The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

Yes, the Scepter book said "she would be his" but the entire basis of Legion was still an apocalypse plot per every other word of the Legion's in the same expansion. Sargeras can be possessive and also destructive, he's generally considered fucking insane by his kin. That's if we're even taking the artifact research as completely accurate considering it isn't Doylist. It's order hall researchers.

Again, if we work backwards from the concept of us not stopping the other plans intended, Azeroth would have already been fucked on a planetary level and not just a soul.

Chronicle on the other hand was at one time intended to be and released almost simultaneously with Legion. A whole 5 month gap.

Argus isn't headcanon, it's an immutable fact. It's the only established exception outside the Burning Crusade's intentions. Turaylon explicitly states they're using the soul for regeneration. Other fucked up worlds exist but they're generally staging grounds for armies, none to our knowledge use world souls.

I'm not mad, it's par for the course for Blizzard writing. Sargeras had barely any time to do anything, let alone know for certain where he was stabbing. He almost killed the planet already. A few seconds more and he would have. And even then, if you wanna go with the corruption angle, the sword was indeed corrupting the land before we sacrificed the artifacts - which infers he was just aiming at the world soul. Nothing more complex than that.

If this wasn't just an easy mystery box to open, it would've been easy for Thrall to say "I heard a voice call out. Could it be Azeroth...?" at the Amirdrassil epilogue or something. Instead they're burying the lede and people are overanalyzing as always.

For that matter, if Sargeras is just the green pallete swap of the Jailer and the Void and has the same intentions, does nobody think that's kind of boring? Instead of a scared and nihilistic madman that would wipe everything to avoid a bad fate, he just has the same plan as every other villain? Chronicle would be even more worthless, and the Titans would just be stupid and wrong if it's their POV.

[Makorus]

Yes, the Scepter book said "she would be his" but the entire basis of Legion was still an apocalypse plot per every other word of the Legion's in the same expansion. Sargeras can be possessive and also destructive, he's generally considered fucking insane by his kin. That's if we're even taking the artifact research as completely accurate considering it isn't Doylist. It's order hall researchers.

Again, if we work backwards from the concept of us not stopping the other plans intended, Azeroth would have already been fucked on a planetary level and not just a soul.

Chronicle on the other hand was at one time intended to be and released almost simultaneously with Legion. A whole 5 month gap.

Argus isn't headcanon, it's an immutable fact. It's the only established exception outside the Burning Crusade's intentions. Turaylon explicitly states they're using the soul for regeneration. Other fucked up worlds exist but they're generally staging grounds for armies, none to our knowledge use world souls.

I'm not mad, it's par for the course for Blizzard writing. Sargeras had barely any time to do anything, let alone know for certain where he was stabbing. He almost killed the planet already. A few seconds more and he would have. And even then, if you wanna go with the corruption angle, the sword was indeed corrupting the land before we sacrificed the artifacts - which infers he was just aiming at the world soul. Nothing more complex than that.

If this wasn't just an easy mystery box to open, it would've been easy for Thrall to say "I heard a voice call out. Could it be Azeroth...?" at the Amirdrassil epilogue or something. Instead they're burying the lede and people are overanalyzing as always.

For that matter, if Sargeras is just the green pallete swap of the Jailer and the Void and has the same intentions, does nobody think that's kind of boring? Instead of a scared and nihilistic madman that would wipe everything to avoid a bad fate, he just has the same plan as every other villain? Chronicle would be even more worthless, and the Titans would just be stupid and wrong if it's their POV.

Once again, tell me where it's stated that the Legion wants to destroy the planet Azeroth in Legion?

Because surely, the invasion part would be entirely pointless then? And no, sorry, Imp #63 saying "Azeroth will burn!" as if some random grunts know the MO is not an argument.

You are getting upset over something that is just in your head. We don't know the context of what you are getting upset over. Take a step back.

[Vakir]

You are getting upset over something that is just in your head. We don't know the context of what you are getting upset over. Take a step back.

I'm not upset, though. This is how Blizzard tells stories. I've sat through this every time. What mysterious reason was Teldrassil burned? Oh. What's this Jailer guy about? He must be deeper than that. Oh. Who's the final boss of BFA?!?! It's a MYSTERY, WHAT IF WE WIPE EACH OTHER OUT---its N'Zoth ya nerds.

It's always the simplest answer.

I get that there's contradictions in this but Chronicle remains canon even if it's from the POV of the Titans.

So how did that conversation go at Nihilam then? The entire reason they told him about Azeroth in the first place was to instill hope that she would be powerful enough to confront the Void. Sargeras killed the Pantheon there because he was "unmoved" and his entire mission was to wipe it out.

So if he was going to just corrupt world souls all willy nilly as his intent in the first place, why was any of that happening and why would they give him that information on a silver platter?

