The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

It really shouldn't be planned. Transmog restrictions keep the world from looking completely insane and ridiculous. Occasional acceptions to the restrictions are fine.

Imagine a warrior tanking with a wand and a book, while wearing a pointy hat and Kirin Tor robes. Imagine getting ganked by a Horde rogue that's wearing the full plate, sword, and shield of a Stormwind Guard.

It's just crazy looking nonsense to outside observers, and the game always needs new players.

I am honestly not even sure this is serious or not, given Kirin Tor robes and a pointy hat is already cosmetic gear available to everyone.

Weapon restrictions make somewhat more sense, but even they have been loosened considerably since it's inception, and could honestly easily be loosened further.

[Paula Deen]

I'm not making a final determination at this point (waiting for the afternoon Deep Dive, at least), but three things are looking like I won't be coming back.

First, they apparently aren't getting rid of button bloat. If anything, they're layering more on top.

Second, the focus on M+, which I despise, is still there.

And third, I don't see a change from a game that revolves around the top slice of players. Even if there is consolation content for lesser players, the focus on those top players renders it unappetizing. It's content that says "congratulations, but remember you still suck".

There doesn't appear to have been any change in design philosophy, at least one they're willing to publicly commit to. Absent that commitment, there's no reason to think they won't walk things back that they were forced into. This is not a design team that's willing to put aside their own egos.

I haven't stepped foot in a mythic raid since SoO. I have never done anything higher than an 18 key. I have had aotc all of DF. I have had 2500 IO every Season in, DF. I even had 1800 first pvp season. I play on average an hour a day with 3 hours of raid a week. I am ilvl 444 currently.

Consolidation is not handing you gear. The game is casual enough.

[Well Done Steak]

It really shouldn't be planned. Transmog restrictions keep the world from looking completely insane and ridiculous. Occasional acceptions to the restrictions are fine.

Imagine a warrior tanking with a wand and a book, while wearing a pointy hat and Kirin Tor robes. Imagine getting ganked by a Horde rogue that's wearing the full plate, sword, and shield of a Stormwind Guard.

It's just crazy looking nonsense to outside observers, and the game always needs new players.

Weapon restrictions are fine, armor need to go. Look at anduin and thrall, both guys in plate. Not to mentioned the vast amounts of cosmetic armor that already exists.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

These 3 "mini-expansions" look like a speedrun of current story that was made without Chris Metzen, because they want to finish all this cosmic stuff about light/void/titans as fast as possible. And after that there will be some kind of reboot of WoW under Chris Metzen vision. Maybe even a WoW2 in some form.

Do we have any real indication that these are "mini-expansions" and not just expansions grouped together? Plus, this actually all seems to be Metzen-era lore: world-souls were even seemingly planned well ahead of Chronicles if we take the "Final Titan" and "miserable little seedling" bits at face value. There doesn't seem to be any, say, First One lore here, either. This all looks like Metzen-era lore coming back, not an effort to bury non-Metzen lore.

[Stonecloak]

back to this thread after a bit, what do you guys think? im personally pumped for the new way of storytelling, provided they do a good job of course. I think the systems for TWW look amazing also

I'm still in awe we just got 3 expansion reveals. I've never seen anything like that in the videogame industry. Everything looks great to me so long as they execute well as you mention. TWW looks cool. I like the zones, the theme. Seems like its going to be a good foyer into this saga.

[Well Done Steak]

I am honestly not even sure this is serious or not, given Kirin Tor robes and a pointy hat is already cosmetic gear available to everyone.

Weapon restrictions make somewhat more sense, but even they have been loosened considerably since it's inception, and could honestly easily be loosened further.

The only thing I agree with is allowing some weapon types for classes that don't have them.

Like 1h maces for mages, staffs got paladins, swords for shaman, etc.

[Wangming]

Do we have any real indication that these are "mini-expansions" and not just expansions grouped together?

No, they don't. Of course. I mean Metzen did say the story will be delivered more quickly, but there is a spectrum between 10 month wait and mini expansions.

[micwini]

These 3 "mini-expansions" look like a speedrun of current story that was made without Chris Metzen, because they want to finish all this cosmic stuff about light/void/titans as fast as possible. And after that there will be some kind of reboot of WoW under Chris Metzen vision. Maybe even a WoW2 in some form.

I don't think they're going to be 'mini expansions'. I expect them to each have 2 major patches, hopefully with either a faster cadence than DF or with more content per patch.

