The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xilurm]

It is pretty weird that they want to settle on the Dragon Isles when so much of Northern Kalimdor belongs to them.

[Sondrelk]

It is pretty weird that they want to settle on the Dragon Isles when so much of Northern Kalimdor belongs to them.

I just love how it subtly reinforces the idea that Nelves will never be safe against the villainous Horde so long as they stay on Kalimdor.
It is definitely not the idea Blizzard was aiming for, but that is how it comes across.

[Daniri]

But Nordrassil was already always in the hands of the night elves. The whole "we need to search for a new home now that Teldrassil is gone" arc wouldn't make sense if they just ended up in Hyjal again, because they never left Hyjal.

Of course they left Hyjal. Just because they technically controlled it if you drew up a political map doesn't mean it was their home. It would have made perfect sense to make a big deal about having the night elves en masse return there.

[Polybius]

I think Sylvanas 100% has a chance of dying if she comes back to help Quel'thalas. 200% if she has to stop a corrupted Alleria.

While her being in penance for all her suffering makes sense as a worthy fate, it also makes sense for her to earn her final rest defending Quel'thalas again.

Though, they may just give Sylvanas's role to Vereesa so that Sylvanas can be held to her (seemingly eternal) job of saving souls in the Maw. Also Vereesa definitely needs some spotlight.

I just remembered they have a brother…

Did they even bother mentioning him in SL?

[Cheezits]

I think the reason they avoided Hyjal, besides not wanting to touch Kalimdor for years for whatever reason, is because it's technically a neutral zone for druids and they probably want to keep it that way.

[Khaza-R]

I am interested to see how they handle Night Elves presence in Kalimdor post Amirdrassil.

I have an unfortunate feeling its going to lead to storyline where the Horde/Orcs suddenly becomes defenders of nature and says they'll protect Hyjal. Further washing out any flavor to the game and increasing the genericness of the franchise.

I just remembered they have a brother…

Did they even bother mentioning him in SL?

He gets briefly mentioned after Sylvanas's judgement in a convo between Veressa and Alleria :

Vereesa: You're right, Lady Sun. Our family has endured so much darkness. We must find a way to cling to hope.
Alleria: Yes, Little Moon. Mother, Father, Lirath... they are only memories. We thought our sister was as well. But now... we shall see.

[Cheezits]

Honestly just watch Kalimdor get fucking destroyed when Sargeras/???? takes the sword out or when Azeroth wakes up. That would explain why they are loathe to update a single part of it.

[Khaza-R]

Honestly just watch Kalimdor get fucking destroyed when Sargeras/???? takes the sword out or when Azeroth wakes up. That would explain why they are loathe to update a single part of it.

I think there's a good chance either way that Azeroth gets refaced after the events of TLT

[Cheezits]

The Gilneas Questline got leaked to be about both Worgen and Forsaken clearing Scarlets out of Gilneas

https://x.com/portergauge/status/172...199879286?s=46

[Nymrohd]

The Gilneas Questline got leaked to be about both Worgen and Forsaken clearing Scarlets out of Gilneas

https://x.com/portergauge/status/172...199879286?s=46

Oh lol. I am sure people will be very happy about it.


Also, once again, half the story for the worgen is hidden in Forsaken content! (their heritage quest would pretty much be a prequel to this. Makes sense why Danuser kept talking about reclaiming Gilneas, it is a Forsaken story

Also should this be on spoilers? Maybe this needs to be shown to multiple people so the community can react.

[Murlocos]

I think the best antagonist choice would have been a contingent of Sylvanas loyalists breaking off and declaring independence from the Forsaken in Gilneas, but it'll depend on the execution in the end. If it's just a reversal of the 9.2.5 Lordaeron questline where Horde players are in disguise so they can see a questline that gives Greymane and the Gilneans real closure and focus, that's fine. I'll be less confident if the Forsaken are getting equal billing and/or the storyline is largely just "Scarlets bad" again without much else going on, but we'll see.

