The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

I'm aware. It's why I don't like the Jailers character execution wise, though I'll still respect his power.

Respect his...?!

He's a fictional character!

Seriously, Metzen can write, I dunno, Durak, to be the post powerful character in the lore tomorrow! That wouldn't make it "respectable" by default!

Sometimes certain story decisions are just bad. The basic idea of a similar character archetype to Sargeras, the black sheep of the group that pulled the Satan decision and rebelled against their charge out of ambition/extremist preservation, but with Death alignment instead, isn't a bad idea on paper, but the Jailer's entire role as 7 dimensional schemer that undermined all of canon retroactively is certainly one of them.

Warcraft's writing hasn't been good in...well over 20 years, frankly, but certain things can still damage it. This and the First Ones are among them. When did you start playing/following the lore, by the way?

[Schwert]

No wonder you anti-faction people get so upset. You actually think your opinion is the overwhelming majority and it's just 5 people holding you up.

I sincerely want these people to ask people at a convention what World of Warcraft is about.
Just got back from Blizzcon and the first thing somebody asked - every single time - after finding out I played WoW was what faction I played. Not race. Not server. Faction.

It matters.

[damonskye]

I sincerely want these people to ask people at a convention what World of Warcraft is about.
Just got back from Blizzcon and the first thing somebody asked - every single time - after finding out I played WoW was what faction I played. Not race. Not server. Faction.

It matters.

Y'all had your twenty years of faction nonsense. It's boring, it's been-there-done-that. Wars that go on forever aren't interesting.

Also, sure, people identify with their factions and that's where their *gameplay* is. It doesn't mean they are all going out and PvPing the shit out of each other. Lots of people really don't care about anything other than "I'm Alliance" or "I'm Horde" and meanwhile "let's go do a raid/dungeon/something fun in the game." I'm fine with the PvPers acting out their faction conflict in war mode if that's where they want to be. I sure don't.

Meanwhile, I'm sure that Blizzard is seeking their own counsel, not the vociferous MMOC forum posting squad, about how they want to shape their game and whether faction war is important to the general player base.

- - - Updated - - -

Although no roadmap, we get confirmation there will be 3 patches. Imo 10.2 will last until middle January (I don't think any patch was released before 15th January), then 2.5 month long 10.2.5 with timewalking, 2.5 month long 10.2.7 with some story wrap up and 3 month long Season 4. This (together with info they want keep regular 2-3 month patches until 11.0) and Alpha plans for Spring make me think release is planned rather for late September/early October than usual late November.

Someone kind of posted a rough idea of a schedule earlier, which was basically:

January/February - 10.2.5
March/April - 10.2.7
May/June - 10.2.whatever
July/August - prepatch for TWW
September - TWW boom!

This wouldn't surprise me in the least, because the math works.

[Scyth]

I sincerely want these people to ask people at a convention what World of Warcraft is about.
Just got back from Blizzcon and the first thing somebody asked - every single time - after finding out I played WoW was what faction I played. Not race. Not server. Faction.

It matters.

Thr first thing people ask me when they find out I play WoW is what class I play.
I can do this too you see

Someone else already made the same comment but faction wars are boring and have been done more than enough already. Not to mention it’s always the same thing. I’m not quite sure WoW’s subscriber count would go up if we had the same faction war every single xpac.

[Vakir]

I sincerely want these people to ask people at a convention what World of Warcraft is about.
Just got back from Blizzcon and the first thing somebody asked - every single time - after finding out I played WoW was what faction I played. Not race. Not server. Faction.

It matters.

Look, if you wanna consoom propaganda designed to sell you merchandise and split your game into halves, go right ahead. The actual ethos of these factions hasn't held up to scrutiny in decades. Any meaningful conflict went out the window when you can pop onto your Alliance toon in ICC and Saurfang is the aggressor, then hop on your Horde main and find it's Muradin. Everything is just calculated and manipulated to obfuscate any continuity for the purposes of jerking off taglines like "For the X" on a T-Shirt. Nothing matters and all of it is designed to create forum drama as a forced sense of investment.

People are going to point to the kumbaya softboi shit of current WoW only to realize that it's pretty much always been like this with the exception of WC1 and 2. You know, the ones with a single player campaignwhere you can have a satisfying canon ending.

