The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

I thought that was current Iridikron, given he is already empowered by Earth. Might be wrong though.
I do also think that this means we won't fight him again this xpac.

Never done a mega-dungeon before, hopefully my casual ass can get into one as this one looks interesting.

The hardest part of Megadungeons is always to find a group that wants to do it, without it just being a pug that gets annoyed if you don't know every strat immediately.

[Super Dickmann]

I just want Odyn to meet Tyr simply so grandpa firebeard can go "I told you so"

With every step and every attempt to slander him, Odyn becomes more and more correct. The Dragons he refused to empower almost destroyed the world multiple times while failing to prevent a single threat not caused by other dragons. He chained Helya sure, but she literally signed on to work for the Turbo-Devil.

[Sondrelk]

The main issue is that their entitlement and immaturity, although present, was exaggerated to a remarkably intense degree through most of Dragonflight and especially throughout 10.1. Ebyssian has done nothing to really earn the position other than be portrayed normally among two others whose flaws were exaggerated beyond the threshold of what is reasonable.

Ebyssian has done nothing to really be a leader for the black dragons except not being Sabellian or Wrathion. Emberthal is by far the better choice. It would work narratively, it would tie the Dracthyr to the Black Dragons, and it would show that we have actually had some forward momentum with the whole casually racist dragons angle we saw in Valdrakken.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

With every step and every attempt to slander him, Odyn becomes more and more correct. The Dragons he refused to empower almost destroyed the world multiple times while failing to prevent a single threat not caused by other dragons. He chained Helya sure, but she literally signed on to work for the Turbo-Devil.

Eh, I'd say Helya was a bit of an overreach, provided that she only ended up in Turbo-Devil territory precisely because of her condition. Certainly still her bad decision,—one for which she is culpable,—but one that obviously has roots in Odyn's mistreatment of her. Conversely, it is noteworthy how fucking incompetent Tyr's Dragonflights turned out and how effective just letting Azeroth semi-autonomously expunge threats has been.

[Sondrelk]

On to something different for a change though? What are peoples opinion on the whole Vortex Pinnacle redesign? It definitely suffers a bad case of overthinking mechanics, but as an experiment in remaking old dungeons I think it's quite interesting. It's not as great as remaking a dungeon completely like what we had in MoP and what not, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Ebyssian has done nothing to really be a leader for the black dragons except not being Sabellian or Wrathion. Emberthal is by far the better choice. It would work narratively, it would tie the Dracthyr to the Black Dragons, and it would show that we have actually had some forward momentum with the whole casually racist dragons angle we saw in Valdrakken.

I still find Emberthal to be the worst possible choice on effectively every other level than tying in a race that nobody really wanted into the lore. I think that she simply lacks much gravitas as a Dragon Aspect, too, provided that her whole shtick is more as a soldier and leader than a guardian of some kind of lofty concept and the world as a whole. I figure Wrathion has made himself out to be the better guardian of Azeroth, whereas Sabellian has historically seemed the more responsible and sensible, as well as being a leader specifically among Dragons. That, and it would really just be insufferable to have to be exposed to the writers' newest Mary Sue they introduced out of nowhere and have her swoop in just to snatch such a relevant position from under the noses of better characters.

[Sondrelk]

I still find Emberthal to be the worst possible choice on effectively every other level than tying in a race that nobody really wanted into the lore. I think that she simply lacks much gravitas as a Dragon Aspect, too, provided that her whole shtick is more as a soldier and leader than a guardian of some kind of lofty concept and the world as a whole. I figure Wrathion has made himself out to be the better guardian of Azeroth, whereas Sabellian has historically seemed the more responsible and sensible, as well as being a leader specifically among Dragons. That, and it would really just be insufferable to have to be exposed to the writers' newest Mary Sue they introduced out of nowhere and have her swoop in just to snatch such a relevant position from under the noses of better characters.

Regardless I would say Emberthal is a better choice than Ebyssian. At least she actually has a reluctant leader plotline going.
Maybe Adamanthia can be the new aspect. Just cut the knot on the whole issue altogether.

On a sidenote. Please don't refer to Emberthal as a Mary Sue. That massively cheapens the term. She is a a character with little depth, not a character with no flaws. There is a difference.

