The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Jaggler]

Does it have to be reciprocal? Don't get me wrong, it should be over the long term. But this is more about making the faction specific events as equivalent as possible.

I'm not saying it has to be mirrored 1:1. it's fine, if one faction gets a bit more attention, that's fine now and then. But 10.2 has loads of Alliance, then we get the Reclaiming Gilneas stuff, and TWW is also chock ful of Alliance motifs with Dwarves and the Humans in Hallowfall

The Baine questline in DF at least. SL had loads of Forsaken stuff through Sylvanas.

That's like saying The Burning of Teldrassil was Night Elf content. i know very few people who enjoyed that.

Should I thank the Horde for this?

They burn and kill night elves with a smile in 4K cinematic. We forgive everyone and grew a tree in a place where we will never return.

The Horde has a whole story about how they destroy Gilneas online. We are bringing back Guinness with the blessing of the Horde and their help. But instead of killing the undead who destroyed the kingdom, we kill other humans.

Sorry, but this feels like a throw bone.

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I would advise you to read it again and chill out a bit.

[Nymrohd]

I'm not saying it has to be mirrored 1:1. it's fine, if one faction gets a bit more attention, that's fine now and then. But 10.2 has loads of Alliance, then we get the Reclaiming Gilneas stuff, and TWW is also chock ful of Alliance motifs with Dwarves and the Humans in Hallowfall



That's like saying The Burning of Teldrassil was Night Elf content. i know very few people who enjoyed that.



You seem to have misunderstood my post. I would advise you to read it again and chill out a bit.

Who are you quoting after me?

[Jaggler]

Who are you quoting after me?

The guys who posted after you.

[Khaza-R]

Why are people losing their shit over "Nooooo, Forsaken are part of the Gilneas Reclamation RARRGHHH!!"" when we literally do not know if that is the case?

wtf is going on here? Are people once again making up a scenario in their head to get upset over?

Because the scenario says report to Calia in Silverpine or Genn in SW to start the scenario. So they are most definitely involved. Seems like the Alliance and Horde will have slightly different intros but the rest of the scenario will be the same.

[Sondrelk]

That's like saying The Burning of Teldrassil was Night Elf content. i know very few people who enjoyed that.

Enjoyment is not guaranteed when the content is made specifically for a race or class. Both the Orc and Worgen heritage questline was designed specifically for players who enjoy and play those races, and only one was held up as an example of great writing.

The Baine Questline was very clearly a Tauren themed questline primarily designed for those who want Tauren content. Just as the post raid questline in 10.2 is themed heavily around the Night Elves and those who want a resolution ot that storyline.

The Night Elves might have been heavily built up in this patch, but so were the Forsaken after the Sepulcher in SL.
Has Nelves gotten a bit too much focus recently? Maybe. But you have to look at this with a broader perspective. And what race gets hevy focus, and what faction is being catered to can change hevily from patch to patch, and focusing on just a single one can give the impression the writers are going from one extreme to the next, rather than pacing stories out over a longer timespan rather than give every race a single quest each patch that does nothing.

[Jaggler]

Enjoyment is not guaranteed when the content is made specifically for a race or class. Both the Orc and Worgen heritage questline was designed specifically for players who enjoy and play those races, and only one was held up as an example of great writing.

The Baine Questline was very clearly a Tauren themed questline primarily designed for those who want Tauren content. Just as the post raid questline in 10.2 is themed heavily around the Night Elves and those who want a resolution ot that storyline.

The Night Elves might have been heavily built up in this patch, but so were the Forsaken after the Sepulcher in SL.
Has Nelves gotten a bit too much focus recently? Maybe. But you have to look at this with a broader perspective. And what race gets hevy focus, and what faction is being catered to can change hevily from patch to patch, and focusing on just a single one can give the impression the writers are going from one extreme to the next, rather than pacing stories out over a longer timespan rather than give every race a single quest each patch that does nothing.

I understand that, but you can't really compare the Baine questline to the Nelf content. I´am not looking just at this one patch, that's why i am saying what i am saying

[Xilurm]

The burning of Teldrassil wasn't made for a specific race in mind, it was made for the Horde. That was supposed to be a "win" for the Horde faction and players.

- - - Updated - - -

Portal slots for Amirdrassil and Gilneas?

Spoiler: 

[Murlocos]

I'm not saying it has to be mirrored 1:1. it's fine, if one faction gets a bit more attention, that's fine now and then. But 10.2 has loads of Alliance, then we get the Reclaiming Gilneas stuff, and TWW is also chock ful of Alliance motifs with Dwarves and the Humans in Hallowfall

That's the frustrating part, as my belief is that both factions aren't being served particularly well right now (though the patterns stretch back quite a while), but for different reasons.

The main narrative has had a tendency to be very focused on Alliance characters and races, but when the factions are explicitly in focus, that usually flips and the Horde becomes the main characters while the Alliance are completely reactionary to them. This has twice manifested as the Horde doing something extremely evil/stupid then self-flagellating for a year while the Alliance are perpetual victims that can never answer in kind. It doesn't feel great for either side.