Any faction war or faction involvement is just a temporary stop-gap to pad the crap out of things with filler while the A-plot waits in an MMO setting. The only time it ever worked successfully was Garrosh which, even then, was just a plot about how much he ended up pissing off everyone without the direct interaction of the two factions until the endgame. The one time it was done correctly was here because there were sympathetic reasons for the Horde to slowly push back against him vs. the times they attempted to replicate it with, say, Sylvanas, which ended up just being vague "honor" stand-ins as a homogenized Western values pile.

Cataclysm was an absolute slaughter purely because they already fucked up on release - Thrall, Jaina, and Bolvar were completely immobile characters with no reason for any kind of beef and things were stacked massively in Alliance favor as far as leveling zones, so we had a valid excuse for Garrosh to land-grab during an imaginary off-screen timeskip. But surely this meant we'd see satisfying outcomes for both sides---LOL NOPE. Compared to the stunningly good Silverpine revamp, get your goofy dog-ass to Darkshore, you're losing to the Forsaken off-screen. The Goblins get to actually do things in their sequel zone!

So no, it doesn't matter and creates new problems. It's why two-faction games aren't exactly popular anymore, certainly not in an MMO space, outside of...well, that thing Blizzard wanted Warcraft to be that they didn't get the rights for. And it's great, I love both Warhammer incarnations, but it only marginally worked for Age of Reckoning before it bombed because it was a PvP-centric game. There's no narrative payoff or investment intended. And even then, gods help you if you played Order.

Christ, even SWTOR couldn't sustain itself through its launch content without going soft uni-faction. Darth Malgus? That heavily marketed guy who is actually really successful in all his appearances at the whole being Sith thing because he actually accepted alien races and isn't a fucking moron? Both sides go ahead and kill him as the launch boss because we need a status quo. We can't have a satisfying ending otherwise because they can't script an MMO around that shit. Eternal Empire in sequels? More uni-faction! It's almost like it doesn't work for a theme park MMO model.

Oh, and then Malgus comes back...to be an antagonist for both sides again, basically, once they were done exhuming and fucking the corpse of Revan. It's almost like it was a doomed premise from the start.

WoW's literally the biggest version of the second most expensive genre you can make behind giant open world GTA-esque games, a theme park MMO. They don't need MORE bland content barriers to muddy the waters when they're already struggling to maintain a decent cadence.

You still have PvP if you want to LARP holding the world's biggest idiot ball while existential threats come knocking on a schedule of every 1.5 to 2 years.

The "Do you play the good guys or the bad guys?" question I got from mouth-breathers who never even picked up the game is so 2004.

[Schwert]

The "Do you play the good guys or the bad guys?" question I got from mouth-breathers who never even picked up the game is so 2004.

Literally nobody asks this.
Not even bothering reading the rest of your insult laden dribble after attempting the first paragraph.

Horde vs Alliance is a core component of the Warcraft IP.
We are literally getting a new battleground.
It is not going anywhere, and should have a slightly bigger focus because it's what makes the IP unique.

And catering to people who froth at the mouth over the mere idea that people enjoy it and start throwing out insults left and right like its somehow makes them superior to people who enjoy a game as it was is just brand suicide. WoW feels overtly generic now. Wonder why?

- - - Updated - - -

Thr first thing people ask me when they find out I play WoW is what class I play.
I can do this too you see

Someone else already made the same comment but faction wars are boring and have been done more than enough already. Not to mention it’s always the same thing. I’m not quite sure WoW’s subscriber count would go up if we had the same faction war every single xpac.

Why are you playing a game about faction wars if you find them boring?
Like, sincerely, stop consuming product that was not made for you if you don't like it instead of crying to people who enjoy core aspects of it.

I cannot wait to see how hard people whine about the new battleground existing. Like, it's not. going. anywhere. They literally just added more of it.

You know what's boring?
Everything being a-ok between groups that hated each other. How the everloving crap can somebody say faction stuff is overdone too, when it only had a core focus in MoP and BFA? You're telling me stuff like Wrathgate sucked too? Lmao.

[Nymrohd]

Everything being a-ok between groups that hated each other. How the everloving crap can somebody say faction stuff is overdone too, when it only had a core focus in MoP and BFA? You're telling me stuff like Wrathgate sucked too? Lmao.

Really the one thing that has been overdone in WoW is the Void.

[Raetary]

No wonder you anti-faction people get so upset. You actually think your opinion is the overwhelming majority and it's just 5 people holding you up.

