The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

Yeah, seven years ago on Argus. A Yrel invasion would take place on Azeroth, and since AU Draenor will be dead or destroyed, we’ll be on Azeroth the entire expansion. Probably on Avaloren.

Location doesn’t matter if you’re still fighting space ships and energy mechs.

We fought Faceless Ones in Northrend during WotLK. They didn’t stand out at all from the undead thematics. Why? Because it’s all shadow magic.

It worth mentioning that Yogg’saron and the Lich King were supposed to be connected more than what we got and blizzard confirmed that in an interview back then.
Which is why Bolvar getting tortured was shown to us in Yogg’saron’s brain alongside all of the other Old God schemes. And it’s why Yogg’saron’s theme played when Bolvar was crowned.

However… the themes of death/void and lore have all evolved since then. Anything post cataclysm makes it pretty clear the two are completely separate.

Nearly 20 years of playing a race will do that to people.

That’s simply your bias showing. Again, you’re talking about a race who looks nothing like other WoW races. It’s nonsense to say a floating energy creature that uses energy weapons doesn’t look alien in a game with Orcs and Elves.

The Draenei look nothing like other WoW races that use energy weapons.

Besides, you’re using your knowledge of Ethereals that your definition of a "casual gamer" won’t know.

Looks more like a mummy to me than an alien.

Uh Yrel appears throughout Blizzard media. She also appeared in Hearthstone, and Heroes of the Storm.

So have Ethereals? They’ve also been in almost every other xpac in some way too. They’re in almost every city in the game, they show up all over the Void Elf quests & in their starting zone… they show up a lot and have been hinted to be villains in the future.

Rafaam is a popular recurring villain in Hearthstone too, and he had a model datamined in Dragonflight, but has yet to appear. Almost as if they’re going to be saving him for something big.

Uh Yrel. She’s WAY more popular than a bunch of Scarlet Crusaders. It’s not even close.

Lmao
If anything she’d be “popular” because of how much of a failure WoD was.

The only reason she was only mentioned after WoD was to give an excuse for the Mag’har to be added. Nothing more.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying that due to familiarity with the race, its not as "alien" as these guys;

https://blizzardwatch.com/wp-content..._Saraad_HS.jpg

They don't even have faces.

Sure Ethereal’s are “Alien” but not in the same way the goats are. With no context They look like ghost or Phantoms and most of there tech screams magic while goat tech is far more advance looking.

Like if you had an ethereal just hanging out in one of the classic ghost zones they wouldn’t be out of place and even there tech could be mistaken for things like magic ghost catchers, put a light forged and a battle mech any where and it’s going to stand out instantly.

[Cheezits]

I think Arrakoa and Ethereals would be a great set of races to come with Yrel, as they have the dueling Light/Void theme and can be androgynous races like Dracthyr.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think Arrakoa and Ethereals would be a great set of races to come with Yrel, as they have the dueling Light/Void theme and can be androgynous races like Dracthyr.

The Arrakoa were losing there light theme fast in Wod weren’t they? Half turning into the broken birds from TBC and the other half joining up with the legion to not lose there wings as well.

[Cheezits]

The Arrakoa were losing there light theme fast in Wod weren’t they? Half turning into the broken birds from TBC and the other half joining up with the legion to not lose there wings as well.

I think if they were playable they would be the uncorrupted form, as their animations are less complicated due to being upright.

[Raetary]

Unless you specifically mention that Ethereals are from off-world, the average non-lore indulgant player would absolutely just assume they come from Uldum or Tanaris or come out of Silithus.
Or are maybe related to mages and/or Dalaran in some way or another.

Azeroth is already a very thematically diverse place, and Ethereals and their tech don't stand out as much as you think you do.

Especially with them being literally everywhere because of transmog, and Hearthstone pushing Ethereal characters (looking at you Rafaam).

[Teriz]

I think Arrakoa and Ethereals would be a great set of races to come with Yrel, as they have the dueling Light/Void theme and can be androgynous races like Dracthyr.

