The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Super Dickmann]

Vakthros can join Azjol-Nerub, Abyssal Maw, and Shattrath City in the list of scrapped raids.

Vakthros was just Vault of the Incarnates before a rewrite and the raid entrance was moved for no adequate reason. Razsageth is going after it and it's very important, whereas she just waltzes into VoI, Vakthros is guarded and is the focus of a zone where VoI is just there, VoI has no lore or mentions before or since except in a tie-in book released much better, there's frost tunnels and frost spiders that otherwise only show up in Azure Span under VoI, despite VoI being a lava biome, etc. etc.

[Varodoc]

A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.

[Super Dickmann]

A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.

Please god, no more fucking horses. Besides, Gilneas has foxes in the starting experience, so they're native.

[Varodoc]

Please god, no more fucking horses. Besides, Gilneas has foxes in the starting experience, so they're native.

BfA was 5 years ago, this is a reminder in case the Pandemic shifted your perception of time.

Majority of Alliance playebase has gotten over the Horse fatigue from BfA/Kul Tiras.

You see this in this very thread, where people wanted a new Gilnean warhorse.

[Nymrohd]

Vakthros was just Vault of the Incarnates before a rewrite and the raid entrance was moved for no adequate reason. Razsageth is going after it and it's very important, whereas she just waltzes into VoI, Vakthros is guarded and is the focus of a zone where VoI is just there, VoI has no lore or mentions before or since except in a tie-in book released much better, there's frost tunnels and frost spiders that otherwise only show up in Azure Span under VoI, despite VoI being a lava biome, etc. etc.

There is an interactible item on top of Vakthros that pretty much confirms it; it was used to power the Vault by diverting the local ley lines. It's why Razsageth attacked it. We know from datamining the Vault would be on an Island just off the coast nearby in Azure Span.

[Super Dickmann]

BfA was 5 years ago, this is a reminder in case the Pandemic shifted your perception of time.

Majority of Alliance playebase has gotten over the Horse fatigue from BfA/Kul Tiras.

You see this in this very thread, where people wanted a new Gilnean warhorse.

Yes, but there's one too many horses while precious few foxes, foxes are a better commodity, more bang for the buck. Especially if it doesn't use the vulpin model.

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There is an interactible item on top of Vakthros that pretty much confirms it; it was used to power the Vault by diverting the local ley lines. It's why Razsageth attacked it. We know from datamining the Vault would be on an Island just off the coast nearby in Azure Span.

Good catch, though I've no idea why they changed it, VoI's surroundings are very generic and we're far past latency issues being the reasoning like the Argent Tournament being away from Dala.

[Sondrelk]

A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.

Gilneas doesn't really have any history with gryphons, so probably not one of those, and we have s bunch of horses already. I doubt another one would be all that different or interesting to look at compared to all the ones we already have.

Foxes though are a rare thing to have as a mount. Not counting the amazing technicolor vulpins from Ardenweald I think there are only two fox mounts. One is a vicious saddle mount,and the other is way up there in terms of rare drop mounts.

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Yes, but there's one too many horses while precious few foxes, foxes are a better commodity, more bang for the buck. Especially if it doesn't use the vulpin model.

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Good catch, though I've no idea why they changed it, VoI's surroundings are very generic and we're far past latency issues being the reasoning like the Argent Tournament being away from Dala.

Honestly, I am less so wondering about why Vaktgris was written out, and more so why the Mother Oathstone was written in. It was only mentioned that once and never again.
Smacks to me of writers scrapping an idea without a good one to replace it. Realizing too late that they can't do anything about it.

[milkmustache]

Gilnean quest was interseting.

Things to note: the dialogue box in the quest menu for the final Scarlet leader says "This will not be the last time we see the Scarlet Crusade", along with her turning into a light creature, like the one in Exile's Reach. Yellow voidlord NPC. However, the NPC is named "Hallowed Monstrosity", which feels far too on the nose considering we're going to venture to a place named [I]Hallow[/I]fall, a zone full of light worshipping humans. Arathi and Scarlet tie in feels inevitable.

Also, Genn wandering of; this trope is okay every now and then, Blizzard, but god it feels like every time they have other usages for a lore character they will abdicate their throne and then wander to find an old friend. Not that big a deal, just tiring. Anyway, going to see Anduin I suppose?

EDIT: Hid for spoilers.

[Super Dickmann]

Honestly, I am less so wondering about why Vaktgris was written out, and more so why the Mother Oathstone was written in. It was only mentioned that once and never again.
Smacks to me of writers scrapping an idea without a good one to replace it. Realizing too late that they can't do anything about it.

