The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

I see them as worgen first, Gilnean second. Otherwise I'd be able to play a human with a Gilnean accent and still be in the same "race"

Worgen, Kul Tiran, Arathi, Forsaken, Human are all the same race -> Human. The forsaken are just undead humans, and the worgen are just cursed humans. For gameplay purposes they are different races, like kul tirans are different race than human, but they are in lore just humans.

[Lady Atia]

Worgen, Kul Tiran, Arathi, Forsaken, Human are all the same race -> Human. The forsaken are just undead humans, and the worgen are just cursed humans. For gameplay purposes they are different races, like kul tirans are different race than human, but they are in lore just humans.

This. Besides that, "race" is actually quite an outdated and problematic term anyways. DND is actually using "species" now which is better but wouldn't really help all that much with Nymrohd's confusion either, I guess. Guess "lineage" or "heritage" would be more fitting for WoW?

[Nymrohd]

Worgen, Kul Tiran, Arathi, Forsaken, Human are all the same race -> Human. The forsaken are just undead humans, and the worgen are just cursed humans. For gameplay purposes they are different races, like kul tirans are different race than human, but they are in lore just humans.

The Worgen and the Forsaken experience are very different to that of other humans. No Gilnean human can understand the struggle to retain their sense of self during the rage of the Hunt and the Heritage quest and then the reclamation culminating in Tess becoming leader just reduces Worgen to human with a curse instead of what they actually are; instead of embracing their racial fantasy, it denigrates it.

[Enrif]

This. Besides that, "race" is actually quite an outdated and problematic term anyways. DND is actually using "species" now which is better but wouldn't really help all that much with Nymrohd's confusion either, I guess. Guess "lineage" or "heritage" would be more fitting for WoW?

as a non-native english speaker i never liked the terms lineage, heritage or ancestry, as they in my mind don't mean the person itself, but the origin of the person instead. Species i would be fine with, just doesn't sound very fantasy like.

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The Worgen and the Forsaken experience are very different to that of other humans. No Gilnean human can understand the struggle to retain their sense of self during the rage of the Hunt and the Heritage quest and then the reclamation culminating in Tess becoming leader just reduces Worgen to human with a curse instead of what they actually are; instead of embracing their racial fantasy, it denigrates it.

Did you played the worgen heritage quest? Tess was willing to become a worgen, but was talked out of it by the worgen. They don't want the curse to spread, and yes they see themselves as humans with a curse.

[Nymrohd]

Did you played the worgen heritage quest? Tess was willing to become a worgen, but was talked out of it by the worgen. They don't want the curse to spread, and yes they see themselves as humans with a curse.

Which is crap and not how they were introduced. It changes them from a distinct people to a visual customization.

[Enrif]

Which is crap and not how they were introduced. It changes them from a distinct people to a visual customization.

They are a distinct culture (gilnean), which is different than kul tiran, arathi, lordaeron or stormwind. The same that mag'har and green orcs are the same race, but they still have their different cultures (frostwolf, blackrock, warsong, shattered hand, etc).

[Lady Atia]

Which is crap and not how they were introduced. It changes them from a distinct people to a visual customization.

Have you played the worgen starting zone? You beginn there as a "human". Worgen never were more than cursed humans of Gilneas, lol.

[Schwert]

Ok sure. I won't discuss this anymore with you because you are the avatar of elitism haha. Also, yes, I find Mythic raiding easier than the saddle grind because it's not as tidious and slow. Have fun with your life, and welcome to my ignore list

What the hell.

"1,000 MMR arena matches = elitism."

This is the most cooked take I've ever seen about low MMR arenas in my life. And I've been helping people get 1800 sets and saddles for a decade.

This. Besides that, "race" is actually quite an outdated and problematic term anyways. DND is actually using "species" now which is better but wouldn't really help all that much with Nymrohd's confusion either, I guess. Guess "lineage" or "heritage" would be more fitting for WoW?

Oh.
Now everything makes sense.

[Nymrohd]

Oh.
Now everything makes sense.

These days D&D has an issue with the idea that an orc will be stronger on average than a halfling . . .

[Woggmer]

Did you played the worgen heritage quest? Tess was willing to become a worgen, but was talked out of it by the worgen. They don't want the curse to spread, and yes they see themselves as humans with a curse.

No, she was being talked out of it by her father who was against the idea, not by the rest of the Gilneans. He probably wanted her to be untainted by the curse so that she can keep up the legacy of the Gilneans going in case the curse might potentially outlive them.
(Which should've been the angle they went with but instead went the 'Worgens are Bad' and hammer it into the person's head on why it sucks, even though from Cata onwards many of the 'Worgen' have either accepted their new life and make use of it or try to find ways to alleviate it.)