Arrakoa and Ogres make more sense, since they are both races on Draenor.

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It worth mentioning that Yogg’saron and the Lich King were supposed to be connected more than what we got and blizzard confirmed that in an interview back then.

An old gods and faceless ones fitting right in thematically during an Undead/Death expansion is the point. Which is why a Void expansion will immediately be thought of as another expansion like Shadowlands.

Lmao
If anything she’d be “popular” because of how much of a failure WoD was.

The only reason she was only mentioned after WoD was to give an excuse for the Mag’har to be added. Nothing more.

She's popular because she's a female Draenei hero, which explains why she's appeared multiple times in different media since she was first introduced. Not just to pop up in BFA, but to be a Blizzard franchise character. Blizzard always wants to build off of their franchise characters.

Prime example;



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Sure Ethereal’s are “Alien” but not in the same way the goats are. With no context They look like ghost or Phantoms and most of there tech screams magic while goat tech is far more advance looking.

Like if you had an ethereal just hanging out in one of the classic ghost zones they wouldn’t be out of place and even there tech could be mistaken for things like magic ghost catchers, put a light forged and a battle mech any where and it’s going to stand out instantly.

You can have that opinion, the problem is that they're not going to be brought into an expansion with a ghost theme. They're going to be brought in during a void expansion, with plenty of space/cosmic stuff going on.

[Nightshade711]

An old gods and faceless ones fitting right in thematically during an Undead/Death expansion is the point. Which is why a Void expansion will immediately be thought of as another expansion like Shadowlands.

Weird, nobody ever got “Undeath/death” vibes from N’zoth & his faceless ones… or the Void stuff in Legion… or Abberus… etc etc.

You can have that opinion, the problem is that they're not going to be brought into an expansion with a ghost theme. They're going to be brought in during a void expansion, with plenty of space/cosmic stuff going on.

Which is exactly what’ll happen when you bring the time traveling holy space goats?
So I fail to see the point you’re trying to make here.

[Teriz]

Unless you specifically mention that Ethereals are from off-world, the average non-lore indulgant player would absolutely just assume they come from Uldum or Tanaris or come out of Silithus.
Or are maybe related to mages and/or Dalaran in some way or another.

Again, if you introduce them during a void expansion, you sort of have to make it a point that they're off-world alien characters.

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Weird, nobody ever got “Undeath/death” vibes from N’zoth & his faceless ones… or the Void stuff in Legion… or Abberus… etc etc.

Yeah, you can't make that assumption.

Which is exactly what’ll happen when you bring the time traveling holy space goats?
So I fail to see the point you’re trying to make here.

Space Goats (and Orcs) that players have been playing as for almost 20 years now, led by a character we've known for almost a decade?

It's astonishing that you can't see the difference here.

[Nightshade711]

Yeah, you can't make that assumption.

I guarantee you can’t find anyone except you saying that the void we see in any of my examples (N’zoth, Legion, Abberus) is connected to death magic or the shadowlands.

Space Goats that players have been playing as for almost 20 years now, led by a character we've known for almost a decade? It's astonishing that you can't see the difference here.

You’re still not explaining how Ethereals mean space/cosmic stuff when time traveling intergalactic space goats don’t.

[Nebron]

Not interested in a Light vs. Void expansion at all in the near future.

Give us Tel’Abim as a continent with Arabic and West Asia influences. Deserts, jungles, monastery’s, cities of brass, bustling market places and bazaar’s. Enemies such as Ifrit, Djinn, ghouls etc. Give it a MoP feel, grounded and exploring a new land. Bring in Captain Nightsquall who was mentioned this expansion, as well as his dread pirate fleet.

Or give us Avaloren as another archetypical fantasy world with a different spin as well as new races.

Keep things grounded please.

