The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

Except Sargeras explicitly wasn't trying to destroy Azeroth, and do the opposite?

Also, the implication that Thrall or Anduin, both characters who were part of BfA and Shadowlands, knew nothing of... the entire A plot of BfA is bonkers. Like, Azerite literally was a thing that everybody was craving LMAO. You think the former Warchief of the Horde or the Leader of the Alliance isn't gonna ask more than "Uh, so what is going on with the planet?"

It doesn't make sense now because... we do not have the information that you are complaining is non-sensical?

Sargeras' entire schtick up to now has been to destroy all worlds in a nihilistic crusade to prevent a Void Titan, what the hell are you talking about?

Why yes, it is a ridiculous implication that they wouldn't know. It's a good thing that WoW has never been known to have giant gaps in their storytelling of that size of I'd sure be worried.

We have the information that the World Shaman, a close associate of Magni, and one of the most brilliant minds of her generation are all confounded by a mysterious female voice accompanying a shining orb in the darkness that started gabbing at the same exact time as Amirdrassil sprouting which was stated to be a gift from Azeroth herself.

Even if it turns out they're aware of the World Soul as a whole, there's enough evidence the stupid pills have been consumed. Blizzard is scared of continuity that doesn't supply a lot of backwards exposition to newcomers so we're gonna get that and Sargeras' actions regurgitated for them.

This is literally the issue. It's become common across all Fandoms to call every change in story someone doesn't like a retcon. Like the Draenei thing was a hard retcon and nobody cares now. Pretending anything that changed in SL did any more damage than retconning Sargeras/Eredar/Draenei is just being hyperbolic.

Hard disagree. The Eredar change opened up lots of interesting story options and the entire Triumvirate dynamic rather than have TWO inherently evil leader level demon species (until they changed the Nathrezeim too).

SL did immediate harm by discrediting almost everything that wasn't of the Shadowlands and Zovaal.

Hard agree on the rest, the Wrathgate and the entirety of the Lich King's """arc""" are overrated dreck.

[Viridiel]

I do think the Occam's razor interpretation of the Sargeras sword stuff is that he was aiming for the Chamber of the Heart (or another titan facility housing Azeroth's soul), but he didn't reach it. The reason the whispers disappeared is because the sword purged the remaining Void essence in Silithus. It's established that Fel is capable of either overriding Void or self-annihilating with it, and it's established that he almost destroyed the Chamber of the Heart but didn't. If he destroyed another titan facility, we would've heard about it from Magni or someone else, and if he destroyed something important to the Void, we would've heard about it from Xal'atath or N'zoth.

I imagine he was aiming for a titan facility where Azeroth's worldsoul is kept (Uldaz?), and Xal'atath will do something with the sword to free Azeroth's worldsoul and/or blast it with Void energy.

[Nymrohd]

Considering the Chamber of Heart is located beneath Silithus, and considering we're accessing the heart of Azeroth VIA Khaz'algar, which is by Silithus...

I imagine Silithus/Khaz'algar is where Azeroths World Soul is most easily accessed. Would explain why Sargeras' blade was poisoning the planet after the stabbing.

- - - Updated - - -

Not everything requires a complex answer.

Is the Chamber located there?
That camp is there in order to support the druids and shaman trying to heal the wound. We meet Magni there and he places a teleporter. He doesn't open up a staircase or anything, he places a teleporter. We have a titan teleporter in the next zone that transports you to Northrend. Magni was accessing the Chamber of the Heart through teleportation and he used that spot because that's where he was.

I mean it is an obvious assumption but there is no evidence to it just conservation of detail. For all we know, the Chamber could be on the other side of the planet.

[Frood]

So, is anyone else excited to finally see Tel'Abim in 10.2.6?

[Nymrohd]

Fair. I just always assumed it cause of Sargeras' sword placement, N'Zoth invading both Pandaria and Uldum (both are conveniently by Khaz'algar and whatnot), the Chamber of Heart being damaged early in the expac (likely by Sargeras' blade), etc.