Chronicle is still canon, even if it's from the POV of the Titans. They'd have enough information to properly convey this, likely the most reliable to hear from. Blizzard is no stranger to contradictions, but if it's between the thing originally intended to codify the lore and a tertiary piece of text a few sentences long for one spec of one class, written in-universe by some scholars who---I mean how the fuck would they even get that info?!---I'm gonna go with Chronicle. We're not even talking random imps here either, we're talking Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, too.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Light crystal attracted C'Thun to land by it, but that's it. The spot itself was still random.

Given the chronicles map it seems more likely that the landmass wouldn’t have been apart of ancient Kalimdor as otherwise it would be about where the dread waste are.

[Dracullus]

So, is anyone else excited to finally see Tel'Abim in 10.2.6?

Tel'Abim fits a lot more for 11.1. It's relatively close to Khaz Algar and would be perfect break from underground themes.

[Cheezits]

Tel'Abim fits a lot more for 11.1. It's relatively close to Khaz Algar and would be perfect break from underground themes.

I think Undermine is a better fit, while still being semi-underground.

Has Tel'abim ever been confirmed to be separate from Plunder Isle, or Hiji?

[Woggmer]

I think Undermine is a better fit, while still being semi-underground.

Has Tel'abim ever been confirmed to be separate from Plunder Isle, or Hiji?

Plunder Isle according to sources, should be west of Stranglethorn in the South Seas (same goes for Hiji but that's only stuff related to the RPG)
Tel'Abim is closer to Kalimdor.

Old South Seas map where Tel'Abim and Plunder are located.

Spoiler: 

Here's the map from the Chronicles.

Spoiler: 

However, in this screenshot from the Blizzcon panel.. They show the location of where this is at. According to this, Tel'Abim should be a little further north than where we'll be going.

Spoiler: 

[Kiivar86]

In regards to the location of the Chamber of the Heart, Magni says in the Heart of Azeroth quest, which is when you meet Magni at the camp in Silithus, "Far below us lies an ancient titan vault called the Chamber of Heart".

So yes it does seem to be somewhere below Silithus.

Though I suppose when you go down far enough everythings kinda beneath everything anyway in a sense. Especially when a planet sized sword is jammed into it.

[Eldryth]

We haven't seen Sargeras since Legion. So, yeah?



That's simply not true. The Legion's entire mission statement including since Legion is to destroy the universe's life. The point was he left nothing to chance. That's why the Legion cackles generically about how ruin is coming and blah blah blah.

Argus is the one exception because he wanted to make a revival battery. Did you really think that

1. Every single planet ever that he destroyed was corrupted but not enough to make a Void Titan or have a soul at all

2. He only ever stumbled on ONE world soul besides Azeroth untouched that allowed him to warp it

and

3. Azeroth is somehow a personal conquest for him despite it being apparently a normal Tuesday for him to run across a corrupted world?

Because that's a lot of aligning contrivances.

Anduin, Jaina, and Thrall are confused and Thrall says the "aimed at SOMETHING" line because they're clumsily catching up viewers on shit that came out in a book 7 years ago, and then was resolved awkwardly 3 expansions ago that was narratively helmed by a sex pest.

Blizzard doesn't have enough respect for their audience to make it more complicated than that and Sargeras had a few seconds to stab a spot in a moment of rage and otherwise would have gone deeper and caused more damage - again, Azeroth herself was already in critical condition. Nothing about that moment reflected some kind of grand scheme or intelligence.

In fact, if the Titans didn't yoink him in the first place, the visual language was that Sargeras was going to consume the planet entirely as a thick green fog of nihilism.

The lack of media literacy is staggering.

Argus wasn't an exception- it was a big reveal in 7.3 (as you said, the last time we heard from Sargeras) that Sargeras was trying to corrupt all the known Titans. It was a key point in Antorus- we had to fight a corrupted Aggramar because of it, Eonar was being hunted for it, and the rest of the Pantheon was actively being tortured and corrupted by the Coven before we fought them. We don't have a clear answer on what he wanted to do with Azeroth yet, but if he really planned to destroy her outright rather than controlling her, that would make her the exception.

I do think the stab was meant to kill her in the end, but I think that was more of a desperate contingency rather than the plan all along- even if he wanted to control her, once it became clear that he had lost and was going to be imprisoned, I think he would have preferred destroying her over letting her continue to exist outside his control. After all, if that cutscene is any indication, he could have just destroyed Azeroth himself at any time, at least towards the end of Legion. His cloud didn't just arrive at the end, so he presumably chose not to simply attack himself. Why hold back, unless he wanted to preserve her in some form?

[Makabreska]

Interesting stuff found on 10.2.5 PTR

[Makorus]

Interesting stuff found on 10.2.5 PTR

I wonder what that will be used for.

Did they say we would have Dragonriding from the get-go in TWW?

If so, that might be for leveling, to let us explore the zones, and then we get Dynamic Flying. I just don't see how else it would be relevant?

Also, thank god there is gonna be a way for quicker travel in non-flying zones. Doing anything on Timeless Isle suckksss

[Nymrohd]

I wonder what that will be used for.

