The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Woggmer]

Idc if the story improves now Danusers gone the fact remains that Shadowlands doesn't need people to explain how terrible it was for the game, how it ruined decades of lore and turned a beloved franchise into a joke for many of its players. Link the clip of nobbel loosing faith in it.

It wasn't just the lore, but the gameplay.. like I said, no matter how much of the story could've improved there was nothing that can save it from the covenant system which was an entirely bad idea that people constantly warned about since the Alpha.

I sincerely hope that we get more info about TWW in this week or the next one... We won't get new info about 10.2.6 until March and Cata Classic's Beta having been delayed is going to feel like a painfully long few weeks to wait for any new information.

[Viridiel]

That goes with my "islands of Azeroth" thing.

My vision is that after (or during) The Last Titan we destroy the elemental plane, causing another cataclysm that spurs on piecemeal revamps of the Old World that essentially amounts to revisiting older expansions, although I think it will get more mixed and abstract as we go along. For example, I think we'll get a South Seas expansion that essentially amounts to a revamp of Mists and BfA, but with a focus on pirates/seafaring and just taking place in an area that includes (the now very different) Pandaria and BfA zones. I think revisiting WoD will be in the form of a revamped Central Kalimdor since that's where the orcs live and a bunch of wildlife from Draenor is loose in Durotar and the Barrens. We could still revisit AU Draenor, but if we do I think it'd be a single zone. Yrel and her Sparkling Crusade have surely left the planet and are enslaving the entire alternate universe.

But it isn't really interesting enough to just visit old areas for the sake of it, so I'm sure these stories will be tied together with the cosmic storylines. The cosmic-level storylines we have breadcrumbs for already are Denathrius, Elune, Light vs. Void, and the First Ones stuff. On Azeroth we have Avaloren, Elun'Ahir, and the Nightsquall, which might all end up being tied together in the same expansion although I hope that's not the case. They've got a lot of wiggle room when it comes to combining all of these different-level storylines and their implications to each other -- i.e., any planet-level or cosmic-level storyline could easily literally reshape the planet and allow for removal of constraints without retconning/"disrespecting" old lore.

[Woggmer]

My vision is that after (or during) The Last Titan we destroy the elemental plane, causing another cataclysm that spurs on piecemeal revamps of the Old World that essentially amounts to revisiting older expansions, although I think it will get more mixed and abstract as we go along. For example, I think we'll get a South Seas expansion that essentially amounts to a revamp of Mists and BfA, but with a focus on pirates/seafaring and just taking place in an area that includes (the now very different) Pandaria and BfA zones. I think revisiting WoD will be in the form of a revamped Central Kalimdor since that's where the orcs live and a bunch of wildlife from Draenor is loose in Durotar and the Barrens. We could still revisit AU Draenor, but if we do I think it'd be a single zone. Yrel and her Sparkling Crusade have surely left the planet and are enslaving the entire alternate universe.

But it isn't really interesting enough to just visit old areas for the sake of it, so I'm sure these stories will be tied together with the cosmic storylines. The cosmic-level storylines we have breadcrumbs for already are Denathrius, Elune, Light vs. Void, and the First Ones stuff. On Azeroth we have Avaloren, Elun'Ahir, and the Nightsquall, which might all end up being tied together in the same expansion although I hope that's not the case. They've got a lot of wiggle room when it comes to combining all of these different-level storylines and their implications to each other -- i.e., any planet-level or cosmic-level storyline could easily literally reshape the planet and allow for removal of constraints without retconning/"disrespecting" old lore.

Well, I don't think we'll be seeing a Cataclysm since we just killed the Firelord and pretty soon a new one will have to take the place...There's also the issue that Magatha Grimtotem is still out there (she was supposed to show up in DF but for some reason they cut that part out.. yet through a bit of searching in Wowhead, you can find her model set for 10.0 aka DF's launch.) And we don't know the dangerous power that is the Doomstone and what it is capable of but it was hyped up to be something extremely powerful.

We don't know what'll happen when the Titans show up, but I don't think they'll free the Elemental Lords from their prison... and even if we did free them, there's no guarantee that they'll be friendly with each other or with us (like with Smolderon in DF).


But if we're expecting areas that need revamps.. I want to see Outland get one. It's been over 15 years since we last been there, 10 if you were a warlock doing the green fire quest. And Sabellion and his crew show up and say "The realm of Outland is a terrifying place with horrific monsters.. in a harsh world." ...We can one shot anything in Outland, they're not that scary.