If it wasn't a majority opinion, Blizzard would've never even considered the possibility to open up faction barriers.
CFP was across the board a highly popular systemic change as *newsflash* people fucking love it when their game experience isn't dumbed down by arbitrary restrictions from 20 years ago.

People actually enjoy getting to play with their friends and have an actual array of options when they open up the groupfinder.

And now we even have cross-faction guilds because of it.

Horde vs Alliance is a core component of the Warcraft IP.

Yes.
As a narrative component.

It stopped being a popular gameplay component ages ago.

[KyleEverett]

Cross faction isn't going anywhere. They won't remove features after they are added.

If you paid attention, the battleground is presented as a small skirmish over some resources. It's certainly no big battle sanctioned by the leaders.

[Nymrohd]

Cross faction isn't going anywhere. They won't remove features after they are added.

If you paid attention, the battleground is presented as a small skirmish over some resources. It's certainly no big battle sanctioned by the leaders.

See, I never saw a reason why cross faction and faction pvp cannot coexist. Guilds can be supranational organizations. The factions can be skirmishing constantly without that affecting the players. If it was up to me, we would have had cross faction from day one. Then maybe paladins could have stayed with the Alliance and Shaman with the Horde etc.

[ChronoSul]

Why are you playing a game about faction wars if you find them boring?
Like, sincerely, stop consuming product that was not made for you if you don't like it instead of crying to people who enjoy core aspects of it.

I cannot wait to see how hard people whine about the new battleground existing. Like, it's not. going. anywhere. They literally just added more of it.

You know what's boring?
Everything being a-ok between groups that hated each other. How the everloving crap can somebody say faction stuff is overdone too, when it only had a core focus in MoP and BFA? You're telling me stuff like Wrathgate sucked too? Lmao.

First off Cata also had the faction war core to it atleast in the revamp. BUT either way I think u have your answer if u only consider bfa. Bfa burnt a lot of people on the concept because yet again one faction played second fiddle to the other in order to progress its story. But this time with a genocide Attached that went unpunished leading a lot of people to realize that the war is just going to be a cycle of horde does x bad thing -> horde has civil war -> Alliance helps rebels -> Horde gets away scot free. Its happen in BOTH expansions that u listed with the faction war as its CORE IDENTITY. Thats why its so boring to a lot of people.

Put a twist on the faction war so it isnt literally the same story 2 expansion that it was core then people would find it more interesting. BUT given the general Alliance Leadership that wont happen. Because if it did the Alliance fans would scream how out of character that it is for the faction as many play the alliance to be "the good guys". In short in the MMO setting a 2 faction system doesnt work because u can never do anything completely drastic to one side with doing it to the other. The closest we got was the burning of the tree but blizz also had Sylvanas bomb her own city to keep the city count equal.

[Nymrohd]

First off Cata also had the faction war core to it atleast in the revamp. BUT either way I think u have your answer if u only consider bfa. Bfa burnt a lot of people on the concept because yet again one faction played second fiddle to the other in order to progress its story. But this time with a genocide Attached that went unpunished leading a lot of people to realize that the war is just going to be a cycle of horde does x bad thing -> horde has civil war -> Alliance helps rebels -> Horde gets away scot free. Its happen in BOTH expansions that u listed with the faction war as its CORE IDENTITY. Thats why its so boring to a lot of people.

Put a twist on the faction war so it isnt literally the same story 2 expansion that it was core then people would find it more interesting. BUT given the general Alliance Leadership that wont happen. Because if it did the Alliance fans would scream how out of character that it is for the faction as many play the alliance to be "the good guys". In short in the MMO setting a 2 faction system doesnt work because u can never do anything completely drastic to one side with doing it to the other. The closest we got was the burning of the tree but blizz also had Sylvanas bomb her own city to keep the city count equal.

Honestly BfA just took the significant part of the Horde playerbase that wanted the WC3 honorable savages Horde to the back and shot them dead. Can't really recover from that.

[ChronoSul]

Honestly BfA just took the significant part of the Horde playerbase that wanted the WC3 honorable savages Horde to the back and shot them dead. Can't really recover from that.