Oh I agree it makes some sort of sense (again, conservation of detail is powerful in storytelling). I am just saying that we cannot actually know where the Chamber is. I had a fan expansion concept where Magni would call us to the Heart Chamber, the door would open up and we would be in the middle of the ocean on the far side of Azeroth surrounded by the floating Dragon Isles. Because it really could be anywhere (and that would make for a cool reveal cinematic).

Maybe what Sargeras is attacking is that Light crystal above Hallowfall. Maybe the Old Gods CHOSE were to set root and there is a reason C'thun picked that spot. We'll find out sometime this year I guess

[huth]

Oh I agree it makes some sort of sense (again, conservation of detail is powerful in storytelling). I am just saying that we cannot actually know where the Chamber is. I had a fan expansion concept where Magni would call us to the Heart Chamber, the door would open up and we would be in the middle of the ocean on the far side of Azeroth surrounded by the floating Dragon Isles. Because it really could be anywhere (and that would make for a cool reveal cinematic).

Maybe what Sargeras is attacking is that Light crystal above Hallowfall. Maybe the Old Gods CHOSE were to set root and there is a reason C'thun picked that spot. We'll find out sometime this year I guess

No, it cannot be there in particular. While it doesn't have to be directly beneath the sword, it was damaged when Sargeras drove it in, so it has to at the very least be underground and probably somewhere in the vincinity of Silithus.

[Nymrohd]

No, it cannot be there in particular. While it doesn't have to be directly beneath the sword, it was damaged when Sargeras drove it in, so it has to at the very least be underground and probably somewhere in the vincinity of Silithus.

Given that we had Azerite bleeding all over the planet, the entire planet was damaged.

[Alanar]

So, is anyone else excited to finally see Tel'Abim in 10.2.6?

I hate bananas so, no.

[Makorus]

The only other people that have been around The Wound were either the Earthen Ring, a few members of the Cenarion Circle (including Hamuul Runetotem), Magni, and a bunch of goblin Azerite tycoons trying to expedite this stuff like oil.

And the only people that ever actually went into the Chamber of Heart itself was Magni, the player, and the Aspects... while Anduin was busy with a war and Thrall was basically retired on Outland until Saurfang had to drag him back because of how bad things gotten.
(There's also this one bit of nugget of info that everyone doesn't know about (or they did and forgot) The Chamber of Heart was created by Archaedas. Knowledge of its existence was heavily restricted to protect the world-soul; it was unknown even to Highkeeper Ra, who apparently did not have the sigma-level clearance required. Source. )

Not to mention that most people didn't treat Azerite like it was the life blood of Azeroth but has a new form of resource that works as a miracle tonic and volatile substance that is more potent than gunpowder.

So literally every character except for Magni, the player, and the Aspects didn't know this whole time that Azeroth is a living planet that can talk. And even though Magni claims to speak for Azeroth, NOT ONCE... NOT EVEN ONCE DID HE TRY TO STOP PEOPLE FROM USING AZERITE IN THE WAR! (Then again, even if he did it wouldn't matter much because one side would've taken more Azerite and turn it into an arms race thanks to Gallywix and the Venture Co. trying to profiteer from it.)


Bottom line: We (the player) are ten steps ahead of everyone else in the story and now we have to get them up to speed. And the Azerite plot with Magni isn't the A plot... it's the D plot of the story. The A plot being the War, B plot being N'zoth's awakening, and C plot being Mechagon.

Wrathion LITERALLY becomes an advisor to Anduin in 8.3, and Wrathion is LITERALLY in the Heart Chamber speaking to MOTHER and learning essentially everything about Azeroth.

I am not saying that every single person on Azeroth has to know that the planet is actually an egg, however, the suspension of disbelief required to accept that Thrall and Anduin (closest friend of Wrathion?????????) didn't know is outright a joke.

Also, in no way is Azeroth a "D" plot when it is the only thing relevant throughout the entire expansion (Azerite in 8.0/Azerite being used to release N'zoth in 8.2/Azeroth and Halls of Origination and everything used to defeat N'zoth).

Sargeras' entire schtick up to now has been to destroy all worlds in a nihilistic crusade to prevent a Void Titan, what the hell are you talking about?

