1. #60661
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

    From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.
    Alliance players: "ugh, not another horse or gryphon please"
    Also Alliance players: "JFC why is this mount not a horse!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    So that's it, we take Gilneas back, and nothing after ?
    What did you expect? Gilneas is retaken, then the sky splits open, again, and Xal'atath invades with a Void army?

    I do expect small bit of content and/or story around the rebuilding of Gilneas in the coming patches or even in the next couple weeks, but I dread that anything like that would now be declared as a "panicked reaction" by those who didn't like the questline, y'know, like Terran hastily rendered Old Soldier on his phone in one day after people were confused about the Sylvanas Warbringer cinematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Makes no difference, Chronicle was retconned less than a year after release with its take on the Titans. If something doesn't suit the writers going forward it'll get retconned.
    Honestly, it feels like players remember any slight mistake, bad phrasing, slip of the tongue, even if corrected shortly after, and then ride that dead horse not just into the ground, but through the entire planet. "Chronicle is objective canon", "The Legion transcends realities", "3D-printed" etc.

    That's like someone reminding you every day of the time you threw a crumbled ball of paper at the bin and missed, or when you misspelled some word in an email.

    To clarify, yes, I think calling Chronicle "canon" or whatever was the mistake, not that it turned out to be PoV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think Chronicle would be a lot less controversial if the devs just said "whoever wrote the book was right at the time but we change things"
    But we aready know they change things to better fit the current narrative, or even just gameplay. We got a big apology for the Draenei retcon, and even that can be summarized as "sorry for changing the lore. It will happen again." and there was "Isn't Falstad dead?" which was an outright mistake/mixup. I think that these two and other smaller things established that the story is fluid, and will be bent and reshaped.
    We don't need an orchestrated apology every time this happens again in any small capacity, and as far as I remember they did acknowledge that Chronicle 1 gave the impression that it was objective canon. That's enough in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Accountwide gold would literally kill BMAH participation for any but a few whales, making it even worse than it's currently.
    Isn't gold already technically account-wide, as you can trade cross-realm? I'm actually a bit disappointed that this doesn't apply at least to mail between your own characters, so you need another online character (a second subscribed account, whether another player or one of yours) to trade between your own characters.

    But yes, gold should be account-wide, without the need to move amounts between characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    But if they have to neuter and cannibalize literally every other Troll tribe to bring them into the fold, would that not be tacit admission that there's nothing to be proud of about being a Darkspear and you should just go support another tribe? That would be a hilarious questline.

    Are the Darkspear trolls so irrelevant nobodies that they can't carry their own questline, without having to involve every other tribe?
    Cooperation is not weakness. Many tribes have at least a friendly association with the Horde now, thanks to diplomacy from the Darkspear and, yes, also the Zandalari. That is quite a feat for the tribe once considered to be the weakest.

    And honestly, if it means that you can better RP as a member of another tribe, including hopefully more customization, then sure, I'm all for involving the other tribes in the Heritage Questline.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  2. #60662
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Alliance players: "ugh, not another horse or gryphon please"
    Also Alliance players: "JFC why is this mount not a horse!"
    Damn, if only I had already addressed this, one week ago, when it was relevant.
    Cooperation is not weakness. Many tribes have at least a friendly association with the Horde now, thanks to diplomacy from the Darkspear and, yes, also the Zandalari. That is quite a feat for the tribe once considered to be the weakest.

    And honestly, if it means that you can better RP as a member of another tribe, including hopefully more customization, then sure, I'm all for involving the other tribes in the Heritage Questline.
    So you acknowledge that the Darkspears cannot carry a storyline by themselves and need to latch onto more interesting tribes.

  3. #60663
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    They didn't backtrack with KT. You guys just assumed KT meant he was serving the Jailer all along cause of the lack of clarification in his statements. The false masters related to the people of Maldraxxus alone post Wrath. Simple as that.
    Ah Yes, let's blame the players because Danuser and his team suck at writing. A classic.

    Also, your attempt at damage control remains an interpretation as he doesn't mention Maldraxxus once. Your interpretation is just that: your interpretation, nothing more.

    Also, it was exaggerated. It was seen as definitive initially cause that's all we had of the Universes origins at the time. And again, the Light and Void clash isn't wrong. It just wasn't as major as implied.
    Or, it was seen as definitive because that's literally how Blizzard advertised it:

    World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1 is a journey through an age of myth and legend, a time long before the Horde and the Alliance came to be. This definitive tome of Warcraft history reveals untold stories about the birth of the cosmos, the rise of ancient empires, and the forces that shaped the world of Azeroth and its people.

  4. #60664
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    So you acknowledge that the Darkspears cannot carry a storyline by themselves and need to latch onto more interesting tribes.
    No, I state that the Darkspear have brought other tribes into the fold, and that addressing how these tribes affect the Horde and its preexisting Troll members, with each tribe still retaining their identity, that could be an even better story than "just" a story about the Darkspear (which, to stress that, would already be great on its own)
    That's not to say this will or should happen, my point is that it's not a bad thing.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  5. #60665
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    No, I state that the Darkspear have brought other tribes into the fold, and that addressing how these tribes affect the Horde and its preexisting Troll members, with each tribe still retaining their identity, that could be an even better story than "just" a story about the Darkspear (which, to stress that, would already be great on its own)
    That's not to say this will or should happen, my point is that it's not a bad thing.
    Which tribes are those? The Shatterspear, who are identical to the Darkspears in pretty much everything except location? The Revantusk, a minor Forest troll tribe?

    Make no mistake; the Gurubashi and Amani tribes remain hostile to the Horde; and the Drakkari and Dark Trolls are down to one survivor each, like the Uncorrupted Shadowmoon clan.