[Super Dickmann]

Ebyssian has done nothing to really be a leader for the black dragons except not being Sabellian or Wrathion. Emberthal is by far the better choice. It would work narratively, it would tie the Dracthyr to the Black Dragons, and it would show that we have actually had some forward momentum with the whole casually racist dragons angle we saw in Valdrakken.

If anything, Emberthal should sign up with Ebyssian long-term, akin to the original dracthyr and Neltharion, with the caveat that it's a more productive relationship rather than a master-slave one. Ebyssian's biggest problem is that he's just kind of a nice dude, which isn't very interesting. Black Dragons need an edge. Sabellian and Wrathion have it, Ebyssian doesn't.

[Nymrohd]

I still find Emberthal to be the worst possible choice on effectively every other level than tying in a race that nobody really wanted into the lore

I get that but we got it anyway. So it should stay relevant (it's not true for so many other races but just cause they fuck up with others doesn't mean they should keep at it). Dracthyr won't be afforded multiple important NPCs, they pretty much will get Emberthal and that's it. So they need to give her an important role in the story. The Dracthyr don't really control any important lands like other racial leaders so she needs some buy in for the rest of the story of Warcraft. Making her Aspect keeps her relevant for a long time and with her, the Dracthyr.

[Super Dickmann]

Eh, I'd say Helya was a bit of an overreach, provided that she only ended up in Turbo-Devil territory precisely because of her condition. Certainly still her bad decision,—one for which she is culpable,—but one that obviously has roots in Odyn's mistreatment of her. Conversely, it is noteworthy how fucking incompetent Tyr's Dragonflights turned out and how effective just letting Azeroth semi-autonomously expunge threats has been.

I'm being partly facetious re: Helya. I'm not being facetious at all re: the dragons though.

[Nymrohd]

On to something different for a change though? What are peoples opinion on the whole Vortex Pinnacle redesign? It definitely suffers a bad case of overthinking mechanics, but as an experiment in remaking old dungeons I think it's quite interesting. It's not as great as remaking a dungeon completely like what we had in MoP and what not, but it's interesting nonetheless.

I'm just glad that one of the most stunning environments in WoW got another chance to be seen by more players. Such a shame that we didn't get much chance to explore Skywall or the Abyssal Maw as zones.

[micwini]

The main issue is that their entitlement and immaturity, although present, was exaggerated to a remarkably intense degree through most of Dragonflight and especially throughout 10.1. Ebyssian has done nothing to really earn the position other than be portrayed normally among two others whose flaws were exaggerated beyond the threshold of what is reasonable.

This is normally how they develop characters tho. Like, for example, Varian telling a 10k yr old night elf how to do warfare.
Sabellian is still the best choice for aspect if they want a character with some flaws and depth. Emberthal makes 0 sense. Ebyssian is boring. Wrathion is just an annoying immature little B.

[Pyrophax]

Regardless I would say Emberthal is a better choice than Ebyssian. At least she actually has a reluctant leader plotline going.
Maybe Adamanthia can be the new aspect. Just cut the knot on the whole issue altogether.

On a sidenote. Please don't refer to Emberthal as a Mary Sue. That massively cheapens the term. She is a a character with little depth, not a character with no flaws. There is a difference.

Yea, lets put some batshit crazy dragon in Aspect seat. Sure, why not. Or some other race, but not dragon. Why not put Thrall in that place? He was alike earthwarder once.
Sabellian was good choice, but they decide to put him to some "general" vibe to me.
While that "character" Wrathion comes to some Black-dragon title character and akin spy-master of Black Dragonflight. And that great. He can be present in new stories.
Same with Sabellian - he could be present in stories with leading military of Black Dragonflight.
And Ebonhorn would be AFKing in Seat of Aspects with other Aspects.



And with that - we have like 2(3) major characters in Black Dragonflight. Common Wrathion as title character, less common Sabellian to heavy artilery and AFK Ebonhorn.
Wish there would be to other dragonflights.
Green have dead Ysera and Merithra to AFK. And no other major dragon at all. Maybe her children will be in new 10.2?
Bronze - we have Nozdormu to AFK and Chromie to title character. Other then them? Nope, maybe some Infinite join them to make more.
Red - we have our queen to AFK and thats all. Majordorm is minor, mind you.
Blue - we have AFK Kalec, AFK Senegos and ghost Singragosa. With their story will continue.

