The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Daniri]

The thing about playing a "minority" of a class is that it's hard to maintain that sense of identity. The transmog options are extremely limited, the visuals of abilities fight against your imagination, you're roped into class quests/class halls that treats you like the archetype. For my planned orc paladin I'm just going to lean into it for once, and the Tyr's Guard is as good a universal option as I could hope for.

By the way: the people cheering on the removal of faction conflict are responsible for this homogenization, and it's only going to continue to get worse.

[huth]

IIRC they said that the original plan was for the copy of Tyr's consciousness or whatever to be put into a replica body, then Metzen suggested to just bring the original Tyr back.

They did put the copy of Tyr's conciousness into his replica body.

Which is confusing. Tyr is the only throughline through the entire expansion. Fyrakk & the world tree certainly aren't central figures in the expansion.

Careful you don't pull a muscle, Armstrong.

[Merryck]

The Tyr quests started making me roll my eyes when the blood elf spouts some nonsense like "I support Order because Quel'thalas fell to Disorder, go Team Order!" (I swear this is not that off from the actual text) and it never gave me a reason to stop rolling them all the way to now. I think the actual writing itself is some of the worst in the expansion with how stiff and bland it is.

Not only is the questline itself a perfect highlight of DF's wild consistency issues, but it's baffling that we're getting paladins for everyone handled so terribly here in the same expansion that we got orc priests. An instance where we initially were getting green humans, then complaints to that were promptly acknowledged and we ended up getting brand new lore that felt cohesive and unique to orcs. I'm going to guess that the person who handled the orc heritage questline stepped in to correct that, and unfortunately I believe they're no longer with Blizzard.

Just baffling to me how this stuff passes, like the quest designers are operating alone with no underlying vision or intent. I'm still not entirely sold on this faster content cycle if it means we're going to see stuff like total homogenization of faiths because that's a lot easier and faster for a quest designer to write in a hurry than putting in the effort to diversify Azeroth's cultures.



IIRC they said that the original plan was for the copy of Tyr's consciousness or whatever to be put into a replica body, then Metzen suggested to just bring the original Tyr back.

What is the lore behind Orc Priests? I've always thought the Shadowmoon clan are interesting, is it vestiges of that culture?

[arandomuser]

so with dynamic flying being the norm forever and dynamic ground mount datamined,
what do you think they will do if anything to keep ground mounts relevant? otherwise ground mounts will be totally pointless outside instanced content,

[Jaggler]

What is the lore behind Orc Priests? I've always thought the Shadowmoon clan are interesting, is it vestiges of that culture?

It's actually rather interesting.

Lok'osh

All while acknolwedging their murder hoboing.
It was so weird having Nolaki justify killing the guards or how Valunei gets sentimental about it, only for nobody to give a shit and just continue.

Murder is ok, when you feel kinda bad afterwards.

Like, i wasn't mad at the whole ending cinematic of the raid etc. but jfc this quest and the Tyr's Guard in general is one of the worst things that ever graced this game.

[Nymrohd]

Did we just get an updated for the 10.2.5 ptr?

[Merryck]

It's actually rather interesting.

Lok'osh




Murder is ok, when you feel kinda bad afterwards.

Like, i wasn't mad at the whole ending cinematic of the raid etc. but jfc this quest and the Tyr's Guard is one of the worst things that ever graced this game.

That's interesting. It reminds me of that occult saying, "as above, so below; as within, so without." It also kind of reminds me of Velen's final words "Life is the Light, and the Light is Life. They may be exchanged, but nothing is ever lost." It's strange because, at least according to the Shadowlands cosmology chart, Light was more so sided with Death. I guess the Titans' chronicles scores another point, and Shadowlands is discredited even further.

[Ersula]

That's interesting. It reminds me of that occult saying, "as above, so below; as within, so without." It also kind of reminds me of Velen's final words "Life is the Light, and the Light is Life. They may be exchanged, but nothing is ever lost." It's strange because, at least according to the Shadowlands cosmology chart, Light was more so sided with Death. I guess the Titans' chronicles scores another point, and Shadowlands is discredited even further.

The Orcs have always believed in a kind of spiritual animism & its actually backed up in Shadowlands: In orc culture, your spirit literally travels with your weapon: That's why Varian & Saurfang appear after the anduin fight; their souls are literally inside Shalamayne because they were wielding it when they both died. And it's implied Durotan's is inside Thrall's weapon. That's why he never appears in the traditional way. They only really die when that weapon is destroyed. I guess its kind of like a Phylactery in that way.

[FossilFree]

so with dynamic flying being the norm forever and dynamic ground mount datamined,
what do you think they will do if anything to keep ground mounts relevant? otherwise ground mounts will be totally pointless outside instanced content,

I'd like to see "dynamic riding" now. Your ground mount has a stamina bar, a sprint ability that drains stamina, a long jump that is at least 2x the normal jump, a hind leg kick that shoots chasing enemies far back, etc. Going uphill would slow you down, making you want to use your sprint but that drains stamina. Going downhill would regain stamina and abilities become free to use at high speeds, but go too fast and you crash, losing all speed and stamina and making you walk till it's regained. Stuff like that.

[Cheezits]

I really don't think the devs intended for the water thing to be a problem with the fans. It's just a bit of worldbuilding that shows the Titans doing a questionable thing for the good(?) of one of their thrall races.

Not everything in a fantasy setting should adhere to real world cultural/moral values.

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IIRC they said that the original plan was for the copy of Tyr's consciousness or whatever to be put into a replica body, then Metzen suggested to just bring the original Tyr back.