Hasn't really been a thing since Legion.

Soon after the War of the Ancients, Sargeras had a vision: the Well of Eternity imploded once again, but this time, it dragged him down to the very core of Azeroth. He was there for only an instant, but in that moment, he saw Azeroth's slumbering world-soul--and in that moment, the world-soul opened one eye and gazed at the Dark Titan. He was enraptured.

Since then, the eye of Azeroth's world-soul has not been far from his thoughts. He commanded the eredar who forged the scepter to crown it with that lone, wondrous orb. Next to it, the eredar placed two nathrezim wings, a testament to Sargeras's conception of the world-soul: corrupted, demonic, and most importantly, his.

All the worlds he destroyed were already void-corrupted and that's why he destroyed them. He would absolutely claim "pure" souls. I mean, hell, that's what he did with Argus.

[Vakir]

l
Hasn't really been a thing since Legion.

We haven't seen Sargeras since Legion. So, yeah?

All the worlds he destroyed were already void-corrupted and that's why he destroyed them. He would absolutely claim "pure" souls. I mean, hell, that's what he did with Argus.

That's simply not true. The Legion's entire mission statement including since Legion is to destroy the universe's life. The point was he left nothing to chance. That's why the Legion cackles generically about how ruin is coming and blah blah blah.

Argus is the one exception because he wanted to make a revival battery. Did you really think that

1. Every single planet ever that he destroyed was corrupted but not enough to make a Void Titan or have a soul at all

2. He only ever stumbled on ONE world soul besides Azeroth untouched that allowed him to warp it

and

3. Azeroth is somehow a personal conquest for him despite it being apparently a normal Tuesday for him to run across a corrupted world?

Because that's a lot of aligning contrivances.

Anduin, Jaina, and Thrall are confused and Thrall says the "aimed at SOMETHING" line because they're clumsily catching up viewers on shit that came out in a book 7 years ago, and then was resolved awkwardly 3 expansions ago that was narratively helmed by a sex pest.

Blizzard doesn't have enough respect for their audience to make it more complicated than that and Sargeras had a few seconds to stab a spot in a moment of rage and otherwise would have gone deeper and caused more damage - again, Azeroth herself was already in critical condition. Nothing about that moment reflected some kind of grand scheme or intelligence.

In fact, if the Titans didn't yoink him in the first place, the visual language was that Sargeras was going to consume the planet entirely as a thick green fog of nihilism.

The lack of media literacy is staggering.

[Makorus]

There's literally a book in Legion telling us that Sargeras is going to claim and corrupt Azeroth and seems to be mesmerized by it, if not in love, and you are just ignoring it because you wanna get upset at... something? Meanwhile you spout headcanon like "Oh, all the Legion wants to do is destroy!" and "Argus was different somehow!"

Get a grip.

[Vakir]

Yes, the Scepter book said "she would be his" but the entire basis of Legion was still an apocalypse plot per every other word of the Legion's in the same expansion. Sargeras can be possessive and also destructive, he's generally considered fucking insane by his kin. That's if we're even taking the artifact research as completely accurate considering it isn't Doylist. It's order hall researchers.

Again, if we work backwards from the concept of us not stopping the other plans intended, Azeroth would have already been fucked on a planetary level and not just a soul.

Chronicle on the other hand was at one time intended to be and released almost simultaneously with Legion. A whole 5 month gap.

Argus isn't headcanon, it's an immutable fact. It's the only established exception outside the Burning Crusade's intentions. Turaylon explicitly states they're using the soul for regeneration. Other fucked up worlds exist but they're generally staging grounds for armies, none to our knowledge use world souls.

I'm not mad, it's par for the course for Blizzard writing. Sargeras had barely any time to do anything, let alone know for certain where he was stabbing. He almost killed the planet already. A few seconds more and he would have. And even then, if you wanna go with the corruption angle, the sword was indeed corrupting the land before we sacrificed the artifacts - which infers he was just aiming at the world soul. Nothing more complex than that.