Did they say we would have Dragonriding from the get-go in TWW?

If so, that might be for leveling, to let us explore the zones, and then we get Dynamic Flying. I just don't see how else it would be relevant?

Also, thank god there is gonna be a way for quicker travel in non-flying zones. Doing anything on Timeless Isle suckksss

It could be relevant and quite transformative for Battlegrounds.

[Vaedan]

Maybe Broken will migrate to Azeroth? The remaining orcs of Outland already will as per the orc heritage quest.
Sabellian and his black dragons as well as the Nether drakes have already done so
Seems like Outland is being abandoned for good.

I think it is possible that remaining Scryers alongside Shattari (and Aldor) will leave Outland during Midnight, as they can possibly reinforce Quel'thalas and forces of the Light in fight against Void.

[Dracullus]

I wonder what that will be used for.

Did they say we would have Dragonriding from the get-go in TWW?

If so, that might be for leveling, to let us explore the zones, and then we get Dynamic Flying. I just don't see how else it would be relevant?

Also, thank god there is gonna be a way for quicker travel in non-flying zones. Doing anything on Timeless Isle suckksss

They said there are some surprises left in DF patches. Ground dynamic is natural progression of new flying system since they are taking it from GW2 anyway, so lack of it in TWW features was strange.

[Makabreska]

They said there are some surprises left in DF patches. Ground dynamic is natural progression of new flying system since they are taking it from GW2 anyway, so lack of it in TWW features was strange.

Ground mounts are barely used anyway. While defo good addition, I don't see it making them more used. Unless Blizz locks flying again, on launch or in certain zones.

[Makorus]

They said there are some surprises left in DF patches. Ground dynamic is natural progression of new flying system since they are taking it from GW2 anyway, so lack of it in TWW features was strange.

I don't see how Ground dynamic would be a progression in WoW.

Ground movement works in GW2 because the Raptor/Jackal/obviously Roller Beetle is quicker than the Drake and the Gryphon has the issue of needing a point to launch off from.

Meanwhile, Dynamic Flight in WoW would be objectively better than any GW2 mount, and it's very hard to implement a ground mount that complements it. Because if you make it faster than flying in terms of raw speed, you run into the problem of it being near enough uncontrollable, as well with the fact that it will get stuck on the tiniest bit of geometry.

It could be relevant and quite transformative for Battlegrounds.

Very good point, actually.

[Valysar]

It could be relevant and quite transformative for Battlegrounds.

That's why it'll be disabled in BG.

[Raetary]

We are not guaranteed that every future patch/expansion zone is gonna have flying available.
Dynamic ground mounts would be pretty welcome for that.

It also allows Blizz to create content around it, like races or dungeon/raid mechanics.

[Nymrohd]

That's why it'll be disabled in BG.

Probably. But it would be interesting to try it.

[Vakir]

Argus wasn't an exception- it was a big reveal in 7.3 (as you said, the last time we heard from Sargeras) that Sargeras was trying to corrupt all the known Titans. It was a key point in Antorus- we had to fight a corrupted Aggramar because of it, Eonar was being hunted for it, and the rest of the Pantheon was actively being tortured and corrupted by the Coven before we fought them. We don't have a clear answer on what he wanted to do with Azeroth yet, but if he really planned to destroy her outright rather than controlling her, that would make her the exception.

I do think the stab was meant to kill her in the end, but I think that was more of a desperate contingency rather than the plan all along- even if he wanted to control her, once it became clear that he had lost and was going to be imprisoned, I think he would have preferred destroying her over letting her continue to exist outside his control. After all, if that cutscene is any indication, he could have just destroyed Azeroth himself at any time, at least towards the end of Legion. His cloud didn't just arrive at the end, so he presumably chose not to simply attack himself. Why hold back, unless he wanted to preserve her in some form?

Said Titans were already born. We're talking about the nascent World Soul(s). According to Chronicle, he wasn't even aware that their spirits survived thanks to Norgannon so it's entirely possible it was a newer development. Argus is the only soul we know of that he corrupted and, let's be for real - from a Doylist POV it was just so we could have a boss to fight in the form of the Unmaker because Sargeras was probably not someone they wanted us to fight yet.

Seriously, the entire reason Azeroth is THE LAST TITAN is because Sargeras ostensibly fucked up all the other souls. He destroyed anything that could've been left to chance.

Regardless of them changing Sargeras' entire ethos, though, if the stab was a desperate contingency, it still reinforces my main point, though. "That sword was aimed at something" has an easy answer. Just like "who's talking to us" has an easy answer.

That's all this was ever about. Not that Sargeras might have an evolved (and to me, boring, as now identical to the other Big Bads) new set of goals for the universe, just that people are wildly overthinking a basic premise.

Considering said cloud appears at a time where the characters declare it is "too late," I'm gonna go on a limb and say that Sargeras required some time to even get to that point where he could consume the planet, considering the fog grows through the Antorus raid skybox.