The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

How is War Within close to Endwalker

Not TWW specifically.

Trying to make this about a big bombastic 20 year story capstone after saying SL was that (lol) with a planet whispering to the main characters who are forming their own little coalition rather than tying in the actual sociopolitical mainstays of the larger world who by all accounts should be assisting...

I'll be surprised if I don't see further similarities, but it's a start. Not necessarily a bad thing, either.

And? Time Travel has also been awesome in WoW. Like the Caverns of Time stuff is always recieved really well. People like bronze shenanigans. Just because WoD turned into a train wreck doesn't mean it always will be.

WoD wasn't bad because it was a time travel expansion. It was bad for pretty much every reason except that one.

Basically everything they've ever done with time travel outside of WoD (remember Caverns of Time?) has been extremely well received by the player base.

We have never, even in the newest mega-dungeon, permanently changed major cornerstones of the story THAT extensively with no ambiguity of recurrence. If that happens, it's gonna be a rough sell on how anything works later unless time magic as a concept is completely removed from the equation. I mean, it no longer exists. In any capacity.

[ercarp]

it could be it - but 'sunwell' does not exist for a long time

Wasn't the Sunwell restored during the events of TBC? I don't recall anything bad happening to it after that.

[Cheezits]

it could be it - but 'sunwell' does not exist for a long time

in my opinion - it will be a start of (partial) revamp

and I see it as *the culling of stratholme invaded by infinite dragons*
(Quel'thalas & Voids)

The Sunwell is back at the end of TBC. We visit it in BFA.

[Vakir]

Wasn't the Sunwell restored during the events of TBC? I don't recall anything bad happening to it after that.

It had a run-in with shadowy stuff when Alleria visited, but I think it's still generally fine long-term.

and I see it as *the culling of stratholme invaded by infinite dragons*
(Quel'thalas & Voids)

The thing that already happened 7 expansions ago?

[ercarp]

Sure, why not. Perhaps it's a Light/Void item of some kind, which Xal'atath wanted to use to turn Light into Shadow at the Sunwell. But as she took it across time and space, it swept across the Arathi Highlands and a bunch of humans got swept along for the ride. Then it crashed into Hallowfall (basically means holy fall), leaving the humans stranded.

Man, you're full of cool ideas.

Here's hoping we get some time traveling Arathi action in 11.0.

[Raetary]

Are we still talking about time travel?

There is no damn time travel.

[pacotaco]

I mean, if Hero Talents don't end up being the retail version of what they're doing with SoD, then they're not much more than an additional row of talents.

Basically it's "we put these new talents aside so we don't fuck up the current trees balance by adding more points".

[Kiivar86]

I do wonder why the Sunwell would be so important but I guess we'll find out. I mean I know what we went through with it in the past but the whole "plunge the world into shadow" thing with taking it out by the Void seems a bit much.

Definitely has me curious.

[Vakir]

Are we still talking about time travel?

There is no damn time travel.

People are proposing we should start with it as a means of dealing with 12.0 and 13.0 threats. Why, I do not know.

I do wonder why the Sunwell would be so important but I guess we'll find out. I mean I know what we went through with it in the past but the whole "plunge the world into shadow" thing with taking it out by the Void seems a bit much.

Definitely has me curious.

It was deemed of significant power as a source, enough to raise Kel'Thuzad back when he was an absolute chad and not a bland underling for Zovaal.

Maybe they're going back to that well (ha) story-wise.

[Nymrohd]

There is one form of time travel that does not cause any paradoxes. Jumping forward. I think the Arathi of Harrowdeep are exactly this, a group of Arathi tribesmen who were moved forward in time and space. Possibly by the Light to serve a specific purpose. I would not be surprised if they are led by Mereldar herself.

[Cheezits]

You know, I do feel kind of bad that this expansion doesn't even try to pretend to have a Horde-adjacent zone theme.

Closest thing is Forsaken/Nerubian scourge ties, I guess.

[Kiivar86]

It was deemed of significant power as a source, enough to raise Kel'Thuzad back when he was an absolute chad and not a bland underling for Zovaal.

Maybe they're going back to that well (ha) story-wise.

True and it was being used as a portal for Kil'jaeden way back when. Could be used as a portal for a void lord too, I suppose.

[Vakir]

There is one form of time travel that does not cause any paradoxes. Jumping forward. I think the Arathi of Harrowdeep are exactly this, a group of Arathi tribesmen who were moved forward in time and space. Possibly by the Light to serve a specific purpose. I would not be surprised if they are led by Mereldar herself.

The problem isn't just paradoxes, it's narrative cohesion and integrity.

If the Light can throw people forward for reasons, what stops them from throwing forward whatever they want? What stops us from learning how to use time travel to move people?

