The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Auxis]

When you realize that Tyr is essentially "the main character of an isekai" now.

Looking forward to his convo with the new Aspects. Especially with Vyranoth.

Havent played it yet; what's the deal with his memory disc? Did we get it back from Elisande and if so arent we going to use it to restore his memories?

[Eurhetemec]

I don't play hunter but I'm curious about the sentinel hero talents. Hopefully it goes with MM so I can play a huntress night elf without pets.

Priest is my main currently, so I'm mostly curious about Oracle.

We can probably guess most of them. I'm extremely bored right now and too cold to play WoW (don't ask lol) so let's go through a few:

Demon Hunter - Both available to both presumably (Aldrachi Reaver, Fel-Scarred)

Warrior - We know these:

Prot-Fury: Mountain Thane

Prot-Arms: Colossus

Arms-Fury: Slayer

Death Knight:

Blood-Unholy: San'layn

Blood-Frost: Rider of the Apocalypse

Frost-Unholy: Deathbringer

Druid - Not sure how this will be configured with four - i.e. will it be a square or what, so I'll skip these for now (Keeper of the Grove, Elune's Chosen, Wildstalker, Druid of the Claw - I mean it's probably Resto, Balance, Feral, Guardian as the associations with each, but not clear which two - or more - will share each).

Evoker:

Dev-Pres: Chronowarden

Dev-Aug: Ruby Adept

Pres-Aug: Scalecommander

Hunter:

Beast-MM: Packleader

Beast-Surv: Sentinel

MM-Surv: Dark Ranger

Mage:

Arcane-Frost: Spellslinger

Arcane-Fire: Sunfury

Fire-Frost: Frostfire (lol that's a bit of a gimme - in fact all three kind of are)

Monk:

Brew-WW: Shadow-Pan

Brew-Mist: Conduit of the Celestials

WW-Mist: Master of Harmony (these are the weakest of my guesses so far imho, very unsure)

Paladin:

Prot-Ret: Templar

Prot-Holy: Lightsmith

Ret-Holy: Herald of the Sun

Priest:

Holy-Disc: Archon

Holy-Shadow: Oracle

Disc-Shadow: Voidweaver

Rogue:

Ass-Sub: Fatebound

Ass-Outlaw: Deathstalker

Sub-Outlaw: Trickster

Shaman:

Ele-Resto: Farseer

Ele-Enhance: Stormbringer

Resto-Enhance: Totemic

Warlock:

Aff-Destro: Soul Harvester

Aff-Demo: Diabolist

Demo-Destro: Hellcaller


Really varying levels of confidence in these, interested to hear what other people thing and also to go back and see how right/wrong I was later on.

[huth]

Druid - Not sure how this will be configured with four - i.e. will it be a square or what, so I'll skip these for now (Keeper of the Grove, Elune's Chosen, Wildstalker, Druid of the Claw - I mean it's probably Resto, Balance, Feral, Guardian as the associations with each, but not clear which two - or more - will share each).

Since there's 4 and 4, it's almost certainly a square. Which means Feral will be both Wildstalker and Druid of the Claw since we know at least one tree for all other specs and both for Balance. But arguments could be made for both Resto and Guardian being Druid of the Claw, so those links are still up in the air.

[Therougetitan]

Evoker:

Dev-Pres: Chronowarden

Dev-Aug: Ruby Adept

Pres-Aug: Scalecommander

Chronowarden would be Preservation+Augmentation since both specs use bronze magic as a focus and chrono magic is bronze sounding.

[Eurhetemec]

Chronowarden would be Preservation+Augmentation since both specs use bronze magic as a focus and chrono magic is bronze sounding.

Yeah that could be, my confidence wasn't super-high there. If so I suspect that makes Dev-Aug Scalecommander which would make Dev-Pres Ruby Adept. I think it's really unlikely Scalecommander doesn't include Aug because Aug is all about buffing others, which has a very commander-y vibe.