Still alive compared to the savage night elves of WC3. In fact U could say that Honorable Savages is more live then ever all it took was to do one of the least honorable things they could to get there

[Nymrohd]

Still alive compared to the savage night elves of WC3. In fact U could say that Honorable Savages is more live then ever all it took was to do one of the least honorable things they could to get there

Savage Night Elves got killed in Cata And when they tried to come out of the grave Blizz told them "Hush Tyrande"

[huth]

Honestly BfA just took the significant part of the Horde playerbase that wanted the WC3 honorable savages Horde to the back and shot them dead. Can't really recover from that.

What are you talking about? If anything, they lined up and shot the other half and called it worthless.

[Worldshaper]

Here's an optimistic take on the possible story of The War Within.

• The worldsoul is inherently a benevolent being, forged in the dawn of the universe by its fundamental building blocks: Light and Shadow, but shaped and moulded over the many thousands of years by the other forces. Her spark was kindled when the Shard crashed into Hallowfall. Each force seeks to claim her for their own.
• Her Radiant Song calls out to Heroes of Azeroth, sometimes beautiful and hopeful, but other times dark and terrifying. Her dreams are shaped by her surroundings, and she can feel the clutches of the Void closing in. As the Shard is increasingly turning dark within Hallowfall, as part of its natural lifecycle (from Light the Void will always spring), the worldsoul follows suit.
• A central theme of the expansion is for its cast of characters, including the worldsoul, to discover who they really are, and settle their internal conflicts. Through that, the expansion's dark ending (Xal'atath causing Midnight) will come with a silverlining: Azeroth's worldsoul is confirmed as a force of good, someone we want to fight for, against any force who would seek to claim it for their own.

Oh, and some speculation about what Xal'atath is up to.

• We now know that the Children of the First Flesh who "toil in the deep places" to "reclaim what was lost" are the Nerubians enlisted by Xal'atath, now gathering the Blood of the Old Gods in the darkest depths of Azj-Kahet. The raid, Nerub'ar Palace, has a section caled the Harvest Pits where they gather this blood.
• In Dragonflight, we know Xal'atath conspired with Iridikron to reclaim "a hunger lost to the ages", which he did by gathering the essence of Galakrond.
• We also know "a dark heart left broken awaits the taking," and it makes sense if Xal'atath is going after it.
• Her goal is to carry out an "awakening", after which Queen Azshara will return to Azeroth to rule.

Given the location of Khaz Algar being between Silithus and Pandaria, this is where Y'Shaarj and C'thun's domains overlapped in the Black Empire.

Did she collect the essences of N'Zoth and Yogg-Saron already by claiming the blade and Galakrond's essence, and is she now going for the essence of C'thun and Y'Shaarj in the south?

Or is she specifically going for the blood of Y'Shaarj given its proximity to Pandaria?

It feels like she's collecting essences from other Old Gods, needed to carry out the awakening. Is is the awakening of her own former body, or of Azeroth's worldsoul?

[KyleEverett]

My theory is the crystal in Hallowsfall is a Naaru heart. Yes it's massive but still. Xal wants old god blood to make crystals to make her own void lord. Succeed or fail whatever she does allows her to corrupt the Sunwell.

[CasualFilth]

Do you guys think we may get a mini 1 or 2 boss raid before 11.0? (ala FFXIV trial style)

Maybe fighting Tyr or Iridikron?

[Ersula]

My theory is the crystal in Hallowsfall is a Naaru heart. Yes it's massive but still. Xal wants old god blood to make crystals to make her own void lord. Succeed or fail whatever she does allows her to corrupt the Sunwell.

I think it's a Naaru Ship, assuming ones designed for just Naaru are slightly different from the Draenei ones we saw on Argus. And there's probably been a Naaru trapped inside for a hundred thousand years. The part that is embedded in the crust is simply pinning the doors closed.

The worldsoul is inherently a benevolent being, forged in the dawn of the universe by its fundamental building blocks: Light and Shadow, but shaped and moulded over the many thousands of years by the other forces. Her spark was kindled when the Shard crashed into Hallowfall. Each force seeks to claim her for their own.

The Thrall/Alleria interactions better be super awkward: She completely forsook her homeland because she refused to be associated with orcs.

[Nymrohd]

My theory is the crystal in Hallowsfall is a Naaru heart. Yes it's massive but still. Xal wants old god blood to make crystals to make her own void lord. Succeed or fail whatever she does allows her to corrupt the Sunwell.

Does it really look different than Oshugun? It looks like a crashed dimensional ship.