I love this idea sooooo much. I long for a place with aesthetics based on a real world cultures. MoP, as you have mentioned yourself, is a great analogy. Arabic vibes would be absolutely awesome. I think, personally, what I loved about Pandaria was it's exotic take on WoW - it's music, it's assets, it's inhabitants. Even the main theme was woven with "ancient philosophies" vibes and, let's say, finding "inner peace". That made possible for players to experiece more grounded themes. The whole idea of exploration of an ancient civilization, it's wonders and dark secrets - amazing feeling.

I think Dragonflight is trying to establish that "grounded" feeling again, creating, to a degree, a template upon which players' satisfaction is being measured and tested. And as far as I have seen it's pretty much successful in these terms.

I remember when Kyrian art was leaked before Shadowlands expansion was revealed, I was convinced they will go for the Greek culture for the entire expansion. Now I wish they went this path - pantheon of some powerful beings based on the greek pantheon, the River Styx counterpart as a central part of Shadowlands by which you enter 'the Maw' which basically could have been Hades. I'd love to see some major seasonal content feature revolving around "Olympic games". All the myths could have been so easily incorporated as side storylines there. Even "Oracle of Delphi" could have been such a nice addition to build up some speculation hype around 'prophecies'. But well, I guess it is what it is

[Teriz]

You’re still not explaining how Ethereals mean space/cosmic stuff when time traveling intergalactic space goats don’t.

Again, a void expansion is full of cosmic space stuff by default, with a strong possibility of us going off world to deal with the threat.

A Yrel invasion expansion would more likely remain entirely on Azeroth since Draenor is likely dead or destroyed. We also have Draenei as playable races, and Yrel is a known character.

[Nightshade711]

Again, a void expansion is full of cosmic space stuff by default, with a strong possibility of us going off world to deal with the threat. A Yrel invasion expansion would more likely remain entirely on Azeroth since Draenor is likely dead or destroyed.

There’s nothing saying that a void (Ethereal) invasion expansion would be so wildly different than a light (Yrel) invasion expansion.

We’d have the same possibility of fighting known villains like Rafaam on Azeroth as Yrel (who in all media outside of that 20-30 minute quest in BfA has been a hero)

Though… no matter if we have a light or void expansion there would be cosmic stuff, as just a “ok let’s only fight Yrel/Rafaam on Azeroth” wouldn’t be nearly enough substance for an entire expansion.

For either expansion idea we’d certainly be going to some cosmic realm or some other planet.

[Teriz]

There’s nothing saying that a void (Ethereal) invasion expansion would be so wildly different than a light (Yrel) invasion expansion.

We’d have the same possibility of fighting known villains like Rafaam on Azeroth as Yrel (who in all media outside of that 20-30 minute quest in BfA has been a hero)

Rafaam? Rafaam is just a greedy archeologist looking to get rich off of artifacts. He isn't connected to the Void in that fashion, least not to the point where you can base an expansion around him. He's mainly a villain for the league of explorers.

Yrel on the other hand leads a genocidal army of fanatical light worshippers looking to convert everyone to the light (and kill them if they refuse).

It's fairly obvious which one is the more likely villain.

No matter if we have a light or void expansion there would be cosmic stuff, as just a “ok let’s only fight Yrel/Rafaam on Azeroth” wouldn’t be nearly enough substance for an entire expansion.

For either expansion idea we’d certainly be going to some cosmic realm or some other planet.

Again, a Void expansion would not be contained on Azeroth. Not only would any viable Void threat be coming from outside of Azeroth since the major Old Gods are "dead", but having Ethereals as a playable race all but assures you're not staying on Azeroth for that expansion.

[Nightshade711]

Rafaam? Rafaam is just a greedy archeologist looking to get rich off of artifacts. He isn't connected to the Void in that fashion, least not to the point where you can base an expansion around him. He's mainly a villain for the league of explorers.

Yrel on the other hand leads a genocidal army of fanatical light worshippers looking to convert everyone to the light or kill them.
It's fairly obvious which one is the more likely villain.

