The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

I know that and honestly I am ready for the dissappointment. Just with many things in wow.

When announcing differnt archtypes and hyping it up, its just weird that the only thing you will get is 10 points and aa few visuals( they didnt say anything about visuals, I know). it clearly should offer players more that.. links to that archtype and offer other cosmetic options to actually feel like that archtype or add other glyphs.

I know what they pressented and I still think its very bareboned. Its just 10 extra talents in the end.

Sorry, but being disappointed that a feature they added isn't something that they never implied it was, and just something you want, when they've stated multiple times that it is just more talents, then that's not Blizzards fault but yours.

Yeah, it's just 10 extra talents. No one has ever said it's more than that.

[Alanar]

Sorry, but being disappointed that a feature they added isn't something that they never implied it was, and just something you want, when they've stated multiple times that it is just more talents, then that's not Blizzards fault but yours.

Yeah, it's just 10 extra talents. No one has ever said it's more than that.

I know what they said..but, I am interested how it will eventually play out in game. I forsee other options added to this system as well in the future after all the feedback they will get.

Giving players 10 talent pointa and lets you call yourself a dark ranger or a rider of the apocalyps, just simply itsnt cutting it. This is btw the overral opinion on this feauture from multiple fan sites. You see the same reaponse everywhere. Basically: is this it?
So far its not looking like a deep or interesting system.

Ofc I will wait my final judment, when its available in game.

[Sondrelk]

Sure, but Pokemon Remakes don't come out instead of mainline games.

Calling WoD Draenor a "HD Update" is hilarious as well when the only zone that is even remotely similar to TBC Outlands is Nagrand.

Unless there is a big, big, big natural disaster in Northrend having to do with the Titans coming back, it's incredibly lazy. Especially because last we heard of Northrend, all we had was Scourge running around.

It's Outland though in that you primarily fight enemies similar to those you fought in TBC, and in locations iconic to that expansion.

Loads of areas look different and all, but many of the broad strokes are still similar enough that you can argue that it's an HD revamp. You see Shattrath, Karabor, Hellfire Citadel, Auchindoun. You fight Arrakoa, Orcs, Ogres, and Demons.

[Nymrohd]

It's Outland though in that you primarily fight enemies similar to those you fought in TBC, and in locations iconic to that expansion.

Loads of areas look different and all, but many of the broad strokes are still similar enough that you can argue that it's an HD revamp. You see Shattrath, Karabor, Hellfire Citadel, Auchindoun. You fight Arrakoa, Orcs, Ogres, and Demons.

Those are really broad strokes. The only area that looks somewhat similar is Nagrand.

And for all we know, Northrend will also look radically different.

[huth]

Tbf, it's possible they are working on a glyph revamp for Midnight (or even one of TWW patches) which would be based upon the hero specs to give us more customization. That would be another evergreen system that can easily stand on it's own even if they decide to remove the hero talents later on.

Sure, but it would also be a seperate system, even if the flavour is based on the hero talents.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you missed my entire post. Atleast looking at what part you quoted me on. There are more questions, then awnsers. It might as well contain exactly what I said.

This whole feauture right now is just another talent tree that enhances excisting talents.

Which is all it was advertised as and all we have reason to believe it is. It's an expansion of talents designed to avoid the issues they had in BC-Cata. It has nothing at all to do with class skins nor is it meant to.

That you didn't pay attention doesn't mean we don't know what they are. The open questions are largely in regards to the details of what each tree gives to the specs, not in what their general design purpose is. That part they were pretty clear on and your argument is mostly just wishy-washy "but they could do more", when there's no reason to believe they will.

- - - Updated - - -

Ofc I will wait my final judment, when its available in game.

You will be disappointed because you're expecting something we already know it isn't.

[Alanar]

Sure, but it would also be a seperate system, even if the flavour is based on the hero talents.

- - - Updated - - -



Which is all it was advertised as and all we have reason to believe it is. It's an expansion of talents designed to avoid the issues they had in BC-Cata. It has nothing at all to do with class skins nor is it meant to.

That you didn't pay attention doesn't mean we don't know what they are. The open questions are largely in regards to the details of what each tree gives to the specs, not in what their general design purpose is. That part they were pretty clear on and your argument is mostly just wishy-washy "but they could do more", when there's no reason to believe they will.

- - - Updated - - -



You will be disappointed because you're expecting something we already know it isn't.

Please dont worry about me being dissappointed huth, got it covered.

You clearly dont understand what I am saying, If you believe that I am expecting these things. The point is, that the info we got and what we know is very empty, bareboned. It should contain more. Its not wishy washy or w/e you want to call it. They speak of archtypes and how exciting that is, some names are very familiar. I mean, history will repeat itself and it will be a very limited feauture. That should be no surprise. Should it be more and something people should care or be interested it? Absolutely.

Again, this is your filmsy version of classskins aka blizz style and you better believe it. Not this fansite version of it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Pretty sure we will get a bare minimum in effort for the hero specs, no extra cosmetics, no titles, no *real* changes.

