The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

With what we know of the upcoming story so far, I can't see Iridikron not making it to The Last Titan. Of course the villain who wants the Titans to return and has a lair in Northrend will probably be important in the expansion where the Titans return and we go back to Northrend. I don't know if Xal'atath will make it that far (personally think that whether she lives or dies in TWW, she'll effectively win by causing the Hour of Twilight leading us into Midnight), but Iridikron seems to be set up for The Last Titan in particular.

Keep in Mind they never said when or if the Titans actually come to azeroth. Heck, "the Last Titan" title suggests if the Titans die it happens before that expansion.

[Nymrohd]

Sure, he can appear there and get more buildup. But now that we know that the Titans are actually returning, and it'll happen in the very continent where he has his lair, I can't see his story getting resolved until they do.

I mean it would not be about getting his story resolved. It would be about getting his story TOLD.

[Xilurm]

@13:27

Building richer worlds and stories today because we can foreshadow, we can plant the little seeds for things we know will make sense, as opposed to doing what seemed cool in the moment.

FINALLY! Finally they realized that MMO's in this day and age can actually tell good stories without sacrificing anything else. And that maybe the rule of cool isn't the best approach.

[Samin]

Keep in Mind they never said when or if the Titans actually come to azeroth. Heck, "the Last Titan" title suggests if the Titans die it happens before that expansion.

"...and there at Ulduar you will bear witness to the return of the Titans to Azeroth and you will uncover a vast conspiracy..." - Chris Metzen announcing The Last Titan

[Reive]

@13:27



FINALLY! Finally they realized that MMO's in this day and age can actually tell good stories without sacrificing anything else. And that maybe the rule of cool isn't the best approach.

they need to stop with this final fantasy like crap and focus on the strenghts of wow. the game was at its best when the focus wasn't on the narrative but the world as a whole.

[Worldshaper]

A theory:

• Azeroth's worldsoul was given the spark of life when a Shard of Light was flung into Azeroth (crashing into Hallowfall) in the dawn of the cosmos, and as a result of the clashing between the Light and the Void. She has both of those forces within her.
• Along with this spark of life came Life and Death to our world. Though this, Elune and the Winter Queen have a connection with Azeroth (as well as many other worlds).
• Aggramas discovered the worldsoul, and the Titans immediately realised they needed to protect it for their own ends. Sargeras, who had at that point become a slayer of worlds, wanted to destroy it. Order and Disorder were now involved as well.
• As a general point, it seems like the different pantheons of the cosmos have representatives for different kinds of forces. For example, the Old Gods seems to have an Old God of Life and Death (the 5th Old God depicted in Chronicles III), and the Titans seem that way as well. Additionally, the Titans have Aman'Thul who seems to be rather Light-oriented, etc. This is why the Dragon Aspects also draw from these types of fundamental forces. I'm not sure why or exactly how all of this works, but it's just something we can observe. Maybe the First Ones (ew) created Pantheons to be reflections of all the forces or something, IDK.

Right, so:

• Life, through Elune, figured that with the aid of World Trees, she could spread life's influence on Azeroth and perhaps even reach its core as the roots delve deep into the world. I suppose to her, life is always the endgoal, and with a worldsoul such as Azeroth on their side, this quest would only become easier. That's why she sort of manipulated (?) Eonar and Freya into planting World Trees everywhere.
• The Void wants to usher in the Void Lords from beyond the physical universe, the Twisting Nether, into our realm. They believe that Azeroth's worldsoul has the power to do that. So they sent Old Gods to access the worldsoul by burying themselves into the planet, infesting it.
• Order, or the Titans, want to control everything and turn it orderly, like an authoritarian police state. Sometimes Order can be good, but from the POV of freethinking and independent individuals, it's obviously not always the case. Anyway, they defeated the Old Gods (sort of) and imprisoned them. But they also placed the worldsoul in statis, a form of imprisonment to keep her safe and in check. See: Q'onzu's claim that stasis is a form of imprisonment that protects, Neltharion placing the Dracthyr in statis to do the same, the Dragon Aspects placing the Primal Incarnates in stasis, and of course the WoW logo featuring Azeroth with that Titan "prison" circle with runes around it.
• Death doesn't seem like it has had much of an interest in Azeroth's worldsoul, except for the Jailer and his 4D chess. Given how much he was behind, I guess you could say that's quite a lot of investment in our world. He wanted to use the worldsoul to undo creation basically, and start over with him in charge.
• The Light is still a bit of a mystery. It seems like the original force in the universe, from which all others derived at some point. It also seems kind of... good? One creation story says that existence was just a lovely sea of the Light, and there was harmony. Basically.
• Disorder, with Sargeras at the helm, wanted to destroy the worldsoul and wreak havoc across the physical universe. But at some point it almost seems like Sargeras had an apiphany, when he inside a vision was transported to Azeroth's core and the worldsoul looked upon him. He felt a great rush of joy. So I'm thinking his goals over the last few years have been to (shocker) cause disorder, and upset the other forces' plans. He wanted to burn down the World Trees to stop Life from claiming the worldsoul, and break the chains the Titans have around it. The question is just, will he be "The Last Titan", and be the one to save Azeroth's worldsoul in the end? It would parallell Illidan quite neatly. This renegade who committed horrible crimes against his people for "the greater good", and the ended up saving everybody using unorthodox methods. An antihero of sorts.