This isn't helped by the fact that the few bits of faction-exclusive content we've gotten lately, the heritage questlines, would be difficult to argue that the Horde ones haven't gotten more love than the Alliance. It's become a perfect mixed bag where both sides are technically being delivered what they want, but it's coming with caveats and asterisks. Ideally, the reclamation of Gilneas would be an Alliance-only questline and the Horde would get their own equivalent, and the Horde really just needs more representation in the main storyline.

That's the risk of going neutral with everything: not all questlines make sense to be that way and can be compromised by adhering to it, and you may dilute your setting further if you don't replace that light politicking and tension with something else. I'm hoping that they'll do such a long anticipated event the justice it deserves and it doesn't just feel like another sidequest.

[Sondrelk]

That's the frustrating part, as my belief is that both factions aren't being served particularly well right now (though the patterns stretch back quite a while), but for different reasons.

The main narrative has had a tendency to be very focused on Alliance characters and races, but when the factions are explicitly in focus, that usually flips and the Horde becomes the main characters while the Alliance are completely reactionary to them. This has twice manifested as the Horde doing something extremely evil/stupid then self-flagellating for a year while the Alliance are perpetual victims that can never answer in kind. It doesn't feel great for either side.

This isn't helped by the fact that the few bits of faction-exclusive content we've gotten lately, the heritage questlines, would be difficult to argue that the Horde ones haven't gotten more love than the Alliance. It's become a perfect mixed bag where both sides are technically being delivered what they want, but it's coming with caveats and asterisks. Ideally, the reclamation of Gilneas would be an Alliance-only questline and the Horde would get their own equivalent, and the Horde really just needs more representation in the main storyline.

That's the risk of going neutral with everything: not all questlines make sense to be that way and can be compromised by adhering to it, and you may dilute your setting further if you don't replace that light politicking and tension with something else. I'm hoping that they'll do such a long anticipated event the justice it deserves and it doesn't just feel like another sidequest.

The Gilneas reclamation questline is hard to judge I think precisely because it's such long wait since Cataclysm. The Night Elves in 10.2 and the Forsaken in 9.2.5 or whenever it was is easier to compare to eachother in that regard. One got basically everything it wanted earlier, but in a small questline. The other got all the narrative heft, but very little of what they wanted in terms of outcome, also got it an expansion later.

Do you mark the Gilneas questline as long overdue, or something that came at the perfect time? Do you count the Nelves as having gotten a good questline when many would probably have preferred something like the Forsaken questline, where the Nelves firmly reestablish a new city at Hyjal. Or for that matter count the Sanctum of Domination and Sepulcher in Shadowlands to be the same as Amirdrassil focusing more on the Nelves?

Honestly at this point, I think it's fair to say that there was no way to truly make everyone happy with the story we currently got. Having the Nelves be important was a given when the Emerald Dream was announced, and the Gilneas reclamation questline has been so long overdue it is basically a meme at this point.

[Jaggler]

The Gilneas reclamation questline is hard to judge I think precisely because it's such long wait since Cataclysm. The Night Elves in 10.2 and the Forsaken in 9.2.5 or whenever it was is easier to compare to eachother in that regard. One got basically everything it wanted earlier, but in a small questline. The other got all the narrative heft, but very little of what they wanted in terms of outcome, also got it an expansion later.

Do you mark the Gilneas questline as long overdue, or something that came at the perfect time? Do you count the Nelves as having gotten a good questline when many would probably have preferred something like the Forsaken questline, where the Nelves firmly reestablish a new city at Hyjal. Or for that matter count the Sanctum of Domination and Sepulcher in Shadowlands to be the same as Amirdrassil focusing more on the Nelves?

Honestly at this point, I think it's fair to say that there was no way to truly make everyone happy with the story we currently got. Having the Nelves be important was a given when the Emerald Dream was announced, and the Gilneas reclamation questline has been so long overdue it is basically a meme at this point.

Wow is so big, you will never be able to make everyone happy. that is also not the point. I don't really get what Sanctum of Domination or Sepulcher has to do with the Night Elves to be honest, or why it is brought up. Is it because of Sylvanas? Because nothing about Sepulvher for example has anything to do with the Forsaken as a race or the Horde as a faction. You could argue, as a race the Night Elves had also a lot of development during Shadowlands. It's not like they were completely gone from the story for ages.

[Nymrohd]

Wow is so big, you will never be able to make everyone happy. that is also not the point. I don't really get what Sanctum of Domination or Sepulcher has to do with the Night Elves to be honest, or why it is brought up. Is it because of Sylvanas? Because nothing about Sepulvher for example has anything to do with the Forsaken as a race or the Horde as a faction. You could argue, as a race the Night Elves had also a lot of development during Shadowlands. It's not like they were completely gone from the story for ages.