If this wasn't just an easy mystery box to open, it would've been easy for Thrall to say "I heard a voice call out. Could it be Azeroth...?" at the Amirdrassil epilogue or something. Instead they're burying the lede and people are overanalyzing as always.

For that matter, if Sargeras is just the green pallete swap of the Jailer and the Void and has the same intentions, does nobody think that's kind of boring? Instead of a scared and nihilistic madman that would wipe everything to avoid a bad fate, he just has the same plan as every other villain? Chronicle would be even more worthless, and the Titans would just be stupid and wrong if it's their POV.

[Makorus]

Yes, the Scepter book said "she would be his" but the entire basis of Legion was still an apocalypse plot per every other word of the Legion's in the same expansion. Sargeras can be possessive and also destructive, he's generally considered fucking insane by his kin. That's if we're even taking the artifact research as completely accurate considering it isn't Doylist. It's order hall researchers.

Again, if we work backwards from the concept of us not stopping the other plans intended, Azeroth would have already been fucked on a planetary level and not just a soul.

Chronicle on the other hand was at one time intended to be and released almost simultaneously with Legion. A whole 5 month gap.

Argus isn't headcanon, it's an immutable fact. It's the only established exception outside the Burning Crusade's intentions. Turaylon explicitly states they're using the soul for regeneration. Other fucked up worlds exist but they're generally staging grounds for armies, none to our knowledge use world souls.

I'm not mad, it's par for the course for Blizzard writing. Sargeras had barely any time to do anything, let alone know for certain where he was stabbing. He almost killed the planet already. A few seconds more and he would have. And even then, if you wanna go with the corruption angle, the sword was indeed corrupting the land before we sacrificed the artifacts - which infers he was just aiming at the world soul. Nothing more complex than that.

If this wasn't just an easy mystery box to open, it would've been easy for Thrall to say "I heard a voice call out. Could it be Azeroth...?" at the Amirdrassil epilogue or something. Instead they're burying the lede and people are overanalyzing as always.

For that matter, if Sargeras is just the green pallete swap of the Jailer and the Void and has the same intentions, does nobody think that's kind of boring? Instead of a scared and nihilistic madman that would wipe everything to avoid a bad fate, he just has the same plan as every other villain? Chronicle would be even more worthless, and the Titans would just be stupid and wrong if it's their POV.

Once again, tell me where it's stated that the Legion wants to destroy the planet Azeroth in Legion?

Because surely, the invasion part would be entirely pointless then? And no, sorry, Imp #63 saying "Azeroth will burn!" as if some random grunts know the MO is not an argument.

You are getting upset over something that is just in your head. We don't know the context of what you are getting upset over. Take a step back.

[Vakir]

You are getting upset over something that is just in your head. We don't know the context of what you are getting upset over. Take a step back.

I'm not upset, though. This is how Blizzard tells stories. I've sat through this every time. What mysterious reason was Teldrassil burned? Oh. What's this Jailer guy about? He must be deeper than that. Oh. Who's the final boss of BFA?!?! It's a MYSTERY, WHAT IF WE WIPE EACH OTHER OUT---its N'Zoth ya nerds.

It's always the simplest answer.

I get that there's contradictions in this but Chronicle remains canon even if it's from the POV of the Titans.

So how did that conversation go at Nihilam then? The entire reason they told him about Azeroth in the first place was to instill hope that she would be powerful enough to confront the Void. Sargeras killed the Pantheon there because he was "unmoved" and his entire mission was to wipe it out.

So if he was going to just corrupt world souls all willy nilly as his intent in the first place, why was any of that happening and why would they give him that information on a silver platter?

Chronicle is still canon, even if it's from the POV of the Titans. They'd have enough information to properly convey this, likely the most reliable to hear from. Blizzard is no stranger to contradictions, but if it's between the thing originally intended to codify the lore and a tertiary piece of text a few sentences long for one spec of one class, written in-universe by some scholars who---I mean how the fuck would they even get that info?!---I'm gonna go with Chronicle. We're not even talking random imps here either, we're talking Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, too.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Light crystal attracted C'Thun to land by it, but that's it. The spot itself was still random.

