The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

So you honestly think someone (casual or not) playing WoW for 5-10 years is going to view a race that’s been available for play that entire span of time as “alien”?

Alien as in "not native to Azeroth"? Yes. Especially ones that have been playing for 10 years since they've literally visited their homeworld.

Alien as in foreign to the player? No, of course not.

[Teriz]

Alien as in "not native to Azeroth"? Yes. Especially ones that have been playing for 10 years since they've literally visited their homeworld.

Alien as in foreign to the player? No, of course not.

Wouldn't they view Orcs the same way, since we also visited the Orc homeworld in that same span of time?

[Nightshade711]

To the void where the void lords are located, or Ka'resh before it was devoured.

And a light expansion wouldn’t go to the light where the light lords/pantheon is located?
And I doubt we’re getting another WoD time travel expansion where we go to a planet before it’s destroyed.

We're talking about time travel and magic. That's the easiest part to work around. The Hellscream that arrives on MU Azeroth could only be a few years older than the version we encountered in BFA.

Sounds like lazy writing lol. “Oh uh magic and time travel”

[Gurahk]

Nah he’s dead.
In the span of 2 years (for us), around 30ish years passed on Draenor and Grommash was an old man when we last saw him.
Since then, 6-7 years have passed for us, so that’s an additional 90-105 years on Draenor… even if he survived fighting Yrel he’s dead of old age by now.

(Also how would Grommash be able to leave Draenor? Especially before the Draenei who have flying mechs and space ships)

I think you misunderstood what happened with Draenor. Draenor during WoD was 30 years in the past in an alternate universe, the Draenor in BfA is the same universe but aligned with the current time on Azeroth, so 30 years later.

[Teriz]

And a light expansion wouldn’t go to the light where the light lords/pantheon is located?

No, because we're not battling the Naaru themselves, we're battling Yrel's army supported by a Naaru.

In a void expansion, we're literally fighting the void.

Sounds like lazy writing lol. “Oh uh magic and time travel”

I'm sure Blizzard can add some spice to it.

[huth]

Wouldn't they view Orcs the same way, since we also visited the Orc homeworld in that same span of time?

Yes. And they'd be right. That's not an argument in your favour.

[Nightshade711]

No, because we're not battling the Naaru themselves, we're battling Yrel's army supported by a Naaru.

This is a very weak premise and wouldn’t be enough to sustain an entire expansion.
Especially if players want blizzard to keep the same patch cadence & style as Dragonflight.

Which is what you’d probably say if I said “Oh we’re not battling the Void itself just the Ethereals that are supported by the Void”

[Teriz]

Yes. And they'd be right. That's not an argument in your favour.

If the argument is that the Draenei are just as alien as Ethereals because they come from a different world, it certainly does.

[Ersula]

Wow Varodoc & Teriz worked together to derail the main thread see you in 100 pages

[Teriz]

This is a very weak premise and wouldn’t be enough to sustain an entire expansion.
Especially if players want blizzard to keep the same patch cadence & style as Dragonflight.

Which is what you’d probably say if I said “Oh we’re not battling the Void itself just the Ethereals that are supported by the Void”

Why is it a weak premise? Yrel's alignment and her history makes her a compelling villain. The Naaru and a combined Draenei, Orc, Arrakoa, Ogre, and Gromm army make her a formidable threat. Further we have multiple characters in the alliance who wouldn't view her invasion as necessarily a bad thing, and we have multiple characters in the horde and alliance who would be in abject fear of her arrival.

We can spend the various patches/seasons figuring out what turned her evil, what happened to Draenor, dealing with a fracturing alliance, and using the secrets of Avaloren (if that's the new continent) to find a way to stop her. Along with playable Ogres and Arrakoa whose starting zones can be them escaping from Yrel's army to MU Azeroth.

Sounds like a solid expansion to me.

[Nightshade711]

Why is it a weak premise? Yrel's alignment and her history makes her a compelling villain. The Naaru and a combined Draenei, Orc, Arrakoa, Ogre, and Gromm army make her a formidable threat. Further we have multiple characters in the alliance who wouldn't view her invasion as necessarily a bad thing, and we have multiple characters in the horde and alliance who would be in abject fear of her arrival.

We can spend the various patches/seasons figuring out what turned her evil, what happened to Draenor, dealing with a fracturing alliance, and using the secrets of Avaloren (if that's the new continent) to find a way to stop her. Along with playable Ogres and Arrakoa whose starting zones can be them escaping from Yrel's army to MU Azeroth.

Sounds like a solid expansion to me.

Yeah I don’t see that being an expansion that’d have technically 4 major patches (11.0-11.3) with 2 minor patches between each.
It needs more variety, which is why it would inevitably delve into the cosmic stuff.

At best the only way I’d see the light being a semi-main antagonist would be in a “Light vs Void” expansion where there’d probably be a patch where you’re fighting some rampant Naaru and/or a reformed Scarlet Crusade.

Because the ship for Yrel coming to Azeroth has sailed.

[Marlamin]

Wow Varodoc & Teriz worked together to derail the main thread see you in 100 pages

Ersula being the voice of reason was not on my list for this week.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Both void and light are deadends for this franchise for the upcoming expansion.

There's nothing salvageable from a marketing standpoint or narrative standpoint except for Light and it borderline feels kind of weird to frame the entire expansion around a woman who literally lost all her guidance and became a ruthless zealot due to the lack of voices of reasoning unless you just want to frame the LIGHT BAD which fair enough but that's more boring than the alternative of Yrels' zealotry.

You're telling me that we're going to go murder a woman we're responsible for becoming the way that she became while celebrating that we got a main female villain? The logic here is palpable amounts of insanity.