[Auxis]

Well, I don't think we'll be seeing a Cataclysm since we just killed the Firelord and pretty soon a new one will have to take the place...There's also the issue that Magatha Grimtotem is still out there (she was supposed to show up in DF but for some reason they cut that part out.. yet through a bit of searching in Wowhead, you can find her model set for 10.0 aka DF's launch.) And we don't know the dangerous power that is the Doomstone and what it is capable of but it was hyped up to be something extremely powerful.

We don't know what'll happen when the Titans show up, but I don't think they'll free the Elemental Lords from their prison... and even if we did free them, there's no guarantee that they'll be friendly with each other or with us (like with Smolderon in DF).


But if we're expecting areas that need revamps.. I want to see Outland get one. It's been over 15 years since we last been there, 10 if you were a warlock doing the green fire quest. And Sabellion and his crew show up and say "The realm of Outland is a terrifying place with horrific monsters.. in a harsh world." ...We can one shot anything in Outland, they're not that scary.

Well, we know from the Saurfang cinematic in BFA that Nagrand - one of the last safe places in Outland - is finally showing signs of death. The wheat that Thrall grows crumbled as Varok grazed it with his hands. If that is happening to a zone where the Elemental Furies call home, I don't think the other zones that are literally almost 100% stone and dirt are going to be faring much better for any longer - Netherstorm is on the brink of collapse pretty much 99% of the time due to it's storms, Blades edge is right next door to Netherstorm but might fair better seeing as it seems to be a solid chunk of rock, Hellfire Penninsula looks brittle AF, same goes for SMV.

Terokkar Forest and Zangarmarsh might survive for a bit, especially Zangar seeing as it's basically the corpse of a Sporemound.

[Viridiel]

Well, I don't think we'll be seeing a Cataclysm since we just killed the Firelord and pretty soon a new one will have to take the place...There's also the issue that Magatha Grimtotem is still out there (she was supposed to show up in DF but for some reason they cut that part out.. yet through a bit of searching in Wowhead, you can find her model set for 10.0 aka DF's launch.) And we don't know the dangerous power that is the Doomstone and what it is capable of but it was hyped up to be something extremely powerful.

We don't know what'll happen when the Titans show up, but I don't think they'll free the Elemental Lords from their prison... and even if we did free them, there's no guarantee that they'll be friendly with each other or with us (like with Smolderon in DF).


But if we're expecting areas that need revamps.. I want to see Outland get one. It's been over 15 years since we last been there, 10 if you were a warlock doing the green fire quest. And Sabellion and his crew show up and say "The realm of Outland is a terrifying place with horrific monsters.. in a harsh world." ...We can one shot anything in Outland, they're not that scary.

By a cataclysm I meant a world-changing event, not a revisit of Cataclysm. I really definitely do not want to reopen the debate of whether Dragonflight was an "elemental" expansion or not, but I think it would be difficult to argue that Dragonflight didn't at least touch on most of the themes of Cataclysm. The only thing missing was Thrall.

I also don't see why the titans would possibly be the ones to free the elemental lords, and I also don't see why they would be particularly friendly toward us. I think Iridikron is going to release them and they're all going to be hostile toward us and each other, which is what's going to cause a reshaping of the world and create new factions and enemies. Only two of the original elemental lords are left, and only one of the two still have an area on Azeroth that corresponds to their original domain. Neptulon will definitely return to Northern Kalimdor, but Therazane's domain doesn't really exist anymore (I think Highmountain is the only remnant left, maybe Howling Fjord), Thunderaan isn't necessarily beholden to Al'Akir's former domain, and we don't know what's going on with the Fire Lord. There's a lot of wiggle room.

I think there's a fairly strong chance we'll revisit Outland in the World Soul Saga. Outland is our anchor point in the Twisting Nether, so if the story takes us to the Twisting Nether then I think it needs to take us to Outland.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, we know from the Saurfang cinematic in BFA that Nagrand - one of the last safe places in Outland - is finally showing signs of death. The wheat that Thrall grows crumbled as Varok grazed it with his hands. If that is happening to a zone where the Elemental Furies call home, I don't think the other zones that are literally almost 100% stone and dirt are going to be faring much better for any longer - Netherstorm is on the brink of collapse pretty much 99% of the time due to it's storms, Blades edge is right next door to Netherstorm but might fair better seeing as it seems to be a solid chunk of rock, Hellfire Penninsula looks brittle AF, same goes for SMV.