[Nymrohd]

I think the best antagonist choice would have been a contingent of Sylvanas loyalists breaking off and declaring independence from the Forsaken in Gilneas, but it'll depend on the execution in the end. If it's just a reversal of the 9.2.5 Lordaeron questline where Horde players are in disguise so they can see a questline that gives Greymane and the Gilneans real closure and focus, that's fine. I'll be less confident if the Forsaken are getting equal billing and/or the storyline is largely just "Scarlets bad" again without much else going on, but we'll see.

Yup, using Sylvanas loyalists would work. And the Horde could have had a questline about hunting them down and then the two quests would converge.

I just don't buy the Scarlet Crusade as a major threat. I don't even understand how they still exist.

[Murlocos]

Yup, using Sylvanas loyalists would work. And the Horde could have had a questline about hunting them down and then the two quests would converge.

I just don't buy the Scarlet Crusade as a major threat. I don't even understand how they still exist.

Scarlets hit goofball territory for me back in MoP even if it was in a contextless dungeon update, but I think a storyline of their resurgence could work. Emphasis on could, because my interpretation of it would revolve around a lot of headcanon that doesn't line up with the direction the story is going. Namely, much more intra-faction conflict and faction leaders not being universally loved by their people (I think they did a decent job of this with the Druids of the Flame in 10.2 FWIW).

They're a very safe antagonist to dredge up, everyone hates them. The possible downside of that is that they may water down the plot they're in because they're sort of throwaway.

[Worldshaper]

I think the reason they avoided Hyjal, besides not wanting to touch Kalimdor for years for whatever reason, is because it's technically a neutral zone for druids and they probably want to keep it that way.

And the Emerald Dream isn't?

[Nymrohd]

They're a very safe antagonist to dredge up, everyone hates them. The possible downside of that is that they may water down the plot they're in because they're sort of throwaway.

The issue is, they make no sense. The original Scarlet Crusade was not even an antagonist. They were HEROES. Every race in Lordaeron worked with them and they sacrificed themselves against insurmountable odds to save innocents. Sure they got corrupted by a dreadlord and went through a dark path but they should have recovered by now and rejoined the Argent Dawn to create a multiracial organization of Lordaeron natives trying to reclaim their land.

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And the Emerald Dream isn't?

Honestly given that the Horde has the full support of the Loa, allowing the Night Elves to call on the Ancients and get some exclusivity with them work. Tauren druids could just work with Malorne

[Ersula]

The Gilneas Questline got leaked to be about both Worgen and Forsaken clearing Scarlets out of Gilneas

https://x.com/portergauge/status/172...199879286?s=46

Nothing you can glean from this suggests the Worgen & Forsaken are working together: Just that the Scarlets are enemies of both of them. It's a new story development but it's to be expected the anti-undead paladin order that was kicked out of the Silver Hand for being too racist also dislikes werewolves.

The issue is, they make no sense. The original Scarlet Crusade was not even an antagonist. They were HEROES. Every race in Lordaeron worked with them and they sacrificed themselves against insurmountable odds to save innocents. Sure they got corrupted by a dreadlord and went through a dark path but they should have recovered by now and rejoined the Argent Dawn to create a multiracial organization of Lordaeron natives trying to reclaim their land.

In their vanilla backstory: The split from the Silver Hand was caused by the Alliance consorting with other religions, namely, Elunites. Combine that with the fact they murdered Tirion's son upon their introduction to the story, the Scarlet Crusade was always portrayed as a sect of extremists. So of course they would hate Worgen.

[Murlocos]

The issue is, they make no sense. The original Scarlet Crusade was not even an antagonist. They were HEROES. Every race in Lordaeron worked with them and they sacrificed themselves against insurmountable odds to save innocents. Sure they got corrupted by a dreadlord and went through a dark path but they should have recovered by now and rejoined the Argent Dawn to create a multiracial organization of Lordaeron natives trying to reclaim their land.