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Since there's 4 and 4, it's almost certainly a square. Which means Feral will be both Wildstalker and Druid of the Claw since we know at least one tree for all other specs and both for Balance. But arguments could be made for both Resto and Guardian being Druid of the Claw, so those links are still up in the air.

If it is a square I expect Wildstalker will be Resto-Feral, and Druid of the Claw will be Feral-Guardian then Elune's Chosen will be Guardian-Balance (I think we have some hint it will be in fact, Elune's Chosen that is) and thus Keeper of the Grove would be Balance-Resto.

But I am kind of suspicious about all that, so I guess we'll see - it could be each spec can pick from three sets of Hero Talents rather than two.

[Daniri]

Really varying levels of confidence in these, interested to hear what other people thing and also to go back and see how right/wrong I was later on.

Only one I'm confident you're wrong about is Assassination-Subtlety not being Deathstalker. Deathstalkers are exactly a cross between the two. Plus "Fatebound" plays into Outlaw's dice theme.

I also suspect you're wrong about Chronowarden not being Augmentation-Preservation, since bronze is a primary school for both and it's not for Devastation.

Hunters were trickiest for me. I settled on:

Beast Mastery: Dark Ranger, Pack Leader
Survival: Pack Leader, Sentinel
Marksmanship: Sentinel, Dark Ranger

I don't think something called "Pack Leader" would be available to Marksmanship who usually don't even use pets nowadays, and because Marksmanship should have both Sentinel and Dark Ranger available to it. Which leaves deciding whether Sentinel or Dark Ranger should be Survival, and I've seen more Sentinels in melee than Dark Rangers.

[Eurhetemec]

Only one I'm confident you're wrong about is Assassination-Subtlety not being Deathstalker. Deathstalkers are exactly a cross between the two. Plus "Fatebound" plays into Outlaw's dice theme.

I also suspect you're wrong about Chronowarden not being Augmentation-Preservation, since bronze is a primary school for both and it's not for Devastation.

Hunters were trickiest for me. I settled on:

Beast Mastery: Dark Ranger, Pack Leader
Survival: Pack Leader, Sentinel
Marksmanship: Sentinel, Dark Ranger

I don't think something called "Pack Leader" would be available to Marksmanship who usually don't even use pets nowadays, and because Marksmanship should have both Sentinel and Dark Ranger available to it. Which leaves deciding whether Sentinel or Dark Rangers should be Survival, and I've seen more Sentinels in melee than Dark Rangers.

Yeah I wondered about the Hunter one and your reasoning is is close to mine - but I can't think of any time I've seen a Dark Ranger have a pet, whereas Sentinels often have tigers with them, so I think it's unlikely Dark Ranger has a Beast component.

Re: Rogue that's probably right, I'd forgotten Outlaw Rogues had the dice thing going on.

[Daniri]

Yeah I wondered about the Hunter one and your reasoning is is close to mine - but I can't think of any time I've seen a Dark Ranger have a pet, whereas Sentinels often have tigers with them, so I think it's unlikely Dark Ranger has a Beast component.

Re: Rogue that's probably right, I'd forgotten Outlaw Rogues had the dice thing going on.

Beast Mastery for Dark Rangers seems odd to me as well, but I can at least think of Nathanos using hounds, and there's some Dark Rangers outside of Southshore who have spider pets. Not much, but it's more than I can think for Dark Rangers not using a bow, which is just one Dark Ranger patrolling around in UC while dual wielding swords.

Edit: Actually, I think those Dark Rangers in Southshore might also use melee? It's an image that just came to mind. I'd have to check.

[huth]

If it is a square I expect Wildstalker will be Resto-Feral, and Druid of the Claw will be Feral-Guardian then Elune's Chosen will be Guardian-Balance (I think we have some hint it will be in fact, Elune's Chosen that is) and thus Keeper of the Grove would be Balance-Resto.