[Xilurm]

they need to stop with this final fantasy like crap and focus on the strenghts of wow. the game was at its best when the focus wasn't on the narrative but the world as a whole.

Ah so you wanna keep killing random kobolds then. Also FYI it isn't just FF that can do this. It's every game on the planet. WoW has been way behind for years.

[Reive]

Ah so you wanna keep killing random kobolds then. Also FYI it isn't just FF that can do this. It's every game on the planet. WoW has been way behind for years.

yes? as long as it's cool. i don't care about the "main" story of the game especially when the best they can come up with is the avengers ripoff. wow' strength lies in its gameplay and the charm of its world. the writers do better when they focus on smaller questlines. the main narrative is not only not for them but also overrated

[Eldryth]

Keep in Mind they never said when or if the Titans actually come to azeroth. Heck, "the Last Titan" title suggests if the Titans die it happens before that expansion.

Metzen did say that they'd be returning to Azeroth in The Last Titan. Personally, I'm expecting the title to become the case in the climax of the expansion- we'll see the Pantheon get wiped out (whether by Iridikron, us, Sargeras... hard to guess before we learn the big secrets), then we'll finally face Sargeras himself leaving Azeroth as the final Titan. Though that's pure speculation, and The Last Titan's story seems harder than most to predict since it hinges on some big reveals that we don't have yet.

I mean it would not be about getting his story resolved. It would be about getting his story TOLD.

Which would be very hard to do if he's killed off 2+ expansions before the event his story is building towards, as people were talking about. Maybe they could make it work if we stopped him shortly before the Titans arrive, but if he were crammed into a small Dragonflight raid or TWW, it'd almost certainly feel like his story was cut short.

I do wonder if he might have been originally planned as Dragonflight's final boss, and changed to a longer-term threat when Metzen came back with the Saga idea... but as of right now, Dawn of the Infinite has him set up as a The Last Titan threat.

[Xilurm]

yes? as long as it's cool. i don't care about the "main" story of the game especially when the best they can come up with is the avengers ripoff. wow' strength lies in its gameplay and the charm of its world. the writers do better when they focus on smaller questlines. the main narrative is not only not for them but also overrated

They absolutely do not. Where have you been for the last 6 years? Also, what you want is pure vanilla content. They stopped doing that after patch 1.12 lmao.

[Reive]

They absolutely do not. Where have you been for the last 6 years? Also, what you want is pure vanilla content. They stopped doing that after patch 1.12 lmao.

they do. self contained questlines are the best story content wow can offer. it's when the devs try to follow a long main storyline that things fall apart. they don't know how to make characters act in a realistic way and they also don't know how to balance build ups and payoffs.

[Xilurm]

they do. self contained questlines are the best story content wow can offer. it's when the devs try to follow a long main storyline that things fall apart. they don't know how to make characters act in a realistic way and they also don't know how to balance build ups and payoffs.

Which is why they're spreading this over 3 expansions.

[Reive]

Which is why they're spreading this over 3 expansions.

won't really change much. the quality of the dialogues and the consistency with the established lore are the main issue. spreading the story in 3 expansions won't save us from cutscenes like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpGy...hannel=Wowhead lmao

[Revamp Man]

So
Since nobody got a correct leak there's a theory that blizz was behind a couple to throw people off.

Also they apparently have some things out as pure misinformation to see who they invite inside are leaking information soo that's fun

On topic:
Now that the story is set to last 3 expansions I doubt we will get character whiplash like wrathion in 8.3 to 10.0

[Polybius]

they need to stop with this final fantasy like crap and focus on the strenghts of wow. the game was at its best when the focus wasn't on the narrative but the world as a whole.

I’d be up for smaller stories in the form of a revamp. But story absolutely matters even if just a little. We all so how badly Shadowlands went with the attempts to destroy its identity.

- - - Updated - - -

So
Since nobody got a correct leak there's a theory that blizz was behind a couple to throw people off.