You know, I do feel kind of bad that this expansion doesn't even try to pretend to have a Horde-adjacent zone theme.

Yeah. Quel'Thalas is way, way more Horde than Alliance as an idea, now, though. The Void Elves/High Elves are a thing but barely able to be acknowledged in terms of numbers.

Not gonna pretend it's the same as 75% Dwarves and Humans, though.

[bruxx]

Ethereals >>>>> Naga

Naga would just be Dracthyr 2.0.

Rest assured that you will NEVER get transmog on Playable Naga.

As such, the logical choice is Playable Ethereal.

Blizzard can justify no transmog on whoever they please, rest assured that Dracthyr and Ethereal share the same humanoid shape, and they may make the artistic decision of showing little mog in order for you to see all of the hard work they put in their bandages, internal energies and w/e else.

[Nymrohd]

The problem isn't just paradoxes, it's narrative cohesion and integrity.

If the Light can throw people forward for reasons, what stops them from throwing forward whatever they want? What stops us from learning how to use time travel to move people?

Absolutely easy to explain. Tuure forced Dimensius back into the Void. Can they do it again? Nope cause they had to sacrifice themselves to achieve this. Sacrifice is a key theme for the Light. Perhaps one of the Naaru that guided Mereldar sacrificed itself to send these tribesmen to guard one of their own, perhaps even a Prime.

[vintage79]

tbh sunwell status is 'abit ' unclear
its either:

a) gets destroyed (W3 TFT)
b) gets destroyed after being destroyed /restored/
c) ending up corrupted
d) exploded after beeing corupted (Novel trio)

[Cheezits]

Yeah. Quel'Thalas is way, way more Horde than Alliance as an idea, now, though. The Void Elves/High Elves are a thing but barely able to be acknowledged in terms of numbers.

It may just be because it will be Quel'Thalas and the Amani forest as zones, yeah, but it's still rough to have single-faction expansions.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

a planet whispering to the main characters who are forming their own little coalition rather than tying in the actual sociopolitical mainstays of the larger world who by all accounts should be assisting...

This is not unique to FFXIV. Isaac Asimov, Terry Prachet, Stephen King, Malazan Book of the Fallen, the Space Trilogy by C.S. Lewis, Dr. Who, Elder Scrolls, etc have done the living world thing before. Babylon 5 and countless fantasy novels have done the "certain people are chosen ones who must unite to save the world" thing before.

Also, the Scions in FFXIV always fought with the Eorzean Alliance against the enemy superpower, Garlemald. Never once did they renounce the conflict and call out both sides including the Eorzean Alliance and leave to go fight with Garleans and save the world from the true threat like what happens in every WoW expansion since Wrath, which predates FF14.

[Vakir]

This is not unique to FFXIV. Isaac Asimov, Terry Prachet, Stephen King, Malazan Book of the Fallen, the Space Trilogy by C.S. Lewis, Dr. Who, Elder Scrolls, etc have done the living world thing before. Babylon 5 and countless fantasy novels have done the "certain people are chosen ones who must unite to save the world" thing before.

Wow, I never knew that! These are all completely foreign names to me and earth-shattering implications for the foundation on which my history of media consumption rests--

Dude, it's literally a whispering female voice hitting chosen champions when it was only previously hitting one dwarf who fused with the earth for years, with everyone acting like it is a new and mysterious concept and a mystery box as to the voice's identity and purpose as the catalyst for "the final chapter" of an arc that WoW has never coherently melded as a cohesive "saga" until now (except for that time Danuser said it was and everyone ignored it because it was a terrible conclusion).

Also, the Scions in FFXIV always fought with the Eorzean Alliance against the enemy superpower, Garlemald. Never once did they renounce the conflict and call out both sides including the Eorzean Alliance and leave to go fight with Garleans and save the world from the true threat like what happens in every WoW expansion since Wrath, which predates FF14.

Yes, but the reason we focus on the Scions is largely because 14's universe has a ton of non-combatant characters or normies. The Echo isn't this all-encompassing concept and they're the most elite of the elite even when they don't have it. Even when new characters enter the setting that are hyper-competent, they usually end up joining. There's a few notable exceptions, but not many.

But in WoW, almost every major character is a fucking superhero. There's no reason for, say, Jaina to be absent. An entire god damn army of Light Draenei from space. A new portal-led group of orcs from another timeline. The dragons now extra-indebted to us.

The absence of many is a hail-mary with no political reason now so we can have a ragtag group of audience surrogates. Which, again, is not a bad thing. But it is a growing familiarity with clear parallels.

[bruxx]

I do wonder why the Sunwell would be so important but I guess we'll find out. I mean I know what we went through with it in the past but the whole "plunge the world into shadow" thing with taking it out by the Void seems a bit much.

Definitely has me curious.

Summoning a void lord, if I had to take a wild guess.