The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Murlocos]

See, if you separate gameplay systems from content, I don't think BfA's lacked quality. It has some of the best questing zones ever, most of the raids were between good and great, the dungeons were almost all solid, the islands were so interesting as set pieces etc. But almost every system attached to the content was just bad; Azerite was a mess, the gameplay for IEs did not much the content (which very much lent itself to exploration instead of rushing), warfronts, the affixes in the first two seasons were so bad . . .

The delineation between content and systems is nebulous, but I'd consider stuff like Warfronts and Island Expeditions 'content' compared to Azerite being more of a system. Warfronts ultimately just dump you gear at the end, after all. It was a whole bunch of pain points amplifying each other as you did content that wasn't very enjoyable to engage with systems that proved to be headaches.

BfA had a lot going on that was conceptually interesting but fell apart in practice with minimal testing; we saw that with Azerite armor, and I'll always be a high key Warfront hater in every respect in being utterly baffled how they only got worse going from Stromgarde to Darkshore. Then SL came out and had glaring conceptual problems or repeated mistakes that they seemed to think they could solve by just believing hard enough. DF and TWW (so far) have lacked those kinds of headaches, I'm just looking for some actual meat now.

[Nymrohd]

The delineation between content and systems is nebulous, but I'd consider stuff like Warfronts and Island Expeditions 'content' compared to Azerite being more of a system. Warfronts ultimately just dump you gear at the end, after all. It was a whole bunch of pain points amplifying each other as you did content that wasn't very enjoyable to engage with systems that proved to be headaches.

BfA had a lot going on that was conceptually interesting but fell apart in practice with minimal testing; we saw that with Azerite armor, and I'll always be a high key Warfront hater in every respect in being utterly baffled how they only got worse going from Stromgarde to Darkshore. Then SL came out and had glaring conceptual problems or repeated mistakes that they seemed to think they could solve by just believing hard enough. DF and TWW (so far) have lacked those kinds of headaches, I'm just looking for some actual meat now.

DF has one thing going for it and that is class gameplay. While it lacks the power fantasy of Legion and the versatility of MoP, most specs play quite well and the expansion is quite alt friendly. So while the content is imo at best average, the talent revamp has largely been a success (yes, some specs suck but it is thankfully very few of them. I hope they get to you all). It should be easy for them to not fuck this up and just improve it further but Hero Talents definitely have potential to disrupt all their work in DF.

[Vakir]

I still feel BfA is the most ambitious expansion. Warfronts and AI mobs for Islands (and the Arathi AI bg) are all innovations.
Delves will be interesting. I really wonder how Brann's behaviour will be managed and if he will be escort quest from hell or not.

It definitely was highly ambitious on paper. But good gravy did they fuck up almost every single aspect. More recently leaning a lot more on GW2 for outdoor content and 14 for trade skills and soon account allowances is a godsend compared to...whatever the fuck those things were.

Warfronts were probably THE most excited I've been for a feature in practice given the franchise pedigree as an RTS first. I still think there's a version of it that could work. But it would have zero semblance to what we got.

[Nymrohd]

It definitely was highly ambitious on paper. But good gravy did they fuck up almost every single aspect. More recently leaning a lot more on GW2 for outdoor content and 14 for trade skills and soon account allowances is a godsend compared to...whatever the fuck those things were.

Now if only they could copy ESO's housing

[huth]

Are you serious?
7 Large zones, 1 small zone, 4 revamped zones
38 raid encounters
10 dungeons, 1 megadungeon
2 warfronts, 11 island expeditions, 2 Visions
1 Battleground, 1 revamped battleground, 2 zones revamped as epic battlegrounds, 3 new arenas

7 medium zones (that together weren't bigger than DF on release), 1 small zone, 2 revamped zones that were mostly new rares, 2 non-revamped zones that got new quests. And that was by 8.3, not by release.

[Worldshaper]

Mate we literally just had a novel release that addresses all of this.