Also they apparently have some things out as pure misinformation to see who they invite inside are leaking information soo that's fun

On topic:
Now that the story is set to last 3 expansions I doubt we will get character whiplash like wrathion in 8.3 to 10.0

Some of them were presumably hints for all 3. But this is a strategy they can use to out leakers. We’ve seen examples of this in the past with WoW devs. In other media with MCU and DbD leakers, and the firings that come after. Sony’s leaks were glorious.

[Ersula]

they need to stop with this final fantasy like crap and focus on the strenghts of wow. the game was at its best when the focus wasn't on the narrative but the world as a whole.

The world soul stuff (primarily because its extremely similar to FFXIV's story) is probably my least favorite motif in wow lore. Considering Metzen is back & one-third of the original rts games takes place on another planet, I'm hoping we leave Azeroth for a while. The Warcraft story is as much about Azeroth as it is about two cultures from two different planets coming into conflict.

“We have essentially the makings of two expansion teams and a live team. The live team handles content patches for World of Warcraft, which typically arrive every couple of months, while the other two teams are working on the next two expansions, which they refer to as 11 and 12."

“We’re doing things right now on 12 that under normal timeframe we would not be doing,” Hight said.

People are saying this means a faster expansion cadence...but 14.0 would be coming out in 2030 under a normal expansion cadence. (11.0 in 2024, 12.0 in 2026, 13.0 in 2028) Instead they're insinuating the content will be bigger (revamp of the old world) So I guess my question is, why are wowhead's speculation posts so stupid? WoW expansions last 2 years on average, not 3.

Which is why they're spreading this over 3 expansions.

It's crazy to say 2 years isn't long enough to tell an epic story. I get why they feel that way but it's 100% false. N'zoth was a waste in BFA not because they didn't have enough time, it's because they just don't know how to end a story. And the answer is you have to go smaller before you go bigger. They have to learn to do a small story before they do a big story & they aren't good at writing a small story.

So
Since nobody got a correct leak there's a theory that blizz was behind a couple to throw people off.

Also they apparently have some things out as pure misinformation to see who they invite inside are leaking information soo that's fun

It's more like they had barely nothing to show that there wasn't a leak. The Shadowlands and Dragonflight leaks came from supplemental material: They didn't do any of that for TWW. All they had to show was a logo and a Powerpoint presentation. That's pretty hard to leak.

And I don't think Blizzard was behind any of the leaks because all the leaks were more ambitious than what is planned. A fake leak isn't going to sound cooler than what they are actually doing.

[Hitei]

And I don't think Blizzard was behind any of the leaks because all the leaks were more ambitious than what is planned. A fake leak isn't going to sound cooler than what they are actually doing.

"Omg what if der was Cata 2!!!"
"Lordaeron!!! and there are like scarlet crusaders?!!!!"

Wow, so aMbItiOuS.

[Scyth]

I mean it would not be about getting his story resolved. It would be about getting his story TOLD.

Yeah I agree. I do hope he shows up a few times before the last titan xpac. Would feel awful if he is non-existent for 2 expansions and then shows up all of a sudden.

I bet we will see more of him and Xal in these next few patches leading up to TWW.

[Telogrus]

That's why I'm a little bummed the Incarnates didn't cause another sundering-like event. They could have just redrawn the maps entirely. The Original Azeroth is a completely unknown geography considering the Titans were just scooping up landmasses & hiding them in pocket dimensions. Knowing that I was expecting Vyranoth to unlock the elemental planes, helheim, Thros, etc. the same way the Dragon Isles were.

Fr, the Incarnates not breaking the barriers between the Elemental Planes and Azeroth is such a missed opportunity. With how hard Blizz has been trying to push the narrative that the Ordering of Azeroth is a bad thing, you’d think that the Primal Incarnates main goal would be to undo the creation of the Elemental Planes (which is probably the greatest change that the Titans imposed on Azeroth).

I wish that Vyranoth allied with the Aspects against Fyrakk purely out of convenience, and then betrayed them afterwards

[Vakir]

"Omg what if der was Cata 2!!!"
"Lordaeron!!! and there are like scarlet crusaders?!!!!"

Wow, so aMbItiOuS.

"Cata 2" would be ambitious depending what one means by that. Not so much in the sense if it was literally another calamity event that overtook every narrative thread on the way.

Redoing every single zone and every single quest area updated for the time skip IS ambitious if they were to do so with a lot of smaller, contained stories with a sense of continuity and meaning. But it would make far, far more sense to do that in 14.0 if this is truly some kind of broader story roadmap with a setup for "the next 20 years" after.