The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

What if this happens during Vanilla when the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj open? Last time we saw Xal'atath on retail was in time travel dungeon, and after that she has been spotted in SoD.

Would be really cool twist if she stopped by in the past to colect C'Thun's essence, and that we will getr to see it in SoD.

It also feels like we have to see something happen this weekend with Call of the Scarab. Anduin has been spotted, and we know from the trailer that he is going to Silithus. There's got to be some TWW breadcrumbs there.

[Worldshaper]

I wonder...

In A Song of the Depths, the "a hunger lost to to the ages will be reclaimed" and "a dark heart left broken awaits the taking" texts are in that order because chronologically that's when those things happened back in time. Galakrond died before Neltharion and his Void shenanigans took place.

I suppose it doesn't matter now. The next step is for Xal'atath to make her move. She's probably gotten what she wanted from Iridikron.

[Schwert]

I'd say it about the whole expansion, using the blue dragonflight questline as the contrast because it's so involved. 10.1.7 is another example where the story content felt totally throwaway and like it was hitting the bare minimum. In the same vein, I'd rather them just tell us a story all at once like the blue story rather than something like the Tyr storyline being stretched out over a whole year lending it this whole "so what?" energy when it finally reached a conclusion.

Bit late, but I think the issue is more so the "so what" energy rather than longer quest chains in general.
The reward for sticking that quest chain out all year was a tabard, essentially. Woo.
That should have culminated in something major to hype up the playerbase like paladins for everybody, but instead, it's ... nothing.

[Treegdar]

Bit late, but I think the issue is more so the "so what" energy rather than longer quest chains in general.
The reward for sticking that quest chain out all year was a tabard, essentially. Woo.
That should have culminated in something major to hype up the playerbase like paladins for everybody, but instead, it's ... nothing.

Eh I think its way more to do with the context of the questline. Like the Blue dragon questline was very low key in what was happening, basically us going to a couple different dragons, helping them with what they were currently doing, and going "Hey Kalec wants all the blues to hang out again, wanna join?" It didn't have high stakes or immediate impact but it was still a fairly large questline all doable at once.

Tyr questline was broken up into several patches, had tons of build up and related back to the initial 10.0 campaign of re-powering the aspects, but basically ended with nothing. Tyr's back! And he... sits in a chair while his new devotees teach him the history of the world he missed. The aspects got their powers back, but in a totally random unrelated way.

The Gilneas questline conflicts with its own premise. It should be either a long questline reestablishing the empty kingdom lost ~20 years ago (in the vein of the blue questline) or a big epic fight against whoever they decided currently holds it (what they... "tried" with the Tyr questline in Suramar), with a solid payoff of rewards and world updates. Instead its a 10 minute nothing quest against an enemy that doesn't make sense to hold the kingdom, with weird/ugly rewards and an impact on the world so little it might as well have not happened.

[Schwert]

Eh I think its way more to do with the context of the questline. Like the Blue dragon questline was very low key in what was happening, basically us going to a couple different dragons, helping them with what they were currently doing, and going "Hey Kalec wants all the blues to hang out again, wanna join?" It didn't have high stakes or immediate impact but it was still a fairly large questline all doable at once.

Tyr questline was broken up into several patches, had tons of build up and related back to the initial 10.0 campaign of re-powering the aspects, but basically ended with nothing. Tyr's back! And he... sits in a chair while his new devotees teach him the history of the world he missed. The aspects got their powers back, but in a totally random unrelated way.

The Gilneas questline conflicts with its own premise. It should be either a long questline reestablishing the empty kingdom lost ~20 years ago (in the vein of the blue questline) or a big epic fight against whoever they decided currently holds it (what they... "tried" with the Tyr questline in Suramar), with a solid payoff of rewards and world updates. Instead its a 10 minute nothing quest against an enemy that doesn't make sense to hold the kingdom, with weird/ugly rewards and an impact on the world so little it might as well have not happened.

I often wonder how many players even care about stuff like Tyr, because his stuff - and Titan stuff in general - feels very niche.
Whereas stuff like Gilneas is literally the starting experience for many players, and the dragon stuff is the main focus of the expansion more so than anything.