Terokkar Forest and Zangarmarsh might survive for a bit, especially Zangar seeing as it's basically the corpse of a Sporemound.

I agree. Blade's Edge Mountains are doing very well according to Sabellian, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's because of the black dragons' earth magic and/or Apexis magic. Same goes for Nagrand -- the shaman are probably working with the Furies to hold everything together but I don't see it lasting. Auchindoun was a mild earthquake away from snapping off into the Nether and Shadowmoon Valley was still being barraged with Arcane and Fel magic from the ritual that tore the planet apart to begin with.

I think if we return, the continent is essentially just going to be Blade's Edge Mountains, Zangarmarsh, and Shattrath.

[huth]

But the same time they raise the level cap they almost always nerf scaling anyway: They don't actually need to do both. Also, remember when they just set raidbosses as two levels above the actual levelcap?

No, they always do that as part of the levelcap raising. Those aren't two seperate things. They only changed it for the same level during ilvl squishes and then they changed both the required rating and that provided by items by the same amount.

Raidbosses have been maxlevel +3 since the very start and still are. You really need to work on your memory.

[Woggmer]

By a cataclysm I meant a world-changing event, not a revisit of Cataclysm. I really definitely do not want to reopen the debate of whether Dragonflight was an "elemental" expansion or not, but I think it would be difficult to argue that Dragonflight didn't at least touch on most of the themes of Cataclysm. The only thing missing was Thrall.

I also don't see why the titans would possibly be the ones to free the elemental lords, and I also don't see why they would be particularly friendly toward us. I think Iridikron is going to release them and they're all going to be hostile toward us and each other, which is what's going to cause a reshaping of the world and create new factions and enemies. Only two of the original elemental lords are left, and only one of the two still have an area on Azeroth that corresponds to their original domain. Neptulon will definitely return to Northern Kalimdor, but Therazane's domain doesn't really exist anymore (I think Highmountain is the only remnant left, maybe Howling Fjord), Thunderaan isn't necessarily beholden to Al'Akir's former domain, and we don't know what's going on with the Fire Lord. There's a lot of wiggle room.

I didn't mean the Titans freeing the Elemental Lords willfully, but that whatever happens to them AFTER the Last Titan (either they leave Azeroth for good or be killed), the prisons that held those Elemental Lords would break down and vanish with the Titans.

Also, I didn't mean about making an entire expansion around the Elemental Lords as Cata and Legion (if you played a shaman) covered those bases... but the fact remains is that Magatha is still on the loose and the folks at Blizzard either had something planned for her in DF or they want to reserve her for something special. It is just one avenue to explore.

Though I would agree with the idea of Iridikron opening the ways to the Elemental Planes to freeing each of the Elemental Lords in order to have them clash with the Titans... similar to stuff we've seen in Hercules and God of War where the Titans attacked Mount Olympus.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, we know from the Saurfang cinematic in BFA that Nagrand - one of the last safe places in Outland - is finally showing signs of death. The wheat that Thrall grows crumbled as Varok grazed it with his hands. If that is happening to a zone where the Elemental Furies call home, I don't think the other zones that are literally almost 100% stone and dirt are going to be faring much better for any longer - Netherstorm is on the brink of collapse pretty much 99% of the time due to it's storms, Blades edge is right next door to Netherstorm but might fair better seeing as it seems to be a solid chunk of rock, Hellfire Penninsula looks brittle AF, same goes for SMV.

Terokkar Forest and Zangarmarsh might survive for a bit, especially Zangar seeing as it's basically the corpse of a Sporemound.

It may be important to return there, as while it is a decaying planet... the inhabitants like the Broken, Arakkoa, Ogres, MU Mag'har, and whatever else is left.. would probably want to get off the planet before it fully crumbles to nothing or get enveloped by the Nether.

[huth]

I didn't mean the Titans freeing the Elemental Lords willfully, but that whatever happens to them AFTER the Last Titan (either they leave Azeroth for good or be killed), the prisons that held those Elemental Lords would break down and vanish with the Titans.

They didn't poof out of existence the last time that happened, i don't see why they would now. The elemental plane is likely self-sustained.

And at least two of the elemental lords have no particular beef with us and are perfectly willing to talk things through first.

[Lady Atia]

That doesn't mean much. Children entered the online-gaming market en masse in the past few years (because ~10 years ago small children were not on the internet 24/7 as much) [e.g. phone-gaming and tablet-gaming for children is massive on pay2win nonsense].

