land was hidden and make it a compelling story.

I think another issue why Pandaria was compelling was that there was tension. You first visit Pandaria as the front of a world war. Then you leave that narrative for a time and get to meet the people, find out about them, begin to care about them. Then the war comes back into the narrative and imperils those people. And then the threat of the Sha and the Mogu and the Yaungol and the Zandalari and the Mantid are thrown on top, and you become very motivated to protect Pandaria. There is a sense of urgency.

There is no such threat or urgency in the Dragon Isles. The Horde and the Alliance do not send armies to fight the Primalists, but instead send boy scouts to go leisurely camping and rock climbing and taking photographs. If Azeroth's two leading superpowers do not take the antagonists seriously, why should I? The game does not endear me to the inhabitants of the Dragon Isles like Pandaria did. The other threats - the evil centaurs and gnolls - aren't threatening like the Yaungol or the Mantid or Mogu or Zandalari were built up to be either. There is no tension, nothing that wants me to keep playing and find out what happens next and if anyone I cared about gets hurt.

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As for the whining about AI art... "AI art will put artists out of work!" you have it backwards. We already have a society of bad art and no good artists. The reason why "AI art" is a phenomena now is because most modern artists are awful. Academia spent 100 years destroying art. You need to teach people how to create good art again before you can complain about the machine creating better art. Good artists like Michael Whelan are very rare and it is very difficult to find them, which is why they are booked months in advance and are expensive to contract. That's why the book industry shifted to using photoshopped book covers. The book industry has accepted that it is okay to not have art. AI art (remixing preexisting graphics) is functionally no different than photoshopped book covers, which we already have now.

The whining about AI art now is superfluous. Most of the paying gigs have either been using it already for composition purposes or were replaced by stock photos many years ago (see: photoshopped book covers). The job opportunities at the moment are the same as it was before. You just need to be really, really good to stand out above the crowd to get a gig.

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Dang, this video just dropped a few bombs about upcoming lore...

https://youtu.be/Qo12dBwqNYQ

- Nozdormu and Muruzond story coming up, along with "evil Chromie"

"Evil Chromie"? Are they implying that Eternus is Chromie? He was a completely different character. Neither behaved like Chromie at all nor even look like Chromie. He even has completely different horns, and has neck spines that Chromie does not. His foot structure is also different, with his middle claws being the biggest while Chromie's claw size goes down the further from the body they are. His scales are also different. Also missing a nose on the horn, and if he had lost it there would have been a noticeable scar. They're not the same dragon at all.



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Galakrond.

Perhaps we travel back in time and get to participate in the battle against Galakrond? Would be cool if it was done in the style of a GW2 meta event against the humongous Elder Dragons, with the raid having to mount up and split to different positions on his body.

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I am the only one dreaming about Galakrond's visage? How absolutely and insanely cool would that be?

The drakes who rejected the gift of the Titans should not turn into humanoids at all. They should be proud that they are big drakes and remain as such.

[Worldshaper]

I think CoT-like megadungeon is the most likely outcome. Especially with the technology they have now, basically running through a whole myriad of timelines but in a single dungeon would be a lot fun.

I'd love this so much. Especially if they use this opportunity to randomize the boss rooms. So instead of a linear path from A to Z, you pass through a door and you're thrown into some "random" point in the timeline (say, 1 out of 14 possible outcomes or something). It would, imo, really freshen up the pace of a dungeon. If they were super brave, they could even have fewer "boss slots" than available bosses, so you may only fight 14 random bosses out of 18 available ones or something, each run.

This is also a great opportunity to have loot from different eras and locations. Throw in a couple of Titan-themed relics from the time of Galakrond, maybe a few Night Elf weapons from the War of the Ancients, and why not some cool Troll-themed mount from pre-history.

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"Evil Chromie"? Are they implying that Eternus is Chromie? He was a completely different character. Neither behaved like Chromie at all nor even look like Chromie. He even has completely different horns, and has neck spines that Chromie does not. His foot structure is also different, with his middle claws being the biggest while Chromie's claw size goes down the further from the body they are. His scales are also different. Also missing a nose on the horn, and if he had lost it there would have been a noticeable scar. They're not the same dragon at all.
.

They called evil Chromie "Morchie", not sure if that was a joke based on how they named Muruzond, or if it's the actual name.

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Yeah, this is about on "the sun will rise after the night" level of prediction.

Kind of.

I've been making these bold "The Old Gods are behind it all!" threads on various forums for the past couple of years, and I'm humble enough to admit that when I do, I always borrow material from the public discourse and fragments of theories already taking shape within the community. It's basically impossible to be "first" with any idea, despite how much the likes of Bellular and T&E like to suggest they often are.

[Darkarath]

"Evil Chromie"? Are they implying that Eternus is Chromie? He was a completely different character. Neither behaved like Chromie at all nor even look like Chromie. He even has completely different horns, and has neck spines that Chromie does not. His foot structure is also different, with his middle claws being the biggest while Chromie's claw size goes down the further from the body they are. His scales are also different. Also missing a nose on the horn, and if he had lost it there would have been a noticeable scar. They're not the same dragon at all.

The drakes who rejected the gift of the Titans should not turn into humanoids at all. They should be proud that they are big drakes and remain as such.

Chromie is not Eternus. Evil Chromie is Morchie. It is stated in the video.

The Incarnates have visage forms. Kind of humanoid. Why Galakrond would not have one?