For a 'speedrun of current story that was made without Chris Metzen', you need to look no further than BFA. 3 expansions worth of story crammed into one.

[Europah]

I'm not making a final determination at this point (waiting for the afternoon Deep Dive, at least), but three things are looking like I won't be coming back.

First, they apparently aren't getting rid of button bloat. If anything, they're layering more on top.

Second, the focus on M+, which I despise, is still there.

And third, I don't see a change from a game that revolves around the top slice of players. Even if there is consolation content for lesser players, the focus on those top players renders it unappetizing. It's content that says "congratulations, but remember you still suck".

There doesn't appear to have been any change in design philosophy, at least one they're willing to publicly commit to. Absent that commitment, there's no reason to think they won't walk things back that they were forced into. This is not a design team that's willing to put aside their own egos.

1. Most of the specs only use up to 10 buttons in most scenarios
2. not everyone wants to raid and commit hours and hours of time. M+ is perfect for those who want small group content with high gear rewards. Just because some people dislike it doesnt mean they shouldnt focus on it.
3. You cannot talk about top slice of players when dragonflight is super casual-friendly in almost Every aspect. even just open world casual players can get up to Heroic level ilvl these days.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Although I always expected most of these things to never come to fruition, this is probably the first time I've felt that WoW may genuinely not last long enough for them to get around to it

It is a shame, though I also think there is a bittersweet quality about it. There's a real sense of finality here if The Last Titan really is the final expansion, and it honestly does feel kind of like the right way to end it. We go to Quel'Thalas, then to Northrend, two iconic locations in the "old world" to first put to rest the newer final villains, and then to close off the old lore. It's better than a big anime fight with all the First Ones, at least. I'd definitely much rather see it end this way.

- - - Updated - - -

No, they don't. Of course. I mean Metzen did say the story will be delivered more quickly, but there is a spectrum between 10 month wait and mini expansions.

If they've actually got the pacing down, I wouldn't be totally opposed to shorter expansions. Whatever closes the wait gaps.

[ercarp]

back to this thread after a bit, what do you guys think? im personally pumped for the new way of storytelling, provided they do a good job of course. I think the systems for TWW look amazing also

This new method of storytelling is perhaps what I'm most excited for when it comes to 11.x and beyond. It's the one aspect of Warcraft that has been steadily going downhill since Legion, not to mention the damage done by Shadowlands. If they can undo that damage and get the story back on track, that means everything to me. Because the one thing that always kept me coming back to WoW was the story. Sure, it's not the most high-brow stuff ever written, but it at least felt like the writers respected the lore and took it seriously. Somewhere along the way, they lost that. Here's hoping Metzen is able to bring it back.

[Sondrelk]

Do we have any real indication that these are "mini-expansions" and not just expansions grouped together? Plus, this actually all seems to be Metzen-era lore: world-souls were even seemingly planned well ahead of Chronicles if we take the "Final Titan" and "miserable little seedling" bits at face value. There doesn't seem to be any, say, First One lore here, either. This all looks like Metzen-era lore coming back, not an effort to bury non-Metzen lore.

Not really. Just gut feeling that they are designing this like a big expansion, rather than three individual ones. Which in turn means the expansions are likely made with a scope more like a big patch, which in turn might make them unsuitable for a full two years of expansion.

TWW could probably be widened in scope to be a full expansion, and TLT the same given its a revamped Northrend. But Midnight especially sounds like it's very laser focused on Quel'thalas specifically.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

This new method of storytelling is perhaps what I'm most excited for when it comes to 11.x and beyond. It's the one aspect of Warcraft that has been steadily going downhill since Legion, not to mention the damage done by Shadowlands. If they can undo that damage and get the story back on track, that means everything to me. Because the one thing that always kept me coming back to WoW was the story. Sure, it's not the most high-brow stuff ever written, but it at least felt like the writers respected the lore and took it seriously. Somewhere along the way, they lost that. Here's hoping Metzen is able to bring it back.

This is one of the few places I can say I'm pretty solidly optimistic. This does feel—more or less—like Warcraft after Shadowlands and Dragonflight really didn't have the soul of the franchise. I don't think they'll be able to undo the damage of BfA and Shadowlands altogether, but they may at least be able to salvage what they have and give us something satisfying. I'm honestly kind of hoping this is the end; I'd rather WoW die with some dignity than be stretched out ad infinitum until it dies with a whimper. I especially like the idea of ending on some of the best lore we ever got with Ulduar.