For games for adults like WoW (more or less for adults) I think it's way more insulting than it's often implied to be that unethical (or much more NOTICED(kids are more naive and they can be more easily fooled on tablet/phone gaming)).

What is this guy even talking about? I started WoW when i was 10 lol .... if you want a game for "adults", maybe choose something with an 18+ rating? Besides that, it's the adults who have money for micro transactions, not kids (and any "adult" who gives their kids unlimited credit card access for a phone game ... well ....)

[Pyrophax]

I didn't mean the Titans freeing the Elemental Lords willfully, but that whatever happens to them AFTER the Last Titan (either they leave Azeroth for good or be killed), the prisons that held those Elemental Lords would break down and vanish with the Titans.

Also, I didn't mean about making an entire expansion around the Elemental Lords as Cata and Legion (if you played a shaman) covered those bases... but the fact remains is that Magatha is still on the loose and the folks at Blizzard either had something planned for her in DF or they want to reserve her for something special. It is just one avenue to explore.

Though I would agree with the idea of Iridikron opening the ways to the Elemental Planes to freeing each of the Elemental Lords in order to have them clash with the Titans... similar to stuff we've seen in Hercules and God of War where the Titans attacked Mount Olympus.

- - - Updated - - -



It may be important to return there, as while it is a decaying planet... the inhabitants like the Broken, Arakkoa, Ogres, MU Mag'har, and whatever else is left.. would probably want to get off the planet before it fully crumbles to nothing or get enveloped by the Nether.

Like half of them on the way already. Mag'hars on the move, according to their chieftain. Draenei I think will come too, hints will be in their heritage questline.
Sporregar I think will not come.
Netherwing already there.
My wish is one of main patches after TLT - to create large questchain to migrate all from Outland. All who want it. And after that lorewise - Outland crumble for good.
All should be made with remaking some zones in Azeroth to populate them with Outland creatures.

- - - Updated - - -

We can have storyline with evacuating outland inhabitants from annihilation. It could be prepatch of world rewamp expansion.
Horde players comes to Garadar to save our Mag'Hars. Geyara comes with us to see what is it - dying Draenor via Fell magic. Then go to Orgi'la for orges. Shadowmoon village, Thrallmar, troll post in Zangarmarch. Portaling Scryers to Silvermoon. Taking Tempest keep main unit to Quel'Thalas from Netherstorm.

Alliance - to Shattrath and Telaar, help draenei comes to Auchidoun to put their ancestors to rest, evacuating Aldors and brokens, Take Tempest keep satellites with them. High elves from Alleria Stronghold, Night Elves, Honor Hold. Maybe even arakkoa with them.

And faction agnostic - help Sporeggar and Area 52 come to Azeroth.

Netherwings are already here btw, Mag'Hars are ready to depart too.

And in rewamp - we could help settle them.
Sporeggar to Swamps of Sorrow, imagine it with glowing mushroom, majestic view.
Arrakoa - somewhere to NE lands, they love shadows and woods - maybe cured Felwood? And recieve blessing of Aviana to be cured.
Mag'Hars - both AU and MU - to Barrens (united zone, not parts) and Winterspring?
Ogres - in Kalimdor, maybe Dire Maul? Or take aestetic of Highmaul and build new city, maybe in Stonetalon? Somewhere near Horde lands, but not inhabited yet.

Place Satelites near Exodar, make New Shattrath with their parts. Flying Crystals, big city for every eredar (man'ari, LFD, draenei, broken, krokuls)
Tempest keep above Quel'Danas. Majestic city of Silvermoon with flying red stronghold filled with magi. That could work.

Then - close portal in portal room to Outland, make it via Caverns of time for raids and some content (yes, warglaves and a'lar should be earnable), move Warlock greenfire quest in Azeroth too. And be done with dying world.

Requote myself for that.

[Raidoser]

It's, again, not a problem, but the Titans are relying on mortals to help them. Given their power and myth, that "diminishes them". And Legion "ruined" the Titans VIA showcasing that Titans can and have been defeated, granted Chronicle did it first VIA having Sargeras defeat them. Legion furthered it by having mortals defeat the world soul of Argus, albeit weakened.

Is Wow your first fantasy game ? did you ever read old polytheists religions mythologies ?