[Cheezits]

Does anyone else think that this line for Turalyon is a bit foreboding?

"I believe Lord Commander Turalyon has come to admire our discipline. He appreciates skilled soldiers."

The comment saying he could be Denathrius in disguise made me consider the possibility, honestly. It would explain how little he is featured, and it would basically be a flip on the reveal of who was controlling the Scarlets.

[Ersula]

It also feels like we have to see something happen this weekend with Call of the Scarab. Anduin has been spotted, and we know from the trailer that he is going to Silithus. There's got to be some TWW breadcrumbs there.

The writing is truly in a sorry state if learning Anduin traveled from one location to another that we've already seen him at counts as noteworthy drama. This is not an advancement of anything.

[Varodoc]

Metzen is back at the head of the game, and his stories are simple.

No more 23242IQ "A cosmos divided will not survive..." villains that actually make no sense and are an inconsistent mess.

No more weird plotlines that don't make sense and leave gaping holes, with plans that don't make sense.

Metzen tells simple stories, basic stories, and in their simplicity, they become successful and beloved.

If Turalyon becomes a villain, it's because he decided that the Scarlet Crusade is right and the Light's infidels and enemies must be purged. A simple story, a successful story. None of that "It was a dreadlord all along!!" Nonsense that doesn't make sense.

[Dracullus]

The writing is truly in a sorry state if learning Anduin traveled from one location to another that we've already seen him at counts as noteworthy drama. This is not an advancement of anything.

What a stupid comment. Anduin wasn't on vacation in Pandaria. He was last seen in literal hell and missing for years, it's important news for characters there (and fact they Genn want to share it with Jaina, but not Turalyon is interesting). From our POV it's exciting we are getting closer to reveal moment from Blizzcon.

Warcraft story is nothing special, but wannabe writers and their, ekhem, 'thoughts' are true cancer..

[Ersula]

What a stupid comment. Anduin wasn't on vacation in Pandaria. He was last seen in literal hell and missing for years, it's important news for characters there (and fact they Genn want to share it with Jaina, but not Turalyon is interesting). From our POV it's exciting we are getting closer to reveal moment from Blizzcon.

Warcraft story is nothing special, but wannabe writers and their, ekhem, 'thoughts' are true cancer..

Closer to the reveal moment we've already seen? Your use of the word "reveal" needs several thousand quotation marks. This is just buildup with no new information. Blizzard has demonstrated it's great with buildup. Payoff is the thing it struggles with. And without Payoff, Buildup is pointless.

Metzen is back at the head of the game, and his stories are simple.

No more 23242IQ "A cosmos divided will not survive..." villains that actually make no sense and are an inconsistent mess.

That's well & good but if anything there's no reason we shouldn't regard Dragonflight as anything but the Worldsoul Saga's Prologue. Anyone who was accusing Dragonflight of being a filler expansion were 100% correct.

[Zers Editor]

Closer to the reveal moment we've already seen? Your use of the word "reveal" needs several thousand quotation marks. This is just buildup with no new information. Blizzard has demonstrated it's great with buildup. Payoff is the thing it struggles with. And without Payoff, Buildup is pointless.
That's well & good but if anything there's no reason we shouldn't regard Dragonflight as anything but the Worldsoul Saga's Prologue. Anyone who was accusing Dragonflight of being a filler expansion were 100% correct.

I'd call it a transition expansion.

[Lahis]

Does anyone else think that this line for Turalyon is a bit foreboding?

"I believe Lord Commander Turalyon has come to admire our discipline. He appreciates skilled soldiers."

The comment saying he could be Denathrius in disguise made me consider the possibility, honestly. It would explain how little he is featured, and it would basically be a flip on the reveal of who was controlling the Scarlets.

He is a Light zealot. Light zealots like disciplined soldiers who follow orders without question and push for the one truth accepted by the Light.

[Enrif]

I wonder...

In A Song of the Depths, the "a hunger lost to to the ages will be reclaimed" and "a dark heart left broken awaits the taking" texts are in that order because chronologically that's when those things happened back in time. Galakrond died before Neltharion and his Void shenanigans took place.