For all the naysayers, yes, in their warrior video they showed some visual difference, but that was 100% just one of the new talents spreading stormbolt instead of cosmetic awesomeness.

The feature trailer showed added lighting to avatar and heroic leap as well as storm bolt, sure they could scrap all of that but if they don’t then it’s likely other classes will get effects on there abilities.

[Makorus]

Please dont worry about me being dissappointed huth, got it covered.

You clearly dont understand what I am saying, If you believe that I am expecting these things. The point is, that the info we got and what we know is very empty, bareboned. It should contain more. Its not wishy washy or w/e you want to call it. They speak of archtypes and how exciting that is, some names are very familiar. I mean, history will repeat itself and it will be a very limited feauture. That should be no surprise. Should it be more and something people should care or be interested it? Absolutely.

Again, this is your filmsy version of classskins aka blizz style and you better believe it. Not this fansite version of it.

It is not class skins.

It is not class skins. No one at Blizzard ever called it that and I feel like they made a point out it to avoid any allusions to it.

Yeah. They are archetypes. But for every Dark Ranger, there's like 5 "Deathbringer" or "Spellslinger". It's simply names that kinda fit two specs at a time.

It is simply cool names for extra talents.

- - - Updated - - -

The feature trailer showed added lighting to avatar and heroic leap as well as storm bolt, sure they could scrap all of that but if they don’t then it’s likely other classes will get effects on there abilities.

Yeah, of course some abilities that get modified by Hero Talents are gonna get new effects. But we already have that happen in the current talent trees.

"Heroic Leap now leaves a crackling thunder AOE on impact"

[huth]

Please dont worry about me being dissappointed huth, got it covered.

You clearly dont understand what I am saying, If you believe that I am expecting these things. The point is, that the info we got and what we know is very empty, bareboned. It should contain more. Its not wishy washy or w/e you want to call it. They speak of archtypes and how exciting that is, some names are very familiar. I mean, history will repeat itself and it will be a very limited feauture. That should be no surprise. Should it be more and something people should care or be interested it? Absolutely.

Again, this is your filmsy version of classskins aka blizz style and you better believe it. Not this fansite version of it.

You've been very clear on what you expect. In particular, that you expect things we already know aren't coming because you refuse to accept that the system is just what Blizzard told us it is.

And no, this isn't even remotely similar to class skins. This has nothing to do with them. It's an extension of the talent system, not a cosmetic one.
This makes me think that you don't even understand what the class skin concept is about.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, of course some abilities that get modified by Hero Talents are gonna get new effects. But we already have that happen in the current talent trees.

"Heroic Leap now leaves a crackling thunder AOE on impact"

It serves a practical purpose of giving an indication it's not just the regular Leap, too. But it's still very much the same abilities with some added effects.

[Ersula]

It serves a practical purpose of giving an indication it's not just the regular Leap, too. But it's still very much the same abilities with some added effects.

Isn't that what class skins were? More radical transmogs, which they're adding all the time & specially themed ability visuals.

How is a Dark Ranger class skin different from Dark Ranger customizations, Dark Ranger transmog & Dark Ranger heroic talents used together?

This sounds like the "Season of Discovery isn't classic+ because when we asked for classic+ we were asking for something ridiculously impractical that we still want" argument.

[Makorus]

Isn't that what class skins were? More radical transmogs, which they're adding all the time & specially themed ability visuals.

How is a Dark Ranger class skin different from Dark Ranger customizations, Dark Ranger transmog & Dark Ranger heroic talents used together?

This sounds like the "Season of Discovery isn't classic+ because when we asked for classic+ we were asking for something ridiculously impractical that we still want" argument.

Because not every single spell is gonna be modified?

You are not a Dark Ranger because you spec into Wailing Arrow. The problem with class skins is that very few specs are suited for it, and it's mostly Paladins and Priests.

Not much you can do with a class skin in regards to a Warrior.

[Alanar]

You've been very clear on what you expect. In particular, that you expect things we already know aren't coming because you refuse to accept that the system is just what Blizzard told us it is.

And no, this isn't even remotely similar to class skins. This has nothing to do with them. It's an extension of the talent system, not a cosmetic one.
This makes me think that you don't even understand what the class skin concept .

Class skin concept is something that excists as a fan thing on these sites, lets not pretend its any more then that.

Again, the point is that what was shown is bareboned and pretty limited as far as feeling like a dark ranger or rider. You shouldnt worry about me expecting things. If my wording for you was confusing thats fine, but I told you before its not going to be a surprise on how limited this is going to be. You really dont have to explain me that, if you read more then what was said you will be dissappointed.

It should however be more then what was pressented. Not diving deeper in all those archtypes is a huge miss, but I am EXPECTING 10 talents and nothing more.

Should It do more, imo yes.

[Makorus]

Class skin concept is something that excists as a fan thing on these sites, lets not pretend its any more then that.

Again, the point is that what was shown is bareboned and pretty limited as far as feeling like a dark ranger or rider. You shouldnt worry about me expecting things. If my wording for you was confusing thats fine, but I told you before its not going to be a surprise on how limited this is going to be. You really dont have to explain me that, if you read more then what was said you will be dissappointed.

