The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

*Sigh* Why do I get the feeling High end Raiders are going to try and ruin content for Solo/small group players again, Just saw a video of Tali moaning he will feel "Obligated" to do Delves just because they reward gear and he "Needs" to fill out his Vault weekly, I mean fuck you Tali we solo small players are not just Trash we have other things going on in life like kids and jobs and your fucking job is playing WoW, I really hope these elitist assholes don't ruin something potentially good again.

I'm not linking his video because I don't wish to support him but this is the sort of mindset most High End Raiders hold because they fucking live in WoW, no ones asking for their things to be taken away and the small glimmer of a solo gearing path for people is promising but these guys are asking for it to be removed.

It's ironic the minority are the loudest as I read only 7% of the playerbase actually got AOTC from Sarthek (whatever his name is) and trhis was recorded back in Nov just before 1.2 dropped.

Wait, do you really think Tali is a high end raider? He barely manages to get his KSM mounts each season and I think he only does HC raid.

Also, 18% of current active players got AotC Sarkareth. Cutting Edge was 2%.

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Torghast had promise, and it was nerfed into the ground to become a massive chore, these so called "influencers" are a plague.

Also, influencers loved Torghast, it's no ones fault but Blizzards with what happened to Torghast lol.

[Kiria]

Wait, do you really think Tali is a high end raider? He barely manages to get his KSM mounts each season and I think he only does HC raid.

Also, 18% of current active players got AotC Sarkareth. Cutting Edge was 2%.

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Also, influencers loved Torghast, it's no ones fault but Blizzards with what happened to Torghast lol.

Oh I agree, but Tali currently is giving off that complete Elitist asshole attitude and I used to think he was alright but i definitely dont agree with his stance on this.

Blizz detected fun with all the races and competitions streamers were having with Torghast and nerfed it accordingly, Bobby decreed "No fun allowed".

[Lady Atia]

Oh I agree, but Tali currently is giving off that complete Elitist asshole attitude and I used to think he was alright but i definitely dont agree with his stance on this.

Blizz detected fun with all the races and competitions streamers were having with Torghast and nerfed it accordingly, Bobby decreed "No fun allowed".

Na, the Torghast changes sadly just fit with their former stance of "we need players to grind shit in order to have them hooked". It's the last remnant of their shitty borrowed power philosophy, nothing else.

[Eldryth]

I'm hoping there's more to it, but unless Magni buys the farm SO fast we can't communicate with him for a second, it feels like it would be easy for him to confirm or deny it.

WoW's plot, for all the bad decisions, usually follows the simplest and most predictable path in the least interesting way.

Thrall and Anduin's trepidation just reads as someone strangely in the dark on it.

It's probably just the writers deciding to make Anduin and Thrall ignorant about it to justify explaining everything again at the start of the Saga. It's not clear how many people actually know about the Worldsoul in-universe, so they could just have Magni explain it to them at the start of TWW for the benefit of new and returning players, or anyone else who isn't familiar with that plotline.

[Marlamin]

10.2.6 this way cometh

[Auxis]

I hope (highly unlikely, though) that they open more Covenant abilities to more specs.

I just learned that Adaptive Swarm increases dot damage taken by the affected targets. And Balance doesn't get it; A spec with 2 core dots and has a mini build focused around dots doesn't get a CD that improves dots.

In a similar vein, Weapons of Order looks frigging amazing with its new spell effects in 10.2.5. Would be nice if MW and WW could have access to it, maybe as a choice node with Jadefire Stomp. And adjoining talent nodes improve it.

[Dracullus]

10.2.6 this way cometh

Pretty fast. Guess they wanted prepare some stuff earlier before Christmas break?

[Lahis]

I hope (highly unlikely, though) that they open more Covenant abilities to more specs.

I just learned that Adaptive Swarm increases dot damage taken by the affected targets. And Balance doesn't get it; A spec with 2 core dots and has a mini build focused around dots doesn't get a CD that improves dots.

In a similar vein, Weapons of Order looks frigging amazing with its new spell effects in 10.2.5. Would be nice if MW and WW could have access to it, maybe as a choice node with Jadefire Stomp. And adjoining talent nodes improve it.

Adaptive Swarm also increases HOT healing. It was dogshit for Balance compared to first Night Fae and later Venthyr abilities, so no Boomkin ever used Necrolord. For Resto however it was very good especially for dungeons, so Necrolord was popular pick for Resto, thus As made its way to Restoration tree in Dragonflight.