I suppose it doesn't matter now. The next step is for Xal'atath to make her move. She's probably gotten what she wanted from Iridikron.

huh, let's look into it

Rise, rise! Our Queen calls to us from beyond the Umbral Veil. She has transcended the Circle of Stars and basks in her eternal grandeur!

The time we have long awaited is nigh.

Even now, the Harbinger gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost. They must remember their vows and serve those to whom they owe fealty. <- with the World Soul Saga reveal, this is Xal'ataht and the Nerubians

While they toil in the deep places, we will journey to the shores of dragon lands, to the blessed isle where the Worldbreaker first embraced the whispers. <- Naga at the Forbidden Reach

As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin! <- death of Razageth, Vyranaoth as the Aspect of Storms, Fyrakk wanting to torch everyhting, Iridikron hunting for secrets?

The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends. <- this could be about Iridikron. Seems Xal'ataht wants to use his rage.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed. <- this is Galakronds hunger captured by Iridikron

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking. <- name dropping the dark heart, and it was taken

When these things come to pass, the Harbinger will fulfill the final prophecy and complete the awakening. <- probably plot points for The War Within

Only then shall our Queen return to reign over sea and sky and earth. We must make ready. <- Azshara returning in Midnight, where all the elf tribes unite, would make a lot of sense. She was the queen of the elves after all.

Rise, rise! Soon all that was hidden will be revealed.

[Varodoc]

huh, let's look into it

After looking at that codex, It's clear that they are resetting the story to how it was at the end of Legion (the very last time Metzen was on the team, before the Renaissance of WoW Lore that we are seeing now), before the clusterfuck of BfA/Shadowlands.

- Everyone is worried about Sargeras and his Blade.

- World-Soul crying out in pain from the damage inflicted by Sargeras' Blade.

- The two factions have a loose cooperation going on.

- N'Zoth is scheming.

- Xal'atath is scheming.

- Azshara is scheming.

- We are going back to more Old God shenanigans/more Whispers shenanigans.

I suspect that the New gen. Team pushed Metzen to include wimpy Anduin from Shadowlands as a consolation prize. Since Anduin in Legion had already resolved his character conflict in 7.2, when he reclaimed Shalamayne and accepted his rightful place as the King of the Alliance.

Either way, we can ignore the vast majority of what happened in BfA/SL.

With this, Metzen has already saved WoW lore, and Worldsoul Saga is shaping up to be Peak WoW Storytelling.

[Shadochi]

I feel like DF has fallen off with the quality of the pre rendered cinematics (the one with ingame graphics, not the full CGI).There has been way too many cinematics that are just 2 or more NPCs talking which is usually just done as a cutscene or dialogue between two NPCs in the open world. I feel like it being a pre rendered cinematic doesn't bring anything to the table and its much better for those to be stuff you can't actually easily do in the in engine cutscenes.

On other news: My Fyr'alath axe finally dropped last night

[Kiivar86]

You're telling me a general and soldier who has fought for years appreciates skilled soldiers?

Shocker!

Or maybe this is just a way to show that his previous concern about them is no more and that they've proven themselves to him.

...nah, gotta be the villain bat coming, yessir.

[Lady Atia]

I feel like DF has fallen off with the quality of the pre rendered cinematics (the one with ingame graphics, not the full CGI).There has been way too many cinematics that are just 2 or more NPCs talking which is usually just done as a cutscene or dialogue between two NPCs in the open world. I feel like it being a pre rendered cinematic doesn't bring anything to the table and its much better for those to be stuff you can't actually easily do in the in engine cutscenes.

On other news: My Fyr'alath axe finally dropped last night

Tbf, the epilogue cinematics from this week were quite awesome, part of me hopes we will get another character model update that brings us in line with Genn and his daughter from the Gilneas ending.

[Makorus]

Does anyone else think that this line for Turalyon is a bit foreboding?

"I believe Lord Commander Turalyon has come to admire our discipline. He appreciates skilled soldiers."