Honestly the Night Elves have gotten the constant attention of Blizzard. They were the punching bag for Classic to Cataclysm and the novels between, then since BfA they have been in focus constantly. Focus they'd rather not have had. Which doesn't help the Horde players in any way who are forced to play a completely Night Elf-centric story in Ardenweald and then having it be a part of DF from launch till now. This is the issue, this story is pleasing no one. But at least the DF version is not offensive.

[Cheezits]

They are done with faction conflict, even small fights, if Scarlets in Gilneas is the road they are taking. It's done.

[Jaggler]

They are done with faction conflict, even small fights, if Scarlets in Gilneas is the road they are taking. It's done.

Good.

It barely brought anything good to the table.

[Nymrohd]

Good.

It barely brought anything good to the table.

That is very much your opinion. Much of my engagement with Warcraft has been on how the races interact with each other through the scope of conflict.
I understand they ruined it, but for me the IP will always be worse for no longer having a focus on conflict between playable factions.

[Jaggler]

That is very much your opinion. Much of my engagement with Warcraft has been on how the races interact with each other through the scope of conflict.
I understand they ruined it, but for me the IP will always be worse for no longer having a focus on conflict between playable factions.

In a perfect world i would agree, but i just don't feel like any of the instances where they have tried faction conflict really worked well. One side was the idiotic victim, the other side the idiotic villain, in the end both sides were idiots. In my opinion of course.

[Daniri]

In a perfect world i would agree, but i just don't feel like any of the instances where they have tried faction conflict really worked well. One side was the idiotic victim, the other side the idiotic villain, in the end both sides were idiots. In my opinion of course.

What stories that Blizzard tells in WoW do you think work well?

[Murlocos]

The Gilneas reclamation questline is hard to judge I think precisely because it's such long wait since Cataclysm. The Night Elves in 10.2 and the Forsaken in 9.2.5 or whenever it was is easier to compare to eachother in that regard. One got basically everything it wanted earlier, but in a small questline. The other got all the narrative heft, but very little of what they wanted in terms of outcome, also got it an expansion later.

Do you mark the Gilneas questline as long overdue, or something that came at the perfect time? Do you count the Nelves as having gotten a good questline when many would probably have preferred something like the Forsaken questline, where the Nelves firmly reestablish a new city at Hyjal. Or for that matter count the Sanctum of Domination and Sepulcher in Shadowlands to be the same as Amirdrassil focusing more on the Nelves?

Honestly at this point, I think it's fair to say that there was no way to truly make everyone happy with the story we currently got. Having the Nelves be important was a given when the Emerald Dream was announced, and the Gilneas reclamation questline has been so long overdue it is basically a meme at this point.

It's impossible to please everyone as always, but it all depends on how this plays out. If it's a scenario where the Horde involvement is just putting on a worgen costume so they can play the questline but it's otherwise all about Gilneas and worgen, I'm fine with that. Is it great for Horde players? Of course not, but if it's going to be available to both factions, that's as good as we'll get.

If it's a Gilnean-Forsaken team-up just about killing Scarlets that just happens to have Gilneas as the location, and half the story is Genn looking directly at the camera and going "Wow, the Forsaken sure are great now! We couldn't have done it without them!", that'll be a complete bust and they might as well amend the social contract to include a section where you agree that the Forsaken are totally redeemed and the greatest people on Azeroth, because someone on the team has really been trying.

And of course, the actual outcome of the questline is going to impact the overall reception. There'll be a world of difference between Gilneas City being totally reclaimed and populated, and nothing changing at all in-game but Blizzard can now say that Gilneas is reclaimed in interviews.

[Nymrohd]

OK
https://www.wowhead.com/news/trading...2-5-ptr-336218
that peacock mount? so much glam. I could never. I want to walk into the AH when it is converted into a disco riding in that mount.

Also that Quel'serrar model, you know you want to build a mog around it.

[Merryck]

What stories that Blizzard tells in WoW do you think work well?

Suramar is the best story they've told, and it was ruined by the faction conflict in the end. Alliance characters get to know and befriend these characters, and in the next expansion we're killing them. Nightborne should be a neutral race.

[Nymrohd]

Suramar is the best story they've told, and it was ruined by the faction conflict in the end. Alliance characters get to know and befriend these characters, and in the next expansion we're killing them. Nightborne should be a neutral race.

See when it happened I felt it was so easy to solve by just "Show, don't tell"
At the end of the raid when you get the raid quest that takes Thalyssra to the Nightwell, Tyrande shows up with a full squad of Sentinels announcing that she is here to destroy the Nightwell. Thalyssra protests, Liadrin shows up and throws a Light barrier and together they expel Tyrande.

Would it be out of character for anyone in that scenario? Nope. Would it have made everything after it make sense? Absolutely. Maybe 3 mins of voice lines that would have to be recorded and it wouldn't even need to be a cinematic.