Some like the Bloodfang Pack probably would've encouraged Tess to become a Worgen despite what Genn feels about it... but Blizz just likes to give us little breadcrumbs of lore nuggets that they think will lead to something interesting but it leads to nothing special.

They are their own culture, but the game does an awful job in trying to convey it unless you do a deep lore dive. If the average WoW player is only engrossed in what is happening in-game and not in the lore itself; they're not gonna view the Gilneans as Gilneans, they're only going to view them as just the Worgen. Like how they're trying to get the Forsaken to move away from being "Forsaken" to be more like the People of Lordaeron.

[Lahis]

oh yeah lol now tess is the leader of the worgens. I guess we can't have good male characters in charge anymore. they're going to turn anduin gay next expansion

Confirming Anduin as gay would be the least shocking development in TWW.

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No are you joking?

Zin'azshari music? Check.

Tyrande mentioning all those places in Kalimdor? Check.

Return to Teldrassil possible? Check.

Malfurion is back? Check.

This is beautiful.

But it wasn't Big Muscly Dudes punching other Big Muscly Dudes while explosions go off in the background, so of course it is not satisfying for certain people.

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So, Reclaiming Gilneas is not really about Gilneas and Worgen. It is about seeding a future plotline that has nothing to do with them and about giving a chance to Forsaken to show they changed (not even to atone, just to show they are good guys now). Oh also, giving the race's leadership to someone who is not even a member of the race.

Tess is literally the princess of Gilneas. A human kingdom.

[Schwert]

Tess really needs to be a Worgen if she's going to be leading the race.
If not just for the whole fact the thing that makes them a unique playable race is the curse, and having things entirely unrelated to the main point of a playable group being in charge is a massive buzzkill. We're playing werewolves because they're cool; why is our leader not one?

Going back and addressing that horrendous "heritage" quest by having her actually take it on anyways would be nice.
Characters are allowed to make mistakes, change their minds, or need to take emergency actions. Several ways this could happen.

Just gets old playing monster races because you enjoy the things that make them monstrous, only to have the face of it be something ... not that. Get the same vibe from Alleria half the time too with Void Elves. The redesign she got for TWW helps a bit, there's bits of corruption in her hair, but ... yeah. Whee.

[Makabreska]

I like Iridikron more after this finale. He is not some power hungry moron like so many other villains in WoW history. He knows Void is iffy and not to be messed with, still uses it (without actually absorbing it so no corruption, refreshing AF) to get revenge on Titans. He obviously is not happy that Vyranoth switched sides, but does not go full pepega "BETRAYER", and simply warns her to avoid him in the future.

I like this type of villainy.

[Lahis]

The Worgen and the Forsaken experience are very different to that of other humans. No Gilnean human can understand the struggle to retain their sense of self during the rage of the Hunt and the Heritage quest and then the reclamation culminating in Tess becoming leader just reduces Worgen to human with a curse instead of what they actually are; instead of embracing their racial fantasy, it denigrates it.

Worgen are just cursed humans. And the curse isn't even passed to offspring, so unless they start biting their babies, worgen will eventually die out while Gilneans remain.

[Sondrelk]

The only writing in Dragonflight I was truly content with, was that red dragon/dwarf dude just reminiscing about the past. They really nailed that one. The rest, imo, has been sloppy, cheesy, sappy, or just slow.

I miss the epic stories of yore.

That tends to be the case for stories in WoW. The less integral and tied to the main plot they are, the better. Or if they are Draenei themed. Somehow the writers for Draenei just consistently nail it somehow.

[Woggmer]

Worgen are just cursed humans. And the curse isn't even passed to offspring, so unless they start biting their babies, worgen will eventually die out while Gilneans remain.

Gilneans dying out to the Worgen is possible.. the Worgen aspect dying out? They'll always find a way to bring it back especially since the Worgen in Felwood aren't just gilnean worgen, but are actually Night Elf Worgen that were given the curse ages ago. If not that, then there are more feral packs that will try to make a resurgence like again, the Bloodfang Pack in Silverpine or the Nightbane Pack... or even the possibility of a new Alpha Prime showing up to restart the Wolf Cult.

There's plenty to explore and there's no way that the Worgen will die out just as easily.

That said, if they're humans, the least they could do is try to change up the body types of the Gilneans so they can differentiate from regular humans like they did with the Kul'tirans (But the odds of that happening are zilch.) Even players can look at certain troll tribes and tell the difference between a Gurubashi, Amani, Zandalari, Farraki, and Drakkari.

