The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Also re: Lightforged warlocks. The issue with them isn't about morality. It's that barring class skins which Blizzard won't do where the demons are purified/bound or what have you, they further water down the already shallow and meaningless process of being Light-infused, as not only does it not keep you from being a generic DK, but it also doesn't keeo you from using an ontologically different power.

This isn't a bad thing IMO as people generally didn't like either them or Void Elves for their restrictions among other things (weak lore/not Broken or Helf nonwithstanding). The "being infused with something to lock you into certain stuff" doesn't really have THAT much pull in the lore community besides pre-WOD Mag'har... for whatever reason why people like Extra Orcy Orcs.

[Kiivar86]

Also, re: Lightforged Warlocks, I do still have one idea as to how those could be made to work: they could be former researchers of some kind that captured and studied Demons for the war effort. After the Legion was defeated, they enslaved their former test subjects and started fielding them as weapons.

That's generally been my concept for them and regular draenei warlocks. Make them a bit zealous and cruel (exposure to demons and whatnot, I mean it happened to Sargeras after all). There you go.

[Nymrohd]

I think it's just an overdone course correction, partly because the last two expansions were criticized for being massively bleak, which they weren't, they just had subject matter that was so absurdly, comically dark when compared to the Saturday Morning Cartoon-style morals and conveyance of them. This plus Hearthstone being praised for how it handled Warcraft material, which has a much lighter tone had them import a bit of that into the game proper. It's generally fine in as much as the tone and the material match, one of the reasons Chromie is so terrible at it is because the subject matter, while not exactly grim, is more serious than most of DF while she's more obnoxiusly cute than even made for mascot characters like the niffen.

I feel the WoW version of HS style storylines simply lacks the joy. HS gets that because it gets solid cinematics that build on it. WoW keeps cinematics for the main story which is consistently saccharine, not campy and joyful.

[Cheezits]

That's generally been my concept for them and regular draenei warlocks. Make them a bit zealous and cruel (exposure to demons and whatnot, I mean it happened to Sargeras after all). There you go.

It's honestly a really cool concept to have them throw enslaved demons at other demons. Alternatively they could be combat mages who took the extra step and corrupted that magic on purpose to do more damage. But I like the slavemaster idea more.

[Super Dickmann]

This isn't a bad thing IMO as people generally didn't like either them or Void Elves for their restrictions among other things (weak lore/not Broken or Helf nonwithstanding). The "being infused with something to lock you into certain stuff" doesn't really have THAT much pull in the lore community besides pre-WOD Mag'har... for whatever reason why people like Extra Orcy Orcs.

Both they and Void Elves should never have been playable, but to be playable and then to systematically water down the only relevant aspects of the races is even worse than not putting them in. Everyone knows that Broken and High Elves should've been the allied races while Lightforged should've been NPCs and Void Elves should be a 404 page, but if they're there, the least that can be done with them is to play them to the hilt. Instead every development without fail has been about making both them and by extension their associated cosmic power limp and unimpressive.

Re: Mag'har, as a fan of them personally, the reason they check out is because they import all the WoD orc lore and assets and maintain the Iron Horde mentality. With the reggo orcs being ground down for as long as they were and being far apart from this anyway ever since the end of Mists, the Mag'har offer a lot of opportunities on top of just being stylish.

[Cheezits]

Well the concept that was floating here (Teriz had a concept, I think I had another as well) was Drake with a Visage form and possibly a Hybrid form inspired by Wrathions' HS Mercenaries art. And it would be a Tank/Ranged/Healer or possibly a 4 spec class like Druid that can do every role.

The flights could definitely be their own specs but honestly? Considering one of them is already an entire class (Druid) and tentatively most of another (Shaman) I like what they did with the "two flights crossed per spec" thing with Evokers. It's pretty fun.

Except Disintegrate, I hate that.

[Super Dickmann]

I feel the WoW version of HS style storylines simply lacks the joy. HS gets that because it gets solid cinematics that build on it. WoW keeps cinematics for the main story which is consistently saccharine, not campy and joyful.

Incidentally why the Incarnate cinematics have consistently been the best. Because they're not saccharine and don't feel the need to cram some message in, they can instead fill their space by being incredibly camp.

[Cheezits]

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Re: Mag'har, as a fan of them personally, the reason they check out is because they import all the WoD orc lore and assets and maintain the Iron Horde mentality. With the reggo orcs being ground down for as long as they were and being far apart from this anyway ever since the end of Mists, the Mag'har offer a lot of opportunities on top of just being stylish.

Oh I think AU Mag'har are fantastic, and have some really good potential with their technology and WoD clan/Iron Horde lore. It's no mistake that they shuffled some clans out for the MU so that the AU can have that focus (Shadowmoon, Laughing Skull and Thunderlord for example). I meant primarily the TBC Mag'har people used to drool over.

Both they and Void Elves should never have been playable, but to be playable and then to systematically water down the only relevant aspects of the races is even worse than not putting them in. Everyone knows that Broken and High Elves should've been the allied races while Lightforged should've been NPCs and Void Elves should be a 404 page, but if they're there, the least that can be done with them is to play them to the hilt. Instead every development without fail has been about making both them and by extension their associated cosmic power limp and unimpressive.

Fair point, and it's completely taxed resource based that them and Velves were put in. As well as the sorry state of launch Nightborne. Shame they didn't do more with them the past 6 years but hopefully a revamp or the inevitable Light/Void expac carves out their niches.

[Nymrohd]

It's honestly a really cool concept to have them throw enslaved demons at other demons.