I see the Scarlet Crusade of old as extinct by this point. That juicy drama of who should hold Lordaeron between the living and the undead is an endless goldmine for strife that's fueled countless arguments on the Story forums and elsewhere. Enough time has passed you could have descendants of the original refugees that want their ancestral land back but are frustrated by the neutrality of the Argents and the unwillingness of the Alliance to start another war over it that they reform under a familiar banner.

It's all in the implementation ultimately, but I'm willing to give it a chance. I think recognizing there's more autonomy to the nations beneath both factions and giving them points of strife and tension both between one another and amongst themselves is more compelling than swinging between a pendulum of "genocidal war to the death kill as many enemy civilians as possible" and "best friends for life, descend as a homogeneous deathball on Latest Cosmic Force or any group that threatens Peace™". People argued about the legitimacy of the ownership of Lordaeron for years and years for a reason.

[Super Dickmann]

I'm just saying, they could have gotten just the same amount of story content even if they just stuck with Nordrassil. It seems weird and convoluted to have two world trees competing for the top spot.

Entirely agreed, that's my point. It'd make far more narrative sense to not restore Nordrassil and not bring back Cenarius, which both undermine the ending of WC3 to zero return since both end up being neutral props instead of enjoyed exclusively by the night elves they're made for anyway and instead stagger it out so that if you do this new tree story, it and its corresponding zone overlap with Hyjal and signify a return and restoration to that WC3 state. At present, Nordrassil is already downplayed and unfit for purpose and the new tree and zone redundant.

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The issue is, they make no sense. The original Scarlet Crusade was not even an antagonist. They were HEROES. Every race in Lordaeron worked with them and they sacrificed themselves against insurmountable odds to save innocents. Sure they got corrupted by a dreadlord and went through a dark path but they should have recovered by now and rejoined the Argent Dawn to create a multiracial organization of Lordaeron natives trying to reclaim their land.

They were introduced into the game as antagonists, primarily for the Forsaken. Their on-screen membership consisted exclusively of Lordaeron humans, with all other elements being backgrond information on plaques, who wanted to reclaim their land and kill the undead, which was also the only group to have an actual stake in their goal, compared to the nonsensical multiracial hodgepodge of the Argents. The Lordaeronian cause is human, be that human living or dead, every other race has no investment or reason to be involved in it and only serves to water it down with the transparent illogic of a night elf or orc being not only incredibly invested in restoring a kingdom and culture they've zero association with, but to do so while dressing up as a human paladin archetype.

Their role as world antagonists here is most of all cheap and weak. Yes, you can have the Scarlet oppose Gilneas due to the kingdom standing by while Lordaeron was taken over by the undead and then later during the wars with the Forsaken, but that line is secondary to their main goal. The main Scarlet conflict is with the undead and the main Gilnean conflict is with the Forsaken, as both lost their land to undead. Sylvanas shot Liam and gassed their land, I as the Forsaken player helped crush the Gilnean counter-attack at Silverpine, no Scarlets took part in it, no worgen in-game or worgen player out of game associates these things with the Scarlet. The only meaningful Gilneas reclamation is an Alliance-Horde conflict, specifically worgen vs. Forsaken. A Forsaken-Worgen team-up against tertiary strawmen is safe, boring and hollow.

[huth]

The issue is, they make no sense. The original Scarlet Crusade was not even an antagonist. They were HEROES. Every race in Lordaeron worked with them and they sacrificed themselves against insurmountable odds to save innocents. Sure they got corrupted by a dreadlord and went through a dark path but they should have recovered by now and rejoined the Argent Dawn to create a multiracial organization of Lordaeron natives trying to reclaim their land.

The hell are you talking about? History is full of groups like this. It starts with a few extremists, then more and more of the levelheaded people leave until only extremists remain. They generally never recover.

[Ersula]

I just don't buy the Scarlet Crusade as a major threat. I don't even understand how they still exist.

It all boils down to land. Who wants to bet Gallywix already sold the building/resource rights before he got kicked out of the Horde?