The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Berkilak]

So that MrGM interview alluded to additions in the 10.2.x patches that no one will be able to predict. Any ideas that might prove that assertion wrong?

[Worldshaper]

You know what i find weird?

Is that in 7.3.5 ending cinematic Sargeras tried to do something with Azeroth WITHOUT immediately cutting it in half. No, he hanged there in a giant cloud of smoke and did something without us seeing it.
And only when the sucky beam hit him, his last "NO!" was him putting his sword into the planet.

What i find weird is that he didnt immediately nuked the planet. We all didnt think much about that, because we presumed its just the meaningless detail, gameplay flaw so to speak, but now, with World Soul Saga reframe, i start thinking that maybe initially Sargeras want to do something with Azeroth WITHOUT destroying the planet in the process.

Maybe he tried to free her, or cure her, or destroy without harming the people, and only when he realized he isnt going to make it in time, he drove the blade into it.

Maybe he actually had good non-destructive intentions at first.

I think it's possible (but not guaranteed by any means) that Sargeras initially wanted to destroy Azeroth's worldsoul in order to prevent her from being born as a super powerful Titan, who would threat upending his plans to create a Dark Pantheon and be unstoppable in the universe.

But then he had a vision of the worldsoul inside the core, and understood something significant about her.

Perhaps he saw her vast potential.
Perhaps he saw that she was being kept in stasis by the Titans, unable to do anything, and figured he needs to set her free.
Perhaps he saw that she was already consumed by darkness, and setting her free would benefit him.

We don't know, but it's fun to think about.

I think "The Last Titan" could refer to Sargeras or Azeroth, but I'm currently leaning to the former.

[Reive]

So that MrGM interview alluded to additions in the 10.2.x patches that no one will be able to predict. Any ideas that might prove that assertion wrong?

i wouldn't put much thought into it. they're good at overhyping even the smallest things. remember that they considered 4 new hair colors for belves a feature

[Santandame]

I hate this because unlike Xal, or Azshara, or Denathrius.... Iridikron does not have enough personality to be....the longest persistent antagonist we've ever had. These long-term stories never end well, just look at game of thrones: GRRM doesn't even want to finish writing it.

He doesn’t want to finish writing it because he doesn’t know how to finish it. He created too many plot lines and introduced too many characters later on in the story with their own plot lines that he has no idea how to wrap it up in a satisfying fashion; the Mereneese Knot being the biggest example of this.

Long term characters are not an issue and are not the reason why he doesn’t want to finish. He doesn’t know how to.

[Valysar]

When do you think PTR will be up, now that it's updated to 10.2.5 ?

[Nymrohd]

It would be nuts if Elun'Ahir/Erinethria/Avaloren was somehow part of Dragonflight, in a more story-focused sense.

Not sure how it'd work out, but maybe Tyr awakens and something in the Emerald Dream pushes that narrative further, of the realms of Life and what lies beyond the Dream, of Tyr's allegiances, of Eonar's role within the Pantheon and her relationship with Elune, the role of World Trees in general, etc. and how it all connects back to Azeroth and its worldsoul.

I don't know. I feel like there's an opportunity to expand on all of that lore before War Within, so the expansion has more context.

Maybe we find out Avaloren isn't some place in the physical world we can go and play around in for two years. It's not a continent. Instead, it's like... the source of the Dream, or some plane of existence on Azeroth that is in another dimension, or up in the sky or whatever. Perhaps it's Azeroth before the Old Gods arrived, you know. Some primordial paradise full of elementals.

My idea now for Elun'ahir is that we will find the roots below Sholazar during TLT and we will use it to summon Elune so she can help us against Aman'thul

[Reive]

When do you think PTR will be up, now that it's updated to 10.2.5 ?

next week. this one is gone

[Worldshaper]

My idea now for Elun'ahir is that we will find the roots below Sholazar during TLT and we will use it to summon Elune so she can help us against Aman'thul

There is pretty recent information about this, from the Exploring Azeroth: Northrend book.

When Muradin Bronzebeard wondered why Sholazar Basin and Un'Goro Crater were shaped so similarly, his brother Brann theorized that it could be to see how two similar setups diverge over time, like a science experiment. Or that there was one thing the titans and their keepers were trying to accomplish, and making two different places to work on it was better than one. However, these theories led Brann to wonder what they were trying to learn.