This made me think the original plotline would involve a twist with the Dragons thinking that Tyr would be amiable to them when he comes back, but because he's not "Their Tyr" he would act differently than expected. Metzen thought that bringing back Their Tyr would have a better storyline (likely tying into Worldsoul Saga) at the expense of the story being boring in Dragonflight.

I do think the "Oathstones bringing their power back" storyline was always a swerve and a red herring from the start.

[huth]

This made me think the original plotline would involve a twist with the Dragons thinking that Tyr would be amiable to them when he comes back, but because he's not "Their Tyr" he would act differently than expected. Metzen thought that bringing back Their Tyr would have a better storyline (likely tying into Worldsoul Saga) at the expense of the story being boring in Dragonflight.

I do think the "Oathstones bringing their power back" storyline was always a swerve and a red herring from the start.

I doubt it. I think it's far more likely people read way to much into the whole laboratory thing back in 10.0 and got vastly unrealistic expectations of what the story was going to be. There was never going to be an evil or even antagonistic Tyr outside of Dawn.

[Cheezits]

I doubt it. I think it's far more likely people read way to much into the whole laboratory thing back in 10.0 and got vastly unrealistic expectations of what the story was going to be. There was never going to be an evil or even antagonistic Tyr outside of Dawn.

Then what was the point of the laboratory at all?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Then what was the point of the laboratory at all?

I personally think there was a shift in plans and they threw away the idea of the titans doing any thing shady with dragons.

But beyond that the point could have just been to show Tyr’s work area and what he was thinking up like we have for all the other keepers as well as showing he was experimenting with the idea of aspects before the dawn novel.

[Nymrohd]

Then what was the point of the laboratory at all?

Tyr observed what was naturally happening to proto dragons and used the process to prototype Order infusion. That was it.

[ChairmanKaga]

Christ, that questline felt really really rushed.



All while acknolwedging their murder hoboing.
It was so weird having Nolaki justify killing the guards or how Valunei gets sentimental about it, only for nobody to give a shit and just continue.

Paladin ethics stop at your own timeline/universe.

[Xilurm]

So I just did the Tyr's restoration quest. I don't know why people said Elisande's fate was vague. It's not at all, provided you read the notes you find in the room before the stairs.

This is an Elisande that will most likely not side with the Legion. It seems the disc gave her enough knowledge needed to save Suramar, so I assume we will most likely see her again, otherwise they wouldn't have let us know that.

This was a sad quest though, wtf.

I also wish we could have more conversations with Tyr.

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I hope there's more quests with him before TWW.

Also, I never really thought about this, but I wonder what a conversation with Elisande and Azshara would be like.

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Someone should tell him why Loken betrayed him, and that he's ok now.

[Eldryth]

Did anyone ever check out Tyr and Koranos in Amirdrassil again after finishing his questline? I can look for it myself if not, just have to finish the quests on the character I did the raid on.

You can also ask him a few questions at Tyr's Rest after the questline, but the only thing that stood out was his explanation of the Titans. He believes them to be incredibly wise beings that created almost everything good on Azeroth (which, iirc, Odyn's notes suggested that was propaganda, so I guess Tyr might be falling for it?). He also mentions that he doesn't know what their end goal is, but he trusts them... so I guess he'll be learning the truth along with us in The Last Titan. Maybe he'll end up rebelling along with us if the Titans' plans really do turn out to be bad for Azeroth?

[huth]

Did anyone ever check out Tyr and Koranos in Amirdrassil again after finishing his questline? I can look for it myself if not, just have to finish the quests on the character I did the raid on.

You can also ask him a few questions at Tyr's Rest after the questline, but the only thing that stood out was his explanation of the Titans. He believes them to be incredibly wise beings that created almost everything good on Azeroth (which, iirc, Odyn's notes suggested that was propaganda, so I guess Tyr might be falling for it?). He also mentions that he doesn't know what their end goal is, but he trusts them... so I guess he'll be learning the truth along with us in The Last Titan. Maybe he'll end up rebelling along with us if the Titans' plans really do turn out to be bad for Azeroth?

I think about Tyr that mostly tells us that he doesn't really know all that much beyond Azeroth either (possibly less than our character) and that we actually have a more personal knowledge of the Titans than he does, if rather brief. On the other hand, it throws a shadow on what exactly Odyn is keeping hidden from others, and why.
It seems he's both intent on keeping even the Keepers in the dark on their actual nature and against plans that directly involve them, such as the Aspect empowerment.

[Nathanyel]

Dynamic mounts are ideal for shorter distances, such as on quests. Flying is better for long distances.
It will probably be easier to handle

Did you mix that up? Old Flying lets you target better for short hops, but for longer trips, Dynamic Flying will always win by reducing flight time from e.g. 5 minutes to 1.

[Nymrohd]

Did anyone ever check out Tyr and Koranos in Amirdrassil again after finishing his questline? I can look for it myself if not, just have to finish the quests on the character I did the raid on.

You can also ask him a few questions at Tyr's Rest after the questline, but the only thing that stood out was his explanation of the Titans. He believes them to be incredibly wise beings that created almost everything good on Azeroth (which, iirc, Odyn's notes suggested that was propaganda, so I guess Tyr might be falling for it?). He also mentions that he doesn't know what their end goal is, but he trusts them... so I guess he'll be learning the truth along with us in The Last Titan. Maybe he'll end up rebelling along with us if the Titans' plans really do turn out to be bad for Azeroth?

The "Stay Awhile and Listen" now works but it doesn't add anything