But I am kind of suspicious about all that, so I guess we'll see - it could be each spec can pick from three sets of Hero Talents rather than two.

More than a hint. Elune's Chosen buffs Balance and Guardian talents, while Keeper buffs treants that only Resto and Balance get. There's no real room for options left there. Also kinda unsurprising since the Keeper has always been more of a caster, while Moonkin (duh) and Guardian have the strongest moon themes.

[Eurhetemec]

Beast Mastery for Dark Rangers seems odd to me as well, but I can at least think of Nathanos using hounds, and there's some Dark Rangers outside of Southshore who have spider pets. Not much, but it's more than I can think for Dark Rangers not using a bow, which is just one Dark Ranger patrolling around in UC while dual wielding swords.

Yeah that's true re: South Shore. I feel like there's no way Sentinel doesn't have Beast though, given how often they have owls or tigers around. But there's no way Packleader is Surv-MM. It's a bit of a conundrum, but I suspect some of these names will get changed as concepts get refined down by the Blizzard team.

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More than a hint. Elune's Chosen buffs Balance and Guardian talents, while Keeper buffs treants that only Resto and Balance get. There's no real room for options left there. Also kinda unsurprising since the Keeper has always been more of a caster, while Moonkin (duh) and Guardian have the strongest moon themes.

Aha there we go then!

[Daniri]

Yeah that's true re: South Shore. I feel like there's no way Sentinel doesn't have Beast though, given how often they have owls or tigers around. But there's no way Packleader is Surv-MM. It's a bit of a conundrum, but I suspect some of these names will get changed as concepts get refined down by the Blizzard team.

On names alone, and if I were trying to be objective, I think the smart thing to do would be to merge Sentinel and Dark Ranger into one and just call it "Ranger". It covers more racial fantasy that way, as much as I'd love the validation my NE and forsaken hunters would get from having those names.

[Eurhetemec]

On names alone, and if I were trying to be objective, I think the smart thing to do would be to merge Sentinel and Dark Ranger into one and just call it "Ranger". It covers more racial fantasy that way, as much as I'd love the validation my NE and forsaken hunters would get from having those names.

That would probably be sensible. Then just offer any Dark Ranger customizations via a short questline or whatever (probably just recolour one spell and let you have dark skin and red eyes).

[Nymrohd]

Yeah I wondered about the Hunter one and your reasoning is is close to mine - but I can't think of any time I've seen a Dark Ranger have a pet, whereas Sentinels often have tigers with them, so I think it's unlikely Dark Ranger has a Beast component.

Re: Rogue that's probably right, I'd forgotten Outlaw Rogues had the dice thing going on.

Nathanos is a Dark Ranger and uses dogs.
Pack leader has to be BM and Surv, MM does not use pets
And they did make the Sentinel's Owl a spell instead of a pet ability.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah that's true re: South Shore. I feel like there's no way Sentinel doesn't have Beast though, given how often they have owls or tigers around. But there's no way Packleader is Surv-MM. It's a bit of a conundrum, but I suspect some of these names will get changed as concepts get refined down by the Blizzard team.

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Aha there we go then!

There is no way they change the name of dark ranger again, it's basically the only real selling point that feature has so far.

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Nathanos is a Dark Ranger and uses dogs.
Pack leader has to be BM and Surv, MM does not use pets
And they did make the Sentinel's Owl a spell instead of a pet ability.

This. BM should be packleader and dark ranger, MM dark ranger and sentinel, Survival packleader and sentinel. Also it's about time survival gets dual wield - Rexxar uses it, Nathanos and Sylvanas did use it, and they already said they want to open up weapon restrictions. Hunter can even equip one handed stuff, so they just have to make it so that you can transmog your 2h weapon to 2 1handers like they did with artifact weapons.

[Alanar]

And again you prove you haven't even remotely grasped what the discussion is about.

I think your problem is that you are not having a discussion with me, but with yourself here.