We know for a fact that they were doing things blindly and that they didn’t even have vague orders let alone precise ones nor was there even any instincts imparted on them in how to deal with things, they also had no contact with the keepers beyond Tyr’s death hundreds of years before the prisons were even thought up, this is all brought up in the novel multiple times.

Not only do your ideas have no basis in the lore they are are directly refuted by blizzard them self in there latest release.

I'll just sit here and await any quotes you'd like to provide from War of the Scaleborn which refute that the Dragon Aspects are of Order, use the Titans' magic, and serve the Titan agenda.

While you go find those, I'll just be chilling over here in one of these Titan facilities alongside the Aspects, trying to ressurect Tyr or constructing some Titan prison mechanisms.

[Revamp Man]

"Great content" I think you forgot you're talking about BFA. We don't need retroactive cope here.

The islands were a fun little lore dump
The expedition system ruined it because it was the main way to gain AP

Visions were cool little challenge runs
Mechagon and the nazjatar were two zones but because of benthic pearls and the rep garbage the fun stuff got overlooked

I mean look back at any actual content and the complaints will mostly be about the attached systems

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DF has one thing going for it and that is class gameplay. While it lacks the power fantasy of Legion and the versatility of MoP, most specs play quite well and the expansion is quite alt friendly. So while the content is imo at best average, the talent revamp has largely been a success (yes, some specs suck but it is thankfully very few of them. I hope they get to you all). It should be easy for them to not fuck this up and just improve it further but Hero Talents definitely have potential to disrupt all their work in DF.

I'm still confused about the hero talent system in do we get a choice between two per main spec or is it just a 1:1

[Cheezits]

Now if only they could copy ESO's housing

Midnight makes sense to introduce housing considering the zones, but maybe we will get a twist reveal with Amirdrassil opening up housing for the first time?

[Marlamin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8zWAPDUTkc 1 hour Q&A, ~30 min retail ~30 min classic

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'll just sit here and await any quotes you'd like to provide from War of the Scaleborn which refute that the Dragon Aspects are of Order, use the Titans' magic, and serve the Titan agenda.

While you go find those, I'll just be chilling over here in one of these Titan facilities alongside the Aspects, trying to ressurect Tyr or constructing some Titan prison mechanisms.

lol you keep moving that goalpost every time your wrong don’t you.

Nan I’m good I’ll sit here content that’s every point up To now you have made has been wrong and even directly disputed by blizzard.

[Ersula]

You do realize the Worldsoul Saga was made to start up the next 20 years of WoW, yeah? Also, the Progenitors exist to build up new stories in WoW. They never never made to replace the Titans or so.

They said the same sort of thing about Shadowlands. Red Flag.

Metzen only being on stage for 5 minutes spouting the same platitudes we got for 9.0 shriveled up all my hype.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I am not surprised they won't answer the faster cadence question. It seems like they will hold onto that trump card for the "Augment Rune announced for 11.2" like they depend on it.

The Narrative will always be the first thing on the chopping block for the Development Team to axe. We've seen so for the past few expansions. So the entire promise from the Team that has never cared about the Narrative is beyond comedic at this point.

Baffled at this point that they think they can stretch this charade of not going over the Raid Tier/Major patch question for each box set and instead leaving it as another "SURPRISE! RUGPULLED".

[Valysar]

3 more updates for DF, I suppose 10.2.5 / 10.2.7 / 10.2.9 ?

[Ersula]

Shadowlands was made to close a book in Warcraft, which it did. Domination is gone, the Lich King doesn't exist anymore, we saw a workshop of the creators of the Cosmology, Azeroths true purpose seemingly expanded a bit, etc. Dragonflight was more-so the bonus chapter, the intermission expansion if you will.

The Worldsoul Saga basically concludes stuff built up from the early Cosmic stuff, while also building up stories for the next 20 years in the process. Think of it as the opening of a new book, part 2 if you will.

Then I say if Shadowlands could do that in one expansion, why can't TWW?

An expansion isn't a brief period of time.

[Worldshaper]

lol you keep moving that goalpost every time your wrong don’t you.