I wonder if perhaps Elun'Ahir left an original crater somewhere (the Maelstrom? Avaloren?) and they realised that life sprung from it. So then they attempted to recreate this effect at Un'Goro and Sholazar Basin, in an attempt learn how to control it?

It's strange, though. Because we know there's a corrupted World Tree in the Emerald Nightmare, right in the middle of Un'Goro. But Freya is the one who planted all those extra trees, alongside G'Hanir the Mother Tree, in the Emerald Dream. So perhaps Sholazar Basin and Un'Goro both had World Trees of their own inside the Emerald Dream, and the effect the Keepers are studying is that these sites would actually spring life around them, in the physical realm.

That's how G'Hanir caused life to spring in Azeroth after all, despite never being there physically.

It's also how the Emerald Dream has caused the Ohn'ahran Plains to be so verdant, IIRC, by proximity alone.

So, to summarise:

> Freya created a bunch of World Trees inside the Emerald Dream many thousands of years ago, including G'Hanir.

> Some of these trees are seemingly so powerful, they cause Life to spread in the same location in the physical realm.

> Some of these trees have also given offspring (through their branches and acorns) planted directly within the physical realm, such as Nordrassil.

> I'm assuming World Trees exist in both realms regardless of in which realm they were planted, since the Old Gods were able to access the Dream when Andrassil/Vordrassil's roots reached the prison of Yogg-Saron. So maybe Sholazar and Un'Goro both lost their "physical" trees?

[Berkilak]

He doesn’t want to finish writing it because he doesn’t know how to finish it. He created too many plot lines and introduced too many characters later on in the story with their own plot lines that he has no idea how to wrap it up in a satisfying fashion; the Mereneese Knot being the biggest example of this.

Long term characters are not an issue and are not the reason why he doesn’t want to finish. He doesn’t know how to.

More than that, when people call him the American Tolkien, they couldn’t be more right. The problem is, in typical English fashion, Tolkien’s writing was an academic exercise. Whereas GRRM’s writing has always been a typically American capitalist exercise. And he already made more money than he knows what to do with. There’s nothing motivating him anymore.

[Ersula]

The idea of Sargeras being a misunderstood renegade who just wants to free Azeroth is interesting, but I think there's just too much old lore that contradicts it. Even in Legion, Sargeras speaks directly to Aggramar and tells him they need to complete the rebirth [of the Titans into a Dark Pantheon] so they can go bananas on the universe.

The Eredar in the Twisting Nether corrupted Sargeras, no wait.

The Dreadlords convinced Sargeras help the Jailer unmake reality, no wait.

Actually, the Titans are bad & Sargeras just wanted to get her away from them, no wait.

How many times do they have to retcon this man?

He doesn’t want to finish writing it because he doesn’t know how to finish it.

Same thing. They're going to be dealing with this same problem by the time they get to The Last Titan. Starting a story is easy, ending one is hard.

[rainhard]

Oh and a funny coincidence. The new wild god, Q'onzu.

One of his questions to the player:

What imprisons, but also protects?

The right answer ends up being: Stasis.

Foreshadowing, much?

About Q'onzu, i noticed that in the quests with aviana he says something about protecting the great roots we are unaware of being as deep as they are, this seems to tie him in as a protector of the original tree Elun'ahir, that would also explain his different blueish color in skin and abilities and does tie in his desire for change with the pre titan changing nature of the dream.

[Berkilak]

i wouldn't put much thought into it. they're good at overhyping even the smallest things. remember that they considered 4 new hair colors for belves a feature

Eh, I wouldn’t be surprised by a surprise. Drakonid allied race m, for example, could be cool.

Also, 60k!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Just like the Old Gods having nothing to do with Il'gynoth corrupting Un'Goro.

Just like the Jailer having nothing to do with Sylvanas zooming around like a black cloud to collect souls for the Maw.

Just like Sargeras having nothing to do with Archimonde seeking to burn Nordrassil.

Oh, wait...

All of those were directly set to those task, the Aspects weren’t, the titans had no input and would likely just want the incarnates dead because there was no reason not to kill them beyond Alex’s compassion.

So thanks you prove my point.

[Walrusking]

I wonder what they will do with Earthen death knights?
Toss them in the allied race dk starter area and call it good, toss them in the Earthen starting area and ignore it or make a new little area explaining how/why they were raised.

[Worldshaper]

Looking back, Sholazar Basin is an amazing zone. It's starting to show its age a bit, but the atmosphere is great. I remember having a blast and feeling quite immersed levelling there, back in 2007.