[Varodoc]

Gilneans dying out to the Worgen is possible.. the Worgen aspect dying out? They'll always find a way to bring it back especially since the Worgen in Felwood aren't just gilnean worgen, but are actually Night Elf Worgen that were given the curse ages ago. If not that, then there are more feral packs that will try to make a resurgence like again, the Bloodfang Pack in Silverpine or the Nightbane Pack... or even the possibility of a new Alpha Prime showing up to restart the Wolf Cult.

There's plenty to explore and there's no way that the Worgen will die out just as easily.

That said, if they're humans, the least they could do is try to change up the body types of the Gilneans so they can differentiate from regular humans like they did with the Kul'tirans (But the odds of that happening are zilch.) Even players can look at certain troll tribes and tell the difference between a Gurubashi, Amani, Zandalari, Farraki, and Drakkari.

Gurubashi, Amani, Farraki, and Drakkari are supposed to be different sub-species of the Zandalari, which resulted from these Trolls living in different ecosystems/climates.

Like how the Night Elves Highborne of Dath'remar Sunstrider changed into the High Elves once they left the eternal starlight of Kalimdor/Ashenvale.

Human kingdoms are not supposed to have evolved into natural subraces. They all lived in the same climate and ecosystem. They all lived in the same continent.

Fat Kul Tirans don't have Drust blood. Blizzard could easily add Fat option to Stormwind humans. Just as they could add Normal option to Kul Tirans (The Proudmoores are not fat, after all).

Worgen are not a natural subrace that resulted from adaptation, like Troll subraces or the High Elves. They are a cursed anomaly.

The playable race will always be Gilnean first, Worgen second.

Gilnean >>> Worgen

Tess Greymane is the new leader because she is the heir to the throne of Gilneas. That she isn't a Worgen is irrelevant.

[Xilurm]

This. Besides that, "race" is actually quite an outdated and problematic term anyways. DND is actually using "species" now which is better but wouldn't really help all that much with Nymrohd's confusion either, I guess. Guess "lineage" or "heritage" would be more fitting for WoW?

Wizards of the Coast are completely out of touch. Calling humanoids who share the same intelligence different "species" is a thousand times more xenophobic than calling them races.

The Worgen and the Forsaken experience are very different to that of other humans. No Gilnean human can understand the struggle to retain their sense of self during the rage of the Hunt and the Heritage quest and then the reclamation culminating in Tess becoming leader just reduces Worgen to human with a curse instead of what they actually are; instead of embracing their racial fantasy, it denigrates it.

Maybe that's what their story moving forward is going to be. But under any other circumstance I'd agree with you, however Tess is the rightful heir and I'm glad they are sticking to bloodlines and things like that. Not much point in a fantasy world with Kings and Queens if blood doesn't matter.

[Nymrohd]

Maybe that's what their story moving forward is going to be. But under any other circumstance I'd agree with you, however Tess is the rightful heir and I'm glad they are sticking to bloodlines and things like that. Not much point in a fantasy world with Kings and Queens if blood doesn't matter.

I get it, just wish we could have a worgen leading the worgen. I don't have anything against Tess, I just don't see why Genn would retire.

[Lady Atia]

Gilneans dying out to the Worgen is possible.. the Worgen aspect dying out? They'll always find a way to bring it back especially since the Worgen in Felwood aren't just gilnean worgen, but are actually Night Elf Worgen that were given the curse ages ago. If not that, then there are more feral packs that will try to make a resurgence like again, the Bloodfang Pack in Silverpine or the Nightbane Pack... or even the possibility of a new Alpha Prime showing up to restart the Wolf Cult.

There's plenty to explore and there's no way that the Worgen will die out just as easily.

That said, if they're humans, the least they could do is try to change up the body types of the Gilneans so they can differentiate from regular humans like they did with the Kul'tirans (But the odds of that happening are zilch.) Even players can look at certain troll tribes and tell the difference between a Gurubashi, Amani, Zandalari, Farraki, and Drakkari.

Giving playable Kul'Tirans a different bodytype was the dumbest thing ever, especially since all their major characters aren't fat either. Hopefully they change that later on, giving the fat body type to all three and call it a day. Humans are humans. Voice acting alone should be enough to make them "different".

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I get it, just wish we could have a worgen leading the worgen. I don't have anything against Tess, I just don't see why Genn would retire.

It isn't only Genn who retired, Malfurion and Tyrando also did. And tbh that's a good thing, let the new chars shine as future leaders and give the old cast one last adventure with the worldsoul saga.