The Mother Oathstone reeks more of a plot beat meant to fail, but they skipped the part where this is said explicitly. The whole gist of the plot is that the Aspects want to reclaim their powers by filling out the titan checklist, they do so by the end of the questing but it fails. So they all go on vision quests (except Alex, unless you count her Vyranoth reunion I guess) and then at the end of Amirdrassil they find out that the real power was the friends they made along the way and get the buff. The Oathstone in this exists to fail and for them not to use it.

You could skip and just do the same thing with them searching for Tyr to re-empower them, only to solve the problem themselves and have him feel lost, and the game in fact does this, making the Oathstone even more pointless, as the way it's written following it not working and Rasz calling them clowns at the very first patch there's not even an attempt to get it working again. As is, it's a redundant plot element.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, I am less so wondering about why Vaktgris was written out, and more so why the Mother Oathstone was written in. It was only mentioned that once and never again.
Smacks to me of writers scrapping an idea without a good one to replace it. Realizing too late that they can't do anything about it.

The entire Oathstone plot was just stupid. It made the story worse by just adding another "Five items" unless they are meant to be the Five Torches. It was never explained, Tyr did not explain it once he came back. Imo we should have gotten to Valdrakken after the Centaur area, had proper questing storyline around Uldorus and then finished in Azure Span. That would have given them more quest time to expand on Tyr and better explain what happened at the Halls of Infusion so we did not have to find out why the entire war happened at a novel a full year after the expac was released. They also should have had some questing in Alg'ethar, that place had heavy design and it was so poorly used; it could have been a daily center easily.

[Super Dickmann]

The entire Oathstone plot was just stupid. It made the story worse by just adding another "Five items" unless they are meant to be the Five Torches. It was never explained, Tyr did not explain it once he came back. Imo we should have gotten to Valdrakken after the Centaur area, had proper questing storyline around Uldorus and then finished in Azure Span. They also should have had some questing in Alg'ethar, that place had heavy design and it was so poorly used; it could have been a daily center easily.

I'm impressed that the writers did the "Find the five plot dicks to proceed with the story" plot twice and both times they were both entirely unnecessary for the story being told and either dropped in and then forgotten (DF), or added retroactively and then forgotten (SL 9.1).

[Nymrohd]

I'm impressed that the writers did the "Find the five plot dicks to proceed with the story" plot twice and both times they were both entirely unnecessary for the story being told and either dropped in and then forgotten (DF), or added retroactively and then forgotten (SL 9.1).

Twice? Five Pillars of Creation, Five Covenant Sigils, Five Oathstones
I'm probably missing something else as well.

[Super Dickmann]

Twice? Five Pillars of Creation, Five Covenant Sigils, Five Oathstones
I'm probably missing something else as well.

I won't count the Pillars of Creation, because it was the first time and there they were actually repeatedly used over the course of the expansion and into the future and represented actual tangible items used in the story instead of disposable symbolic coupons.

[Worldshaper]

Wow, so I guess it's confirmed that the Void artifact is, in fact, the Dark Heart based on the new cutscene.

That means A Song of the Depths had it in reverse.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed.
A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.

Swap those, then.

So it has already come to pass, and the next step in the prophecy is for the Harbinger to carry out the awakening.

Presumably, however, the lore behind the artifact will be explored further in 10.2.7 given the name of that patch, and that Iridikron brought it up again now to foreshadow things.

Guessing the Harbinger still wants to do something with it before it's ready... but what?

We know she's the Harbinger for an ancient enemy, according to Khadgar.

We know the sword of Sargeras probably struck something deep below the earth, based on what (IIRC) Bronzebeard said.

We know the nerubians are harvesting the blood of Old Gods, that are in fact dead.

We know the Harbinger might be a 5th Old God who was slain by her brethren in ages past, but it's not for certain.

We know C'thun is depicted as a sort of main Old God in Chronicles artwork.

Creating an Old God amalgamation? Empowering C'thun? Infusing the worldsoul with all that Old God goo?

[Nymrohd]

Has Shandris ever called Malf dad before?
I'm surprised Tyrande is not actually pregnant but I guess this is in a way inclusive in that it supports adopted family. For some reason I always felt Shandris was more ward than daughter to Tyrande and I prefer it if they hone in on her being her daughter; it will make up for never actually having kids
So I guess Tyrande and Malf are now a retired couple. Wish they'd focus more on Jarod than Shandris. Jarod actually always felt competent. Shandris never did

[Varodoc]

I think Blizzard will recycle the main plot point of Diablo III for TWW.