Nan I’m good I’ll sit here content that’s every point up To now you have made has been wrong and even directly disputed by blizzard.

I mean, not really. My original point was always that something is fishy about there being a prison just like Iridikron's on the logo of The Last Titan. It was you who started something really convoluted and lost track of the discussion.

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So far a lot of repeated information in this QA.

[Treegdar]

I think BfA's launch offering is one of the more potent showcases of how poorly designed content fares little better than no content in the eyes of the community, but the WoD debacle has tilted the quantity vs. quality debate over content firmly in the side of quantity for a long time now. The game was being designed around avoiding WoD again long after its release, even if that eventually lead to total burnout with systems.

DF has prioritized content delivery above all else, and I believe it's time for us to shift to the quality side of content. They've focused on reducing friction with the game and that's continuing into TWW, now it's on them to show they can deliver engaging new content and systems rather than just demonstrating they can pump out loads of quests as they have been with DF. If Delves are nailed correctly on release, I think a strong new endgame pillar will be a huge benefit to keeping the game fresh.

Agreed on all fronts. BFA promised so much with warfronts and Islands, but both were mostly hated or just received with a "meh" at best. Warfronts tho I gotta say they never sounded even the slightest bit interesting to me. One of the things they said when trying to hype the feature was, "its like an RTS but instead of controlling all the units your character is one of the units. Going from gathering resources to a soldier on the battlefield." Idk about anyone else, but being a WC3 peon sounded boring and tedious AF at the time and it turned out to be that way. I'm actually baffled Blizz got passed the idea stage on warfronts cause literally nothing about them was actually fun. It was run around for 10 minutes killing some enemies and chopping some trees. Then waiting 5 minutes for the NPC siege weapons to break down the enemy fortress.

[Nymrohd]

3 more updates for DF, I suppose 10.2.5 / 10.2.7 / 10.2.9 ?

5 and 7 as before and 9 for Fated season.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean, not really. My original point was always that something is fishy about there being a prison just like Iridikron's on the logo of The Last Titan. It was you who started something really convoluted and lost track of the discussion.

Lol yea really, your original point was that it was a Titan prison which was wrong and then a lot of nonsense trying to say it was still something the titans told them to do or they got from the titans in some way which is untrue.

“There’s a Titan prison on the logo!”
No it’s a dragon prison with nothing to do with the titans.

“But it has Titan prison runes”
The runes have nothing to do with prisons they are just Titan scripts

“But the dragons are just like sylvanas and co who didn't need orders!”
All of them had orders the dragons didn’t.

“We don’t know that the dragons didn’t have orders”
We do.

“But the dragons use order magic!”
And finally you got something right.

[Cheezits]

10.2.5 Reality Amirdrassil minizone given quests and content

10.2.7 heritage quests, race class unlocks, customizations, finale story quests

10.2.9 fated

My guesses.

[Worldshaper]

Lol yea really, your original point was that it was a Titan prison which was wrong and then a lot of nonsense trying to say it was still something the titans told them to do or they got from the titans in some way which is untrue.

“There’s a Titan prison on the logo!”
No it’s a dragon prison with nothing to do with the titans.

“But it has Titan prison runes”
The runes have nothing to do with prisons they are just Titan scripts

“But the dragons are just like sylvanas and co who didn't need orders!”
All of them had orders the dragons didn’t.

“We don’t know that the dragons didn’t have orders”
We do.

“But the titans use order magic!”
And finally you got something right.

I've never seen someone be so wrong and so convinced he's right at the same time.

For umpteenth time, real simpe this time:

The Dragon Aspects were created by the Titans, infused with their powers and left in charge of the protection of Azeroth.

The Titans tended to use imprisonment as a way to subdue their enemies, creating order from chaos.

The Dragon Aspects have been shown to do the same, going as far as using Titan technology and runes on their prison cells.

The Last Titan has one of those prisons on it, and we know the expansion is going to drop a few bombs about the Titans and the worldsoul.

Meanwhile, you: "Nah mate, the Dragon Aspects barely even know the Titans. "