[micwini]

I don't think they're going to be 'mini expansions'. I expect them to each have 2 major patches, hopefully with either a faster cadence than DF or with more content per patch.

For a 'speedrun of current story that was made without Chris Metzen', you need to look no further than BFA. 3 expansions worth of story crammed into one.

- Faction war expansion with Kul Tiras and Zandalar. Patch content could have been other South Sea islands like Plunder isle and Crestfall. Instead of mechagon and Nazjatar. Remove Shrine of the Storm area from Kultiras and replace with something else (see later). Last patch could be shadowlands with Mueh'zala as the final boss. Sylvanas defeated too (no double soul shit). Basically SL is the last patch of BFA.

- Nazjatar expansion. Plenty of creativity possible here and could have given room for one actual zone that is fully underwater. Could have been the 'pilot' for dragonriding with a new form of swimming mount. Like Visions were to Torghast. Could have some more South Sea islands as patch content (Tel'abim, Hiji).
Aszhara final boss. Ending happens as it went in 8.2

- Old god expansion. Dragon Isles continent. Shrine of the Storm is actually on the dragon isles like the age old concept art. Emerald Dream as zone for patch 1 and Ny'alotha zone for patch 2. Imagine a Nyalotha zone with dragonriding and tons of verticality, holy fucking shit. N'zoth final boss.

And THEN you get TWW.

[Doffer]

First thing I thought about when they announced Delves is how close it is to a similar concept I posted on reddit about a year ago https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...venture_tombs/

The post received no traction though, but considering how much I've been waiting for a feature like this im just super excited to see how Delves will play out!
I hope there will be some player choice in the paths you take in Delves

[Sondrelk]

I don't think they're going to be 'mini expansions'. I expect them to each have 2 major patches, hopefully with either a faster cadence than DF or with more content per patch.

For a 'speedrun of current story that was made without Chris Metzen', you need to look no further than BFA. 3 expansions worth of story crammed into one.

I am going to go even less. I will say one major content patch, but with meatier minor patches.
The megadungeon might be treated as the expansions third raid narratively.

[pacotaco]

He does then immediately go on to say...

"Of course, blizzcon, it is Azeroth. Things may not go to plan, things may just spiral wildly out of control, leading us to.. The third part of the World Soul Saga, WoW The Last Titan."

Sounds pretty clearly, we may loose in some sense, leading us to Ulduar to call the titans back.

My guess is that Xal uses the Light crystal to turn it to Void and use it as portal to bring Dimensius at the end of TWW, and him going straight to devour the biggest source of Light magic in Azeroth (the Sunwell)

[Nymrohd]

Not really. Just gut feeling that they are designing this like a big expansion, rather than three individual ones. Which in turn means the expansions are likely made with a scope more like a big patch, which in turn might make them unsuitable for a full two years of expansion.

TWW could probably be widened in scope to be a full expansion, and TLT the same given its a revamped Northrend. But Midnight especially sounds like it's very laser focused on Quel'thalas specifically.

I think they main thing is, the features they are adding are meant to last for at least the full cycle, with obvious iterations, and then they will rethink and retool them as needed AFTER the saga. So the Talent system, dynamic flight, Delves, Hero Talents will stay at least until the Last Titan.

- - - Updated - - -

My guess is that Xal uses the Light crystal to turn it to Void and use it as portal to bring Dimensius at the end of TWW, and him going straight to devour the biggest source of Light magic in Azeroth (the Sunwell)

I think Xal is after the Coreway and getting to the World Soul, not after a Light Crystal.

[Nhiosis]

Apologies if it's been answered, but with the 3 expansion reveal, are we looking at the next 6 years of wow? Or is the timeline going to be compressed and shorter?

I honestly don't know how I feel about seeing so far into the future. On one hand it's cool to see what they have planned, but it also kills some of that unknown hype that I get halfway into an expansion.

[Nymrohd]

Apologies if it's been answered, but with the 3 expansion reveal, are we looking at the next 6 years of wow? Or is the timeline going to be compressed and shorter?

I honestly don't know how I feel about seeing so far into the future. On one hand it's cool to see what they have planned, but it also kills some of that unknown hype that I get halfway into an expansion.

No one knows. MY guess is we are looking at about 5 years at most.