The comment saying he could be Denathrius in disguise made me consider the possibility, honestly. It would explain how little he is featured, and it would basically be a flip on the reveal of who was controlling the Scarlets.

I am fairly sure it's just a callback to the Dracthyr intro where Turalyon doesn't trust them at all, and doesn't want them anywhere near Stormwind.

"He hates us, now he realized that we are cool, yay!"

I wish people would stop with the "X is a Dreadlord during all of these expansions!" stuff already. It's never gonna happen. The closest we got was Shaw being a Dreadlord, and the player being a Dreadlord. But the effects of that were minimal, to a certain degree, because if you make it affect more than that, it just seems incredibly lazy and like an asspull.

- - - Updated - - -

Closer to the reveal moment we've already seen? Your use of the word "reveal" needs several thousand quotation marks. This is just buildup with no new information. Blizzard has demonstrated it's great with buildup. Payoff is the thing it struggles with. And without Payoff, Buildup is pointless.
That's well & good but if anything there's no reason we shouldn't regard Dragonflight as anything but the Worldsoul Saga's Prologue. Anyone who was accusing Dragonflight of being a filler expansion were 100% correct.

??? what an incredibly weird take.

"MoP can't be regarded as anything but Warlords Prologue!" "WoD can't be regarded as anything but Legions Prologue!" "Legion can't be regarded as anything but BfAs Prologue!" "BfA can't be regarded as anything but Shadowlands prologue!"

Arguably, Shadowlands is the odd one out since MoP, but other than that, yeah expansions have been leading into the next expansion for a long time now.

That doesn't mean they don't stand on their own. I honestly don't understand your point. What's the difference between a filler expansion, and a not filler expansion? It seems incredibly arbirtrary and just boils down to "I don't like that expansion!" and "I like that expansion!".

[Dracullus]

I feel like DF has fallen off with the quality of the pre rendered cinematics (the one with ingame graphics, not the full CGI).There has been way too many cinematics that are just 2 or more NPCs talking which is usually just done as a cutscene or dialogue between two NPCs in the open world. I feel like it being a pre rendered cinematic doesn't bring anything to the table and its much better for those to be stuff you can't actually easily do in the in engine cutscenes.

On other news: My Fyr'alath axe finally dropped last night

DF quality is going down whenever Alextrasza is on screen, and she is pretty often. Slooooow talking, no personality and discussing obvious stuff for 5 minutes instead of doing anything. And she supposed to be poster girl of expansion, compare that to Illidan in Legion or Jaina in BfA and how many iconic scenes they had despite having a lot less screen time.

On the other hand, quality was going up with Raszageth, Fyrakk or Iridikron on screen. Fyrakk isn't perfect last boss material, but at least he was entertaining. Beside that, whole DF is necessary calm before storm, cause after Legion->BfA->SL people were seriously fed up with end of the world scenarios.

[Jaggler]

I am fairly sure it's just a callback to the Dracthyr intro where Turalyon doesn't trust them at all, and doesn't want them anywhere near Stormwind.

"He hates us, now he realized that we are cool, yay!"

I wish people would stop with the "X is a Dreadlord during all of these expansions!" stuff already. It's never gonna happen. The closest we got was Shaw being a Dreadlord, and the player being a Dreadlord. But the effects of that were minimal, to a certain degree, because if you make it affect more than that, it just seems incredibly lazy and like an asspull.

- - - Updated - - -



??? what an incredibly weird take.

"MoP can't be regarded as anything but Warlords Prologue!" "WoD can't be regarded as anything but Legions Prologue!" "Legion can't be regarded as anything but BfAs Prologue!" "BfA can't be regarded as anything but Shadowlands prologue!"

Arguably, Shadowlands is the odd one out since MoP, but other than that, yeah expansions have been leading into the next expansion for a long time now.

That doesn't mean they don't stand on their own. I honestly don't understand your point. What's the difference between a filler expansion, and a not filler expansion? It seems incredibly arbirtrary and just boils down to "I don't like that expansion!" and "I like that expansion!".

Legion is obviously just filler, since it lead from WoD to BfA