D&D added such an archetype with the Malconvoker in 3.5 (it also really tied well with Planescape lore about certain Celestials trying to keep the Blood War inflamed so that demons and devils could stay busy killing each other). But that archetype worked well because the Malconvoker had a rogueish style; he bluffed demons into working for him.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh Ysera's big, hence why we're getting a POTENTIALLY new Argus-sized Lifelands/Dream patch where she and Tyrande can kiss Elune's feet (who I would bet money on physically appearing in the patch). But after that? I doubt she's going to Tel'abim or Stormwind or wherever.

Wrathion will be he's the fanbase's precious woobie and this expansion is about him being set free of the responsibilities of Aspect so he can marry Anduin. Chromie will because Chromie.

Shut it. Shut it. Shut it.



I.E. Don't give them ideas I hate that idea. STOP IT


Second Edit: Too much camp is freaking dumb. See Thor Love and Thunder.

[Nymrohd]

Incidentally why the Incarnate cinematics have consistently been the best. Because they're not saccharine and don't feel the need to cram some message in, they can instead fill their space by being incredibly camp.

I keep saying this, WoW is at its best when it embraces the camp style. When your plots are so overwrought, you need people to chew the scenery. Who do we fondly remember from the dumpsterfires of BfA and SL? Azshara and Denathrius, Queen and King of camp.

[Cheezits]

I.E. Don't give them ideas I hate that idea. STOP IT

The Black dragons will either have no aspect, a council, or Adamanthia (now VERY VERY LIKELY) as their aspect. There is no chance in hell its Wrathion as he A) already has a family (Talons) and B) is blindly going through the motions of wanting Aspect when everything points to him having better stuff to do.

Also if it's Adamanthia you better fucking hope Kalec doesn't die so we can have a token man on the Aspect team.

[Super Dickmann]

Oh I think AU Mag'har are fantastic, and have some really good potential with their technology and WoD clan/Iron Horde lore. It's no mistake that they shuffled some clans out for the MU so that the AU can have that focus (Shadowmoon, Laughing Skull and Thunderlord for example). I meant primarily the TBC Mag'har people used to drool over.

The TBC Mag'har were originally dull as dishwater and basically just regular Thrall orcs, but brown. That said, what Wrath on did with them was inspired and interesting and almost all of it was environmental storytelling and just extrapolation of their mindset. You have people who never experienced either of the other wars and who didn't participate in the First one not out of morals, but inability and disliked fel not out of moral compunctions per se but because of what it did to them and the land. They had no in-built bond with any of the established orcish allied races. They were though, Garrosh's clan, so you kept seeing them working as his up close executors, even down to being the guys who got to volunteer to use Y'shaarj's power and were at his throne room. The contrast between Cromush and Drek'thar's views on the Forsaken was another well done bit for this same reason. Incidentally, they should've had the balls to kill MU Drek'thar off, either in the heritage questline or better in BFA.

[Cheezits]

Incidentally, they should've had the balls to kill MU Drek'thar off, either in the heritage questline or better in BFA.

Honestly, a point towards a revamp of some kind as they even set it up in the heritage. When the hell else is he going to die? DF is a remote possibility to spirit bomb Iridikron but yeah.

Unless it's a short story.

[ChairmanKaga]

So does the Time Wimey 10.1.5 increase the chances of that Wowhead theory about time things bleeding over into Wrath Classic?

[Marlamin]

So does the Time Wimey 10.1.5 increase the chances of that Wowhead theory about time things bleeding over into Wrath Classic?

I secretly hope so.

[Cheezits]

So does the Time Wimey 10.1.5 increase the chances of that Wowhead theory about time things bleeding over into Wrath Classic?

You mean Classic+? I seriously hope not because I just know that would fuck over retail development somehow.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I think it's just an overdone course correction, partly because the last two expansions were criticized for being massively bleak, which they weren't, they just had subject matter that was so absurdly, comically dark when compared to the Saturday Morning Cartoon-style morals and conveyance of them. This plus Hearthstone being praised for how it handled Warcraft material, which has a much lighter tone had them import a bit of that into the game proper. It's generally fine in as much as the tone and the material match, one of the reasons Chromie is so terrible at it is because the subject matter, while not exactly grim, is more serious than most of DF while she's more obnoxiusly cute than even made for mascot characters like the niffen.

Fair analysis. I'd hardly put it beyond Blizzard to completely misread their errors in retrospect and overcompensate in response.

As for Chrome constituting a severe incongruity, that much is what makes her rather insufferable to work around. She's a character that inherently exists to provide comic relief, and it's difficult to attach any further depth to her. It would be plenty entertaining if evil Chromie were employed as, say, a deliberate invocation of a Saturday morning cartoon villain; a villain played entirely for comedy would be nice to see pop up now and again, and it would be a nice way to keep her in-character while still indulging in the typical tendencies of the Infinite Dragonflight.

[ChairmanKaga]

You mean Classic+? I seriously hope not because I just know that would fuck over retail development somehow.

No it was for the moment minor stuff. The idea of a limited event effecting Classic and Retail due to time travel seems fun. I wouldn't expect that spin into Classic +. I'm not even sure Classic will go into Cataclysm.

[Nymrohd]

You mean Classic+? I seriously hope not because I just know that would fuck over retail development somehow.

You know I absolutely get people who want classic gameplay and would like more of it but for the love of the Light I cannot figure how they are ok with the graphics. And yes I get they are grittier (or rather, they are less detailed and the mind creates the illusion of grit)