Unfortunately, the Avaloren and Pirate theory isn't exactly better either. So for my case I just think the most important focus is on the feature set and what value they can bring customers which is usually never a good standpoint for a product that the main fantasy and theme is completely worthless.

[Teriz]

Yeah I don’t see that being an expansion that’d have technically 4 major patches (11.0-11.3) with 2 minor patches between each.
It needs more variety, which is why it would inevitably delve into the cosmic stuff.

At best the only way I’d see the light being a semi-main antagonist would be in a “Light vs Void” expansion where there’d probably be a patch where you’re fighting some rampant Naaru and/or a reformed Scarlet Crusade.

Because the ship for Yrel coming to Azeroth has sailed.

That's the thing though, "The Light" or "The Void" wouldn't be an expansion antagonist. Those are universal forces. It's like saying "Fire" is coming to get us and not mentioning elemental characters like Ragnaros. The villains of Warcraft are not the various forces of magic, it's characters who use those forces to cause harm.

With that said, I also don't see Blizzard pulling a new character out their butt like they did with the Jailer. They're clearly trying to utilize new minor villains with old major villains like Raszegath, Iridkron, and Morchie being buttressed against Neltharion, Galakrond, and Murozond.

[Nightshade711]

With that said, I also don't see Blizzard pulling a new character out their butt like they did with the Jailer. They're clearly trying to utilize new minor villains with old major villains like Raszegath, Iridkron, and Morchie being buttressed against Neltharion, Galakrond, and Murozond.

I mean, all of the incarnates were pulled out of nowhere just like the Jailer. None of them existed in lore prior to DF.
They’re just more interesting villains and are actually expanded upon.

Villains like Rafaam at least exist in other media and wouldn’t need some wild explanation as to how he’s on Azeroth… though he clearly wouldn’t be the final boss of any xpac.

[Teriz]

I mean, all of the incarnates were pulled out of nowhere just like the Jailer. None of them existed in lore prior to DF.
They’re just more interesting villains and are actually expanded upon.

Villains like Rafaam at least exist in other media, though he clearly wouldn’t be the final boss of any xpac.

TBF, they weren't really pulled from nowhere. The lore long stated that there were elemental-based proto-drakes, Blizzard just dove a bit more into that lore. That's part of the reason the Incarnates work as villains.

The Jailer literally came out of nowhere, and was simply a massive asspull. Almost on Fast and Furious levels of just pulling crap out of thin air and using it for an antagonist.

As for Rafaam, again I have never seen lore stating that he works for the void lords and has any motivations outside of stealing ancient artifacts.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I can see Rafaam being a shock factor reveal for Retail at some point, but at the same time thats' about it because the introduction of Rafaam essentially turns World of Warcraft into a collection of Marvel movies where everything suddenly becomes focused on this ethereal.

They could play with it, of course. I certainly think there's potential of utilizing Rafaam at some point when things are even more dry and unstable in the character gallery.

Hell, Rafaam would've been excellent as a framing device for more out there cosmic storylines for the Warcraft Universe. But, again the narrative team just clearly does not have enough time, effort, staff, money to fit cosmic level narratives within the 2 year timeframes they are within.

Now who knows, the Lore Codex in Overwatch could mean they finally relent and allow writers to input more into a WoW Lore Tab but until that is confirmed.

I just feel the narrative team has a better way through utilization of Azeroth itself. Especially since they keep stumbling to ponder the World Soul Orb every Cosmic storyline and its' just a bit much, ain't it?

[Nightshade711]

As for Rafaam, again I have never seen lore stating that he works for the void lords and has any motivations outside of stealing ancient artifacts.

I mean he wouldn’t be an exact 1-1 copy of his Hearthstone self like most of the people ported over.
In Hearthstone his whole motivation is taking over the world like a James Bond villain, which is why he steals Dalaran and resurrects Galakrond (which likely won’t happen)

That motivation could be shifted around, who knows. Maybe he’d think using/temporarily helping the void could be mutually beneficial.

[Santandame]

Both void and light are deadends for this franchise for the upcoming expansion.

There's nothing salvageable from a marketing standpoint or narrative standpoint except for Light and it borderline feels kind of weird to frame the entire expansion around a woman who literally lost all her guidance and became a ruthless zealot due to the lack of voices of reasoning unless you just want to frame the LIGHT BAD which fair enough but that's more boring than the alternative of Yrels' zealotry.

You're telling me that we're going to go murder a woman we're responsible for becoming the way that she became while celebrating that we got a main female villain? The logic here is palpable amounts of insanity.

Unfortunately, the Avaloren and Pirate theory isn't exactly better either. So for my case I just think the most important focus is on the feature set and what value they can bring customers which is usually never a good standpoint for a product that the main fantasy and theme is completely worthless.

Curious what puts you off the idea of the pirate fleet as a potential major antagonist? I know Pirates in WoW tend to be painted as more comic relief villains, but this is the chance to present us with something new.

A ruthless Pirate Lord who unites every pirate crew and rogue organisation into a titanic force that dwarves the Horde and Alliance in numbers could honestly be a refreshing change of pace for a villain. Have Nightsquall seek out ancient magic and artifacts on Tel'Abim or Avaloren that would ''buff'' his power level so to speak, backed up by his endless fleet and you have a pretty strong villain.

Portray him similar to how Euron Greyjoy is in the A Song of Ice and Fire books (not show). A ruthless, sadistic madman who travels the world in a quest for more power, learning different arts of sorcery, with the potential to control deep sea terrors.

I'd love an expansion with this as the primary villainous driving force.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Ersula being the voice of reason was not on my list for this week.

I laughed way too much at this