Given the chronicles map it seems more likely that the landmass wouldn’t have been apart of ancient Kalimdor as otherwise it would be about where the dread waste are.

[Dracullus]

So, is anyone else excited to finally see Tel'Abim in 10.2.6?

Tel'Abim fits a lot more for 11.1. It's relatively close to Khaz Algar and would be perfect break from underground themes.

[Cheezits]

Tel'Abim fits a lot more for 11.1. It's relatively close to Khaz Algar and would be perfect break from underground themes.

I think Undermine is a better fit, while still being semi-underground.

Has Tel'abim ever been confirmed to be separate from Plunder Isle, or Hiji?

[Woggmer]

I think Undermine is a better fit, while still being semi-underground.

Has Tel'abim ever been confirmed to be separate from Plunder Isle, or Hiji?

Plunder Isle according to sources, should be west of Stranglethorn in the South Seas (same goes for Hiji but that's only stuff related to the RPG)
Tel'Abim is closer to Kalimdor.

Old South Seas map where Tel'Abim and Plunder are located.

Spoiler: 

Here's the map from the Chronicles.

Spoiler: 

However, in this screenshot from the Blizzcon panel.. They show the location of where this is at. According to this, Tel'Abim should be a little further north than where we'll be going.

Spoiler: 

[Kiivar86]

In regards to the location of the Chamber of the Heart, Magni says in the Heart of Azeroth quest, which is when you meet Magni at the camp in Silithus, "Far below us lies an ancient titan vault called the Chamber of Heart".

So yes it does seem to be somewhere below Silithus.

Though I suppose when you go down far enough everythings kinda beneath everything anyway in a sense. Especially when a planet sized sword is jammed into it.

[Eldryth]

We haven't seen Sargeras since Legion. So, yeah?



That's simply not true. The Legion's entire mission statement including since Legion is to destroy the universe's life. The point was he left nothing to chance. That's why the Legion cackles generically about how ruin is coming and blah blah blah.

Argus is the one exception because he wanted to make a revival battery. Did you really think that

1. Every single planet ever that he destroyed was corrupted but not enough to make a Void Titan or have a soul at all

2. He only ever stumbled on ONE world soul besides Azeroth untouched that allowed him to warp it

and

3. Azeroth is somehow a personal conquest for him despite it being apparently a normal Tuesday for him to run across a corrupted world?

Because that's a lot of aligning contrivances.

Anduin, Jaina, and Thrall are confused and Thrall says the "aimed at SOMETHING" line because they're clumsily catching up viewers on shit that came out in a book 7 years ago, and then was resolved awkwardly 3 expansions ago that was narratively helmed by a sex pest.

Blizzard doesn't have enough respect for their audience to make it more complicated than that and Sargeras had a few seconds to stab a spot in a moment of rage and otherwise would have gone deeper and caused more damage - again, Azeroth herself was already in critical condition. Nothing about that moment reflected some kind of grand scheme or intelligence.

In fact, if the Titans didn't yoink him in the first place, the visual language was that Sargeras was going to consume the planet entirely as a thick green fog of nihilism.

The lack of media literacy is staggering.

Argus wasn't an exception- it was a big reveal in 7.3 (as you said, the last time we heard from Sargeras) that Sargeras was trying to corrupt all the known Titans. It was a key point in Antorus- we had to fight a corrupted Aggramar because of it, Eonar was being hunted for it, and the rest of the Pantheon was actively being tortured and corrupted by the Coven before we fought them. We don't have a clear answer on what he wanted to do with Azeroth yet, but if he really planned to destroy her outright rather than controlling her, that would make her the exception.

I do think the stab was meant to kill her in the end, but I think that was more of a desperate contingency rather than the plan all along- even if he wanted to control her, once it became clear that he had lost and was going to be imprisoned, I think he would have preferred destroying her over letting her continue to exist outside his control. After all, if that cutscene is any indication, he could have just destroyed Azeroth himself at any time, at least towards the end of Legion. His cloud didn't just arrive at the end, so he presumably chose not to simply attack himself. Why hold back, unless he wanted to preserve her in some form?