[Jaggler]

Pretty fast. Guess they wanted prepare some stuff earlier before Christmas break?

Well, 10.2.5 kinda has to arrive before 11th Jan unless they postpone the Outland Cup. Considering they pretty much send the next patch on the PTR after the last one arrives and the holidays coming up, i guess, they are preparing it now.

So i guess 10.2.7 is Season 4 with Fated raids then.

[MCMLXXXII]

Well, 10.2.5 kinda has to arrive before 11th Jan unless they postpone the Outland Cup. Considering they pretty much send the next patch on the PTR after the last one arrives and the holidays coming up, i guess, they are preparing it now.

So i guess 10.2.7 is Season 4 with Fated raids then.

Do they actually need 10.2.5 for the Outland Cup?

[Nathanyel]

*Sigh* Why do I get the feeling High end Raiders are going to try and ruin content for Solo/small group players again, Just saw a video of Tali moaning he will feel "Obligated" to do Delves just because they reward gear and he "Needs" to fill out his Vault weekly, I mean fuck you Tali we solo small players are not just Trash we have other things going on in life like kids and jobs and your fucking job is playing WoW, I really hope these elitist assholes don't ruin something potentially good again.

So, I'm currently listening to the YT recap of that stream discussion as that's not cut by him and might warp some talking points, but the more I go, the more I think you didn't actually watch that, you watched someone else "reacting" to it, picking half-sentences and arguing against perceived elitist talking points.

What I got from that was: progress people (and those that think they are) might feel obligated to run Delves every week for the mentioned rewards up to Heroic Raid level. Tali doesn't exclude himself from that, sure, but he states that this kind of player would run even Delves in a degenerate way for the slightest chance at an upgrade.
Other than straight up limiting drops to just one item of heroic iLvl, he mentioned putting Delves on the Dungeons track of the Vault, so the aforementioned tryhards wouldn't feel obligated to do content that would be trivial to them in hope of a heroic drop, since M+ would offer an even higher iLvl, so that remains the go-to method.
My opinion: this wouldn't affect those that Delves are aimed at (solo players who rarely group up) as that changes little from their perspective, or could even even be beneficial, as there doesn't have to be that much of a hurdle or difficulty spike to reach the highest rewards if high-end players don't have to be taken into account, it can be balanced with just casual players in mind.

edit to clarify and tldr: he would prefer if high-end players would not feel obligated to run Delves for gear, both to safeguard these players from their own minmaxing attitude, and (rather an interpretation from me) to not have the feedback of these players affect Delves too much, which can only benefit the intended audience.

Here, let me link the video:

(Now, to be fair, it does that thing T&E often do, using a negative-sounding title/thumb as a parody of clickbait despite offering a generally fair or even positive take, which too often fails to really be a parody.
But that's more an issue with how viewers respond to videos, and how creators have to please the algorithm)

I just learned that Adaptive Swarm increases dot damage taken by the affected targets. And Balance doesn't get it; A spec with 2 core dots and has a mini build focused around dots doesn't get a CD that improves dots.

I wouldn't mind Balance getting access to it, but it's still a rather hard-cast spec compared to Resto and Feral, which juggle multiple HoTs/DoTs.

[Dracullus]

Wut? I don't think we learned anything important about Delves since Blizzcon, and response for that was almost 100% positive. Sounds like clickbait.

[Jaggler]

Do they actually need 10.2.5 for the Outland Cup?

Well, they could push the rewards into the game with a hotfix i guess, but it is pretty clear that 10.2.5 is supposed to arrive before the Cup, considering all the rewards are there.

[Chickat]

Is the archives event playable yet?

[Nathanyel]

Wut? I don't think we learned anything important about Delves since Blizzcon, and response for that was almost 100% positive. Sounds like clickbait.

All that was discussed was what we learned at BlizzCon, particularly that they'd reward gear up to the itemLevel of Heroic Raids.

[Kiria]

Snip

I watched enough for him to say he would feel "Obligated" to do this content even though he knows very little about it and then I turned it off as I had heard enough about him wanting it to share Vault tracks with Dungeons/Raids whatever...

People should NOT be advocating for the removal of content because they feel they HAVE to do it like degenerates!