You make that very clear with this reaponse. Even when I bring back your only argument ever, you fail to even response to that. Instead you throw these shady comment, which usuallly happends when some one has nothing else to bring in. Your behaviour is very childisch to say the least.

[Worldshaper]

It's interesting that several titanforged Keepers are associated with the theme of 'Storms'.

Ra, the Keeper of Storms.

Thorim, the Stormlord.

Odyn, Storm God according to his own Valarjar (but probably more affiliated with the Light).

---

But their actual powers seem to be more themed around Light, Life, and Order/Arcane.

You don't really see any titanforged with innate powers over Disorder, Death, or Void.

So it's abuntandly clear that the Titans seek to order the universe using control over the Light, Life, Order, and the elements.

---

If you think about it, they're only using Life to sort of... control Life. Eonar imbued Freya, who orders the Emerald Dream out of the wild realms of Life, and plants World Trees (probably encouraged a bit by Elune) to both spread and control life. Turning a wild meadow into an ordetly garden, as it were.

---

But Light, however, is interesting. Both Tyr and Odyn, arguably the most heroic and valorous among the Keepers, are deeply connected to the Light.

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I feel as though they (Eonar) used Life to created new champions for Azeroth, seeing that as the path forward.

But also Light, perhaps to contain the impact of the Void. Having an army of Paladins on your side is probably useful, since the Light by itself can't really manifest in the physical realm.

The elements were used in different ways. For example to empower the Valarjar. But I'm guessing also to shape Azeroth further. It seems likely they also used it to create the storms around Avaloren, to contain whatever awaits us within, and keep other titanforged out from it.

Lastly, Order is of course their own force as far as we know. They used it to order and control all other forces on Azeroth, including the worldsoul itself by placing her within a form of stasis (prison).

[huth]

But Light, however, is interesting. Both Tyr and Odyn, arguably the most heroic and valorous among the Keepers, are deeply connected to the Light.

Tyr? Sure. Odyn? Bwahahaha. No.

And where is Odyn connected to the Light? That his ability do holy damage doesn't mean he has a Light connection.

[Worldshaper]

You do realize that just means the Pantheon of Order has an innate mindset to order everything in sight, yeah?

So why aren't they trying to use Death, Disorder or Shadow?

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Tyr? Sure. Odyn? Bwahahaha. No.

And where is Odyn connected to the Light? That his ability do holy damage doesn't mean he has a Light connection.

It's true. Odyn has powers of Light.

Blizzard has also been establishing a pretty solid connection between the Bronze flight, time magic, and the Paladin class in Hearthstone.

Aman'Thul is a time guy, and he created Odyn, as well as Nozdormu. Light, time, bronze, it all connects.

Probably because Light is the most fundamental force in the cosmos. In the beginning, it was all just an endless sea of Light. I'm guessing that somehow connects to time flowing in one direction or whatever.

Maybe Aman'Thul wants to recreate the original order of the cosmos the way it was before Void spawned from the Light, and the universe became a more chaotic place.

If we assume a Shard of Light crashed into Azeroth, creating the worldsoul in the process, maybe the worldsoul became a way for Aman'Thul to recreate perfect order or something. Letting the Light wash over everything.

[Merryck]

Surely not all the Titans are on board with this conspiracy. Eonar, of course, has already been established as having philosophical differences with Aman'Thul. I could see Golganneth siding with Eonar since his elements, the storms and seas, are naturally quite chaotic. Norgannon, however, is likely to side with Aman'Thul seeing as they have a lot of overlap. Khaz'goroth could lean either way.

Hopefully they seize this opportunity to add depth to the Pantheon rather than making them all (except Eonar) Order robots.

[Daniri]

Hopefully they seize this opportunity to add depth to the Pantheon rather than making them all (except Eonar) Order robots.

If any of them are "Order robots" it won't have depth, especially if you're not going to even allow for things like the physics that govern the formation of storms to be an example of "Order". It'll just be "Fascism" on one side and "Family" on the other.