In Diablo III, the entire storyline is about the villain gathering the essences of all the slain demon lords.

I imagine TWW will be about Xal'atath gathering the essences of the slain Old Gods, to do some kind of nefarious ritual with the World-Soul. That is why the Nerubians are mining the Old God blood, the ancient blood that will be pivotal in next expansion (already confirmed by Blizzard).

Could it be that the dark heart/the artifact and the hunger are intertwined? Xal'atath will store the essences of her kin inside of that heart, sating its hunger for revenge and purpose.

An old whisper resurfaces to the spotlight:

Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.

[Sondrelk]

The entire Oathstone plot was just stupid. It made the story worse by just adding another "Five items" unless they are meant to be the Five Torches. It was never explained, Tyr did not explain it once he came back. Imo we should have gotten to Valdrakken after the Centaur area, had proper questing storyline around Uldorus and then finished in Azure Span. That would have given them more quest time to expand on Tyr and better explain what happened at the Halls of Infusion so we did not have to find out why the entire war happened at a novel a full year after the expac was released. They also should have had some questing in Alg'ethar, that place had heavy design and it was so poorly used; it could have been a daily center easily.

The individual Oathstone made sense to me as pure plot devices. The Dragons have lost their way, and you get a nice bow to each flight as they reclaim whatever piece of themselves is missing. Red Dragonflight with all five types of dragon egg, black with being protectors, etc.
It was more sitte mother Oathstone and the way the individual ones where explicitly magical with some seeming purpose that was never divined.

If you had completely cut out the Mother Oathstone then I feel the plot would have flowed much better. Less questions on what precisely they expect it to do, and more so just treat it like what it is. A way to show the player that the zone questing is done.

And yes, I was also expecting way more in terms of Tyr and the Halls of Infusion. Seemed lien it was going for an obvious Titan Keepers are not benevolent plotline. Though with the decision to announce three expansions I suppose it might have felt redundant with the Last Titan likely going for the exact same plotline on a grander scale.

[Super Dickmann]

Pleasantly surprised with the grounds Vyranoth gives Iridikron shit for, i.e ditching their cause by going for the Not-Dragon Soul and leaving Fyrakk to go mad and die. For all that her turn was massively rushed, she's among the better takeaways of this expansion.

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And yes, I was also expecting way more in terms of Tyr and the Halls of Infusion. Seemed lien it was going for an obvious Titan Keepers are not benevolent plotline. Though with the decision to announce three expansions I suppose it might have felt redundant with the Last Titan likely going for the exact same plotline on a grander scale.

I expect that'll keep coming up as the bit plot of the subsequent expansions before going into full gear in Last Titan. It's why Tyr, Odyn et al are still in play and Iridikron's entire goal hinges on it, combined with Metzen stating it outright.

[Sondrelk]

I won't count the Pillars of Creation, because it was the first time and there they were actually repeatedly used over the course of the expansion and into the future and represented actual tangible items used in the story instead of disposable symbolic coupons.

I dunno. The Pillars of Creation, while certainly more than one off plot points, did also feel by far like the most transparent macguffins of them all.
On this random island, there just so happens to be five immensely powerful Titan artifacts who have never been mentioned before, and which are only on the island in order to not have to go somewhere else on Azeroth for them, which would have made more sense.

[Nymrohd]

Pleasantly surprised with the grounds Vyranoth gives Iridikron shit for, i.e ditching their cause by going for the Not-Dragon Soul and leaving Fyrakk to go mad and die. For all that her turn was massively rushed, she's among the better takeaways of this expansion.

She also fits TLT. Her lair is in Northrend. She will probably be our NPC guide for the content patch where we take Iridikron down (I assume he will either be the first raid boss of that expac or the second after he manages to kill a Titan). So they are doing a decent job setting their confrontation up in advance.

Though honestly, she probably could take him now. She has both her Incarnate powers (and she was one of the strongest Incarnates) AND Azeroth-imbued Aspect powers.

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The individual Oathstone made sense to me as pure plot devices.

The problem is, pure plot devices CHEAPEN the plot. It turns the story from organic to a checklist.

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And yes, I was also expecting way more in terms of Tyr and the Halls of Infusion. Seemed lien it was going for an obvious Titan Keepers are not benevolent plotline. Though with the decision to announce three expansions I suppose it might have felt redundant with the Last Titan likely going for the exact same plotline on a grander scale.

I am assuming they changed the flow of the expac during design and it was for the worst. Imo there were clear opportunities to better utilize the assets they had.