Rafaam who was datamined with a void ethereal model, yes.
(Though it is listed as “temp” so maybe it’s not a final version of his model. https://www.wowhead.com/npc=190573/temp-dnt)

Again, Yrel has only shown up as a villain for maybe 30 minutes in total in all of blizzard media? Versus someone like Rafaam who has been a popular recurring villain throughout Hearthstone…

Again, a Void expansion would not be contained on Azeroth. Not only would any viable Void threat be coming from outside of Azeroth since the major Old Gods are "dead", but having Ethereals as a playable race all but assures you're not staying on Azeroth for that expansion.

Sure, I’m not arguing that a void expansion would be contained purely on Azeroth. But I don’t think you even read anything I said just went full on monkey typewriter.

I said a light expansion wouldn’t be contained on Azeroth.

No matter if we have a light or void expansion there would be cosmic stuff, as just a “ok let’s only fight Yrel/Rafaam on Azeroth” wouldn’t be nearly enough substance for an entire expansion.

For either expansion idea we’d certainly be going to some cosmic realm or some other planet.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You can have that opinion, the problem is that they're not going to be brought into an expansion with a ghost theme. They're going to be brought in during a void expansion, with plenty of space/cosmic stuff going on.

I was taking about the normal ones but as of legion they would also be perfectly inline with other void spawn so would be fine for a void expan.

[Nightshade711]

I was taking about the normal ones but as of legion they would also be perfectly inline with other void spawn so would be fine for a void expan.

I could see Ethereal factions like the Protectorate or Consortium continue to be used as an opposing force to those void Ethereals in a possible future void expansion. Hell they could be the “racial faction” for playable Ethereals too.

I was disappointed a little when they didn’t pop up anywhere in Legion, but they probably didn’t have the time or resources to make two different types of Ethereal models.

[Teriz]

Rafaam who was datamined with a void ethereal model, yes.

Again, Yrel has only shown up as a villain for maybe 30 minutes in total in all of blizzard media? Versus someone like Rafaam who has been a popular recurring villain throughout Hearthstone…

Is there any lore connecting Rafaam to Void lords or the void in general?

Sure, I’m not arguing that a void expansion would be contained purely on Azeroth. But I don’t think you even read anything I said just went full on monkey typewriter.

I said a light expansion wouldn’t be contained on Azeroth.

Where else can it go? We're not going to Draenor. If Yrel, Arrakoa and Ogres are fleeing it, there's nothing left there to defend.

Also we shouldn't forget that Blizzard can bring back this guy as well;



To lead the Arrakoa and Ogres out of Draenor, and to warn us of Yrel's impending invasion.

[Nightshade711]

Where else can it go? We're not going to Draenor. If Yrel, Arrakoa and Ogres are fleeing it, there's nothing left there to defend.

Where would the void expansion go that a light expansion wouldn’t?

Also we shouldn't forget that Blizzard can bring back this guy as well;

To lead the Arrakoa and Ogres out of Draenor, and to warn us of Yrel's impending invasion.

Nah he’s dead.
In the span of 2 years (for us), around 30ish years passed on Draenor and Grommash was an old man when we last saw him.
Since then, 6-7 years have passed for us, so that’s an additional 90-105 years on Draenor… even if he survived fighting Yrel he’s dead of old age by now.

(Also how would Grommash be able to leave Draenor? Especially before the Draenei who have flying mechs and space ships)

[Teriz]

Where would the void expansion go that a light expansion wouldn’t?

To the void where the void lords are located, or Ka'resh before it was devoured.

Nah he’s dead.
In the span of 2 years (for us), around 30ish years passed on Draenor and Grommash was an old man when we last saw him.
Since then, 6-7 years have passed for us, so that’s an additional 90-105 years on Draenor… even if he survived fighting Yrel he’s dead of old age by now.

(Also how would Grommash be able to leave Draenor? Especially before the Draenei who have flying mechs and space ships)

We're talking about time travel and magic. That's the easiest part to work around. The Hellscream that arrives on MU Azeroth could only be a few years older than the version we encountered in BFA.