- D&D : gods need mortals followers to do their bidding and spread their faith since they can't interact directly with Toril
- Elders scrolls : 8/9 of the good aedra (julianos, stendarr etc) are dead Talos is the only one "alive", Daedra constantly use mortal to help their schemes (including you the player)
- Pillars of eternity 2 : you literally begin with one the god (the pale lady) talking to you face to face to send you on a mission to hunt another god
- Viking gods and Ragnarok
- Most of the greek pantheon was stuck in Chronos belly for a time and they constantly favor champions that represent their portfolio so they can continue to do so

In all these cases godlike being weren't diminished it's the same for wow and the titans.

Also Shadowland expanded thing in a horrible way, since speaking of Danuser work make me go berserk i will just link one of the numerous post explaining why : https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...terlife/937651

[Civciv]

Nobbel thinks Teldrassil genocide was a cool moment in wow, what is going on lol.

[huth]

So Bellular just released a pretty interesting video about the Tomb of Sargeras. In it, he mentions Titan watchers called Eonic Defenders, and speculates that the former Temple of Elune might have roots of Elun'Ahir underneath of it.

That would then explain why this place has been sought by Old Gods and Guardians alike over the millennia.

Azj-Kahet has giant roots as well, beneath the Isle of Dorn.

Could it be that my theory about Elun'Ahir is right? That the tree once stood right where the Well of Eternity and later the Maelstrom ended up.

I don't think that timeline would work out. Aman'thul created the Well when he tore Y'shaarj off of Azeroth, which would have been before the tree was planted and the current Watchers were put in place.

[Woggmer]

Like half of them on the way already. Mag'hars on the move, according to their chieftain. Draenei I think will come too, hints will be in their heritage questline.
Sporregar I think will not come.
Netherwing already there.
My wish is one of main patches after TLT - to create large questchain to migrate all from Outland. All who want it. And after that lorewise - Outland crumble for good.
All should be made with remaking some zones in Azeroth to populate them with Outland creatures.

There is one other thing... which I'm sure might get covered in the Draenei Heritage armor storyline.. and that's finding the final missing Ata'mal Crystal Shard, Leafshadow. (While we found it in AU, I'm referring to the MU version which was lost after the Orcs used it to raid Shattrath.)

My best bet is that Leafshadow is hidden somewhere near Aunchindoun but ever since Murmur was summoned and leveled the whole area, the crystal was probably buried somewhere in the rubble. Once Velen has acquired all shard to reform the crystal, then he can probably get the Naaru's help to evacuate the last remaining life forms off Outland before it crumbles over. He did it before when he evacuated the Draenei off Argus, he could theoretically do the same for Outland. (Though it will still exist in-game for people to play through TBC stuff.)

[Ersula]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that happened before the tree got planted?

because Alexstrasza explicitly planted Hyjal to plug up the second well Illidan made. Neither wells were supposed to exist.

[Sondrelk]

Nobbel thinks Teldrassil genocide was a cool moment in wow, what is going on lol.

That is true though. It was a cool moment. The buildup was pretty good, and the questoine where you had to scramble to save civilians before passing out from smoke inhalation and having to escape was pretty fantastic as a questline.
All the stuff after however was pretty shit. How it made the Horde inarguably evil in a way that stretched belief as a player faction. How it made Sylvanas into the WoW equivalent of Hitler, and the ramifications this in turn had on Shadowlands. How the story had to drag the corpse of the storyline around for years before finally having a decent ending at the end of DF.

A storyline can be good on its own, while at the same time causing irreparable damage to the greater narrative.

[Makabreska]

Ye, I remember all these WTF faces of people who saw Teldrassil burning at the beginning of BfA trailer. Literally no one expected that and served as an instant faction-tension booster.

[Varodoc]

The Burning of Teldrassil was an attempt to make a "WoW version" of the Red Wedding.

The difference is that the Red Wedding was foreshadowed in advance, while the Burning of Teldrassil was a literal asspull out of nowhere.

Therein we see one of the major differences between (successful) Boomer writing and (failed) Millennial writing. Set-up; Foreshadowing; The ability to lay the hints of an event well before it actually happens.

The Burning of Teldrassil is literally out of nowhere with absolutely 0 foreshadowing before-hand. That is not how you write a storyline.

[Makorus]

Not everything needs foreshadowing.

[Varodoc]

Not everything needs foreshadowing.

Major story developments whose primary function is shock value need foreshadowing. Otherwise, it is bad writing.

If a shock value development does not have foreshadowing, it is automatically badly-written.

Every random 4 years old kid is able to asspull a big explosion out of nowhere. Only a masterful writer is able to lay the hints and foreshadow before-hand.

That is the difference between Boomer/Gen.X writing and Millennial writing.