[Nymrohd]

Btw I'll say this. Wrathion's biggest reason to become Aspect is that he has shown by far the greatest resistance to corruption. Ebyssian has been hiding since forever and he already almost fell to corruption TWICE. Wrathion keeps resisting the Void better than anyone other than the player.

[Pyrophax]

I get that but we got it anyway. So it should stay relevant (it's not true for so many other races but just cause they fuck up with others doesn't mean they should keep at it). Dracthyr won't be afforded multiple important NPCs, they pretty much will get Emberthal and that's it. So they need to give her an important role in the story. The Dracthyr don't really control any important lands like other racial leaders so she needs some buy in for the rest of the story of Warcraft. Making her Aspect keeps her relevant for a long time and with her, the Dracthyr.

They have azure boi and Sinder gal too, you know. Aside that green chick from FR. Its more than half of Horde race have acting characters at all!

[Nymrohd]

They have azure boi and Sinder gal too, you know. Aside that green chick from FR. Its more than half of Horde race have acting characters at all!

You don't even know their names So no, they don't have them any more than I can count. Azurathel and Cinderthress probably will get less screentime than Aysa. . .

But sure, they ARE better off than the Darkspear

[AOL Instant Messenger]

On a sidenote. Please don't refer to Emberthal as a Mary Sue. That massively cheapens the term. She is a a character with little depth, not a character with no flaws. There is a difference.

I would contest your claim that I am mischaracterizing her entirely in calling her that. It is true that she is flawed, though the has are woefully generic and do little to reflect poorly on her from a Watsonian perspective, being effectively limited to "uncertain" and "sometimes dejected". However, she also gains a number of points on account of the sheer degree of spehsulness that permeates her from being a Dracthyr alone; in setting of comically-overpowered megaraces, the Dracthyr are uniquely endowed with the wholly-unique trait of being magical super-soldiers designed by Deathwing himself to be able to use all teh powahs of all teh Aspects. Although I was exaggerating when I called her a Mary Sue, it's certainly not a wholly-inaccurate assessment, even if its more on account of what she is in than the character in herself.

As for the reluctant leader thing, we've had that plenty already with Anduin. All the "reluctant leader" plotline would do by this point is add in another sadsack who can make sad eyes at the camera in cinematics and further permeate the population of major characters with Anduin and Baine clones. Even then, the whole trope's really just a way to indulge the misguided assumption that the best leaders are those who don't want the position,—which has historically been true roughly once and then never again throughout the entirety of history,—as though they wouldn't just be put in a position of total disillusionment and unmanageable stress that would render them unable to effectively make decisions on account of being perpetually internally preoccupied with wanting to be anywhere but where they are.

[Pyrophax]

You don't even know their names So no, they don't have them any more than I can count. Azurathel and Cinderthress probably will get less screentime than Aysa. . .

Yea, my bad. They are afking and do nothing, so I just dont remember them good.

But sure, they ARE better off than the Darkspear

And Mag'Hars, that have 1 named character at all.
And Highmountain that have Lasan and Bains girl Maya.
Or even goblins that have leader from other Cartel.

Alliance have that too, mind you, I am not some Hard Horde fan anymore.
Pandarens aside, blue team have mechagnomes with AFK Erazmin, Void Elves with some dude somewhere in space aside Alleria, Lightforged with leader human Turalion and T'paaros as meme. WoW definitely lack minor characters and race-driven stories. Even heritage chains, that idealy should represent more characters, fails to deliver. We meet same old characters, same stories (Aside Orcs, that chain was great in many ways)

[Ragnarohk]

Btw I'll say this. Wrathion's biggest reason to become Aspect is that he has shown by far the greatest resistance to corruption. Ebyssian has been hiding since forever and he already almost fell to corruption TWICE. Wrathion keeps resisting the Void better than anyone other than the player.

So I have 7 lvl 70s but haven't really done much end-game content.

Don't we chose at some point to side with Sabelian or Wrathion?

I doubt Blizz would give the aspect to one side or the other, leaving half of the players with disappointment. So it's probably Ebyssion

[Nymrohd]

So I have 7 lvl 70s but haven't really done much end-game content.

Don't we chose at some point to side with Sabelian or Wrathion?

I doubt Blizz would give the aspect to one side or the other, leaving half of the players with disappointment. So it's probably Ebyssion

Nah you don't really choose. You can side with both. And with the lunatics who believe that Deathwing will come. And with some local Blacksmiths.