It should however be more then what was pressented. Not diving deeper in all those archtypes is a huge miss, but I am EXPECTING 10 talents and nothing more.

Should It do more, imo yes.

How are you gonna dive deeper on things like "Trickster", "Fatebound", "Totemic" or "Oracle"?

[Cherry123]

And considering how far away the new expansion is, the hype will only start working in the spring. I'm really looking forward to more material, maybe audio drama or animated comics like before. The saga clearly needs to be hyped, the opening cinematic is anti-hype

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yeah, of course some abilities that get modified by Hero Talents are gonna get new effects. But we already have that happen in the current talent trees.

"Heroic Leap now leaves a crackling thunder AOE on impact"

Ya there are a few talkers that change effects but that’s normally 1 or 2 per class.

If hero talents change the effects to say 10 abilities that they effect that’s like half a classes kit right there if not there whole rotation.

And of course they could effect things beyond jsut the 10 talents though we haven’t seen so yet.

[Makorus]

Ya there are a few talkers that change effects but that’s normally 1 or 2 per class.

If hero talents change the effects to say 10 abilities that they effect that’s like half a classes kit right there if not there whole rotation.

And of course they could effect things beyond jsut the 10 talents though we haven’t seen so yet.

We already know thats not the case.

[Sondrelk]

Class skin concept is something that excists as a fan thing on these sites, lets not pretend its any more then that.

Again, the point is that what was shown is bareboned and pretty limited as far as feeling like a dark ranger or rider. You shouldnt worry about me expecting things. If my wording for you was confusing thats fine, but I told you before its not going to be a surprise on how limited this is going to be. You really dont have to explain me that, if you read more then what was said you will be dissappointed.

It should however be more then what was pressented. Not diving deeper in all those archtypes is a huge miss, but I am EXPECTING 10 talents and nothing more.

Should It do more, imo yes.

I am going to give it the be edit of the doubt. We saw two from Druid, and while they were fairly bare bones, there also are not really any Druid class skin concepts that wouldn't require a more drastic retooling.

Dark Ranger could just be a change to Arcane Shot or what not. It could however also include significant changes, like several abilities changing damage type and visuals. Or otherwise have very obvious changes, like summoning undead minions.

[huth]

Isn't that what class skins were? More radical transmogs, which they're adding all the time & specially themed ability visuals.

Which is precisely why it's not that. These are still the same effect, just flashier, not a different effect.

Not much you can do with a class skin in regards to a Warrior.

Sounds more like a lack of imagination to me. I'd say Warrior is actually rather easy to pull off, since even relatively simple graphics could give them a significantly different feel. Maybe have a Monk-Warrior that cribs some monk animations and has a more agile style instead of the brute force variant Warriors tend to. Or add elemental effects.

Again, the point is that what was shown is bareboned and pretty limited as far as feeling like a dark ranger or rider. You shouldnt worry about me expecting things.

That in itself defines part of your expectations. It's not barebones. It's exactly what we were told it is. You are expecting more when we have no reason to do so.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We already know thats not the case.

No we really don’t as it’s still in development and subject to change.

Like this isn’t the first blizzcon ever we know things go through changes from announcement to launch or even from alpha launch to live launch.

[Eurhetemec]

It is not class skins.

It is not class skins. No one at Blizzard ever called it that and I feel like they made a point out it to avoid any allusions to it.

Yeah. They are archetypes. But for every Dark Ranger, there's like 5 "Deathbringer" or "Spellslinger". It's simply names that kinda fit two specs at a time.

It is simply cool names for extra talents.

I agree that it's not class skins, but we already know there's more to it than just "cool names for extra talents", because Blizzard have already said that abilities will be visually modified.

And you correctly pointed out that some specs already do that - that's kinda true - but either way, if the ability is modified, and it changes appearance, but doesn't totally change functionality, then that's a cosmetic change alongside other changes. Especially if the modifications are consistent and themed with the specific Heroic Talent set. Which is 100% what Blizzard showed, so it's bizarre that anyone is pretending otherwise.

Particularly if bread-and-butter abilities get modified appearances, that's going to give a strong cosmetic impact.

And we know the new DF-and-onwards Blizzard care a lot more cosmetic stuff in WoW than previously - another sign of this as pertains to abilities is their notice that in upcoming patches they're going to be modifying abilities which used to be SL Covenant abilities to have appearances congruent with the class abilities. For example, I play Vengeance DH, and The Hunt and Elysian Decree/Sigil both have bright blue effects which look cool but totally weird with the rest of my abilities, especially as I gained them the talent tree. What I would expect is at the very least those get recoloured, either to Fel green or some kind of purple or greenish yellow which at least kind of matches. They might even be modified more.

The trouble I see here is people just trying to argue extremes. Some people claiming there will be no cosmetic changes (we know this is not true), or that the cosmetic changes are nothing we haven't seen before, which is misleading, and other people trying to make out this is class skins (obviously nonsense).