Also if I have heard wrong then so have most of his commenters saying exactly the same thing on how they are looking forward to Delves, obviously you get the few hardcore assholes in there crying telling people they deserve nothing.

Not me but another commenter said exactly what I thought aswell about how he talked down to others and how he was expecting the content to be mandatory;



Until we know more about DElves and other content in WTT people should not be trying to belittle others into wanting abit more accessibility in game, Hell I broke my hand trying to do the Gold Challenge runs for DragonRiding because of my illness, I never got it and I was extremely pissed at myself for not being able to do the content properly because I was missing the finish line by like 0.02 sec for Gold..

I can't play in groups due to things like this as I can easily break or bruise bones but I seriously love WoW and I hate it when I see the elitist class Raiders crying because they have to do something extra to get more shinies quicker...

[Skildar]

What reassure me in delves compared to Torghast is that the mechanics have been described as puzzles and games where Torghast was monster bashing. So the gameplay in itself has an interesting added value.

When it comes to time investment though I'm a bit worried that as someone who does a lot of mythic +, I will not be able to feel rewarded for the time I put in to explore delves. But the issue here doesn't really lie with this new content and more with the fact that mythic + dungeons are the overall best source of high-end gear.

A couple of activities hooked me during Dragonflight, the time rifts in Thaldrazsus and the Zkera vaults, the latter wasn't great but I did find myself playing it for a long time just to feel like I've had opened and completed all rooms and chests. So I guess that as long as the delves are entertaining they will be fine, whatever the rewards (and we already know that there are some very unique cosmetics there), I will just probably not give them a priority at the season launch.

[Nathanyel]

I watched enough for him to say he would feel "Obligated" to do this content even though he knows very little about it

Like I said, he didn't exclude himself from what he was describing, but stated this was actually an outright degenerate way to play.
And sure, we don't know much yet, but we can extrapolate that Delves draw from previous features such as Islands, Torghast and Sniffenseeking.

Tali wants it to be a good feature, without making it "mandatory" for certain people because you can theoretically receive loot from it that's beneficial for progress in Heroic/Mythic raids.
I know for a fact that he is pro-casual, and was so long before Asmon & Co. suddenly realized they were adults that not always had the free time to nolife WoW, after they had been proponents of gatekeeping gear and story behind raids for years.

People should NOT be advocating for the removal of content because they feel they HAVE to do it like degenerates!

And that's entirely not what he said, he wants to remove a theoretical "need" for high-end players (the opposite of the intended audience of Delves) to farm them. He didn't say that Delves should be removed, or that Delves themselves should be changed. The mentioned heroic-level reward would presumably be on a weekly lockout anyway, so why not put it on the Dungeons track?

Also if I have heard wrong then so have most of his commenters saying exactly the same thing on how they are looking forward to Delves, obviously you get the few hardcore assholes in there crying telling people they deserve nothing.

I actually forgot to mention the comments, when I browsed over them, they seemed neutral or positive toward Tali's take, with only a handful outright disagreeing.

Honestly, I really don't get why removing the need for high-end players to play Delves would affect their experience for the casual part of the playerbase they are aimed at.
To the contrary, I believe that if Delves were lucrative for raiders/M+ players, their feedback could ruin the feature for the casuals, e.g. by causing the top end to be too challenging.

[Kiria]

Their feedback could ruin the feature for the casuals, e.g. by causing the top end to be too challenging.

To be honest I dont mind Challenging Solo content, I loved Visions and MT and found them fun, I even leveled a Warlock back in the day to do the Green fire quest while it was hard and I managed to do it.

The thing that pisses me off the most is the fact they're looking to already outright nerf the reward structure to being a cosmetic only or alot more worthless than their Special Raiders only gear before its even been seen or released.

I may not have heard Tali say the things you said but from what I heard he was talking about solo/small group players of just being trash who want something for nothing which is most definitely not the case for most of us solo players, I personally no longer raid due to RL responsibilities (Life) and I refuse to go near M+ because I had alot of bad experiences with people leaving/trolling to ruin runs and its just so Toxic unless you reach the higher keys.

So personally from what little I know of this new Solo player progression arc, I am seriously looking forward to it.

[Well Done Steak]

, their feedback could ruin the feature for the casuals, e.g. by causing the top end to be too challenging.

Wth is wrong with the top end solo content to be challenging??