--------

Anyway, I think Life on Azeroth has been seeded in different phases. Life (and Death) exists in different ways, because the cosmic force of Life affects everything and everyone in the physical realm (the Great Dark Beyond). That's why Life can exist not just as flowers and animals, but also as Old Gods and even worldsouls.

Phase 1

• When the universe formed, Light and Shadow clashed endlessly. Shards of Light were flung into the physical universe, and seeded Life on the worlds that they crashed into. One crashed into Azeroth and is now located in Hallowfall. That's when the worldsoul and the Elementals sprung to life on Azeroth.
• This is probably the age in which Elune first took notice of Azeroth, but eventually other forces did as well.

Phase 2

• The Old Gods crashed into Azeroth, which themselves aren't just (albeit rather chaotic) forms of Life, but they also created Life: the Aqir. This is why the Nerubians are the children of the First Flesh. The Old Gods were the first "flesh".

Phase 3

• The Titans arrived and won the war against the Old Gods and the Elemental Lords. One could argue the titanforged weren't living creatures initially, but once Yogg-Saron gave them the Curse of Flesh, they were. This gave us Dwarves, Humans, Gnomes, etc.
• As an aside, the Earthen of Khaz Algar were also infused with the essence of Azeroth's worldsoul, so they're sort of... alive in two ways, perhaps?
• Coinciding with this, many forms of life evolved as Elune seemingly manipulated Eonar and Freya into creating World Trees, which serve as a link between the realms of Life and the physical world of Azeroth. This gave rise to Trolls, Tauren, Elves, etc.

[RahEndymion]

Is this thread hidden or something? Doesn't seem to show in forums anymore?

On topic:

It would be fitting for Blizz to offer Dragonkin allied race at the end of DF. I know it would make a lot of players happy.

Personally, I am hoping for a little more and perhaps getting a Forbidden Reach style zone with some corruption/trinket/annulet style rotation breaking effects. Doesn't have to be huge but enough so that if there is a S4 or a fated season, it gives a bit of varying gameplay.

Perhaps even go a bit deeper on professions and give farmable / unlockable recipes that do fun things from cosmetics to toys etc.

Outside of raiding there is a lot that can be done to make the game a bit more fun and varied.

[Worldshaper]

All of those were directly set to those task, the Aspects weren’t, the titans had no input and would likely just want the incarnates dead because there was no reason not to kill them beyond Alex’s compassion.

So thanks you prove my point.

You have literally no idea of any of that, because none of that knowledge has been revealed to us. You know Il'gynoth is a postule of N'Zoth, but show me the dialogue that says: "Hey Il'gynoth. N'Zoth here. Listen, could you pop over to Un'Goro for a bit and infest its World Tree? Okay thanks."

All of these extensions of their respective cosmic forces (the Dragon Aspects, the Old Gods, the undead, the Wild Gods, etc.) are all driven innately by the desire to spread their own force's influence in the world. It's just a part of who they are. So a Titan doesn't have to directly address Queen Alexstrasza and say: "Hey Alex, go bless the World Tree Nordrassil for me, will you?" But her doing so is because of her innate desire to protect Azeroth and further the agenda of Order.

[Revamp Man]

Interesting that it says the next 3 expansions are "as large as DF, SL and BFA". BFA was far larger than the other 2

Was it?
A single raid more but noticeably less playable content

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You have literally no idea of any of that, because none of that knowledge has been revealed to us. You know Il'gynoth is a postule of N'Zoth, but show me the dialogue that says: "Hey Il'gynoth. N'Zoth here. Listen, could you pop over to Un'Goro for a bit and infest its World Tree? Okay thanks."

From our good friend the knife, its literally a part of him.

It appears the prison of N’zoth is not as strong as it once was. What you see is a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world.

We also had a full novel about Sylvanas getting told what to do by the jailer.

And from the ultimate visual guide.

Archimonde raged and brooded for ten thousand years in the dark recesses of the Twisting Nether as they planned for a new invasion as per Sargeras's will. Again, their target would be the second Well of Eternity.

Nothing like any of this exist for the aspects as the titans were dead and so was Tyr there contact to the keepers.

So again thanks for proving my point.

[Dhomeli]

I wonder what they will do with Earthen death knights?
Toss them in the allied race dk starter area and call it good, toss them in the Earthen starting area and ignore it or make a new little area explaining how/why they were raised.

Interesting question. Perhaps they play it off as Bolvar raised some of Northrend’s Earthen dwarves?