  6. #60666
    La la la la~ LemonDemonGirl's Avatar
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    Is 'Loa of Death' simply just a title, or can there be more than one?
    I don't play WoW anymore smh.

  7. #60667
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    The Legion transcending realities IS still a thing btw. So no idea why you argue against this notion
    Sorry, didn't mean to imply these cases are all the same, hence the variety of descriptions at the start of that paragraph, but I could've phrased it better.

    That line was, as far as I know, from some interview, when asked why the Legion is on Draenor and why it's MU Legion and not some AU version of the Legion. It was never repeated or doubled down upon, so I see it as quasi-canon, and a better explanation is that the Legion noticed the Draenor bubble getting closer to our timeline, and/or, even better, was contacted by AU Gul'dan - even if he previously had contact with some AU Legion, after the Opening of the Draenor Dark Portal, he rather reached the MU Legion.
    I've used too many words here to make it sound simple, but it makes more sense than the Legion only existing in one timeline but also seeing other timelines, and I'm sure it would've been "changed", clarified, if the topic had ever been relevant after WoD.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  8. #60668
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Sorry, didn't mean to imply these cases are all the same, hence the variety of descriptions at the start of that paragraph, but I could've phrased it better.

    That line was, as far as I know, from some interview, when asked why the Legion is on Draenor and why it's MU Legion and not some AU version of the Legion. It was never repeated or doubled down upon, so I see it as quasi-canon, and a better explanation is that the Legion noticed the Draenor bubble getting closer to our timeline, and/or, even better, was contacted by AU Gul'dan - even if he previously had contact with some AU Legion, after the Opening of the Draenor Dark Portal, he rather reached the MU Legion.
    I've used too many words here to make it sound simple, but it makes more sense than the Legion only existing in one timeline but also seeing other timelines, and I'm sure it would've been "changed", clarified, if the topic had ever been relevant after WoD.
    This is true, & why you should conceptualize the twisting nether, like an alternate timeline, but it's completely empty by design. Which is consistent with Chronicles' description & Sargeras' role in guarding the Twisting Nether like a prison before his fall. It was originally created to store things the titans didn't want to exist, but demonkind has used it to jump in & out of reality & avoid the machinations of the Titans or First Ones.

    Between the Twisting Nether, Korthia, Antorus, Bronze Timeway & how their existence is consistent with First Ones lore, we should assume the post-BFA lore is consistent with Metzen's designs.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2024-01-23 at 03:20 PM.

  9. #60669
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    I mean, the Illidan novel explores it better lol.
    Ah sorry, haven't read that one yet.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  10. #60670
    Quote Originally Posted by LemonDemonGirl View Post
    Is 'Loa of Death' simply just a title, or can there be more than one?
    In the case with Bwonsamdi and Mueh'zala, before Shadowlands.. Mueh'zala was THE Loa of Death, calling himself the father of sleep and is the most powerful, constantly demanding souls. While Bwonsamdi (who was a priest to Mueh'zala but elevated to a Loa) manages those souls while also protecting them from Mueh'zala, because of this Bwonsamdi gained a lot of favor and worship compared to Mueh'zala who's influence dwindled to only the Farraki.
    By Shadowlands came around, Mueh'zala helped set the whole chain of events with the Jailer, just so he can maintain control and remain as the true Loa of Death.. Bwonsamdi wasn't going to let him have his way so he, along with the Maw Walkers, defeated Mueh'zala and became the new Loa of Death.

    It should be worth mentioning that there are other Loas of the same variety.. like how there's two tiger Loa, Kimbul being the most well-known while there's the lesser known female tiger loa, Shirvallah (the one where that one troll priest turned into a giant tiger guy in OG Zul'Gurub? That's the loa responsible for that.)

    Another example is that there's Hakkar the Soulflayer, but there's another female counterpart named Quetz'lun in Zul'Drak.

    And it's also worth noting that there are 3 different snake related Loa. You have Hethiss from Zul'Gurub (though we never see the Loa themselves), Sserantus from Zul'Drak (though they were killed by their own prophet who absorbed their power), and Sethraliss, the Sethrak Loa in Vol'dun.

  11. #60671
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    God, it's still surreal to me that we finally got to see Mueh'zala in SL. Bro was known since Classic, I can't believe it took so long.
    And Nazjatar was known since as far back as TBC and we didn't get to go there until BFA.

  12. #60672
    Quote Originally Posted by LemonDemonGirl View Post
    Is 'Loa of Death' simply just a title, or can there be more than one?
    I'm under the impression that a loa's aspect is partly tied to their power and partly a social construct. They're sometimes just Wild Gods who naturally have powerful mojo and are worshipped as loa by trolls, sometimes they're trolls or animals who have been elevated to loa by another loa, and sometimes they're trolls or animals who have been made loa by their worshippers by sacrificing mojo to them, like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    So I guess it depends on what you mean by Loa of Death. There are several loa who have powers over death that have either arisen naturally in the same way we can naturally develop powers over magic and the Light or been given to them by or taken from another loa, and there are several loa who might not actually have any powers related to their aspect at all but a group of trolls have decided that they represent that aspect anyway.

    Three groups of trolls who don't share a society could easily independently decide that three separate Wild Gods or troll spirits are the one true Loa of Death and they'd all be correct, and three separate Wild Gods could naturally have death-related powers and either not be considered loa at all or be considered loa of an aspect other than death.

    I find it unlikely that one society would have multiple loa of the exact same aspect. It's more likely that they would be considered loa of similar but technically different aspects, or as avatars or incarnations of the same loa (e.g., before De Other Side, Bwonsamdi could have either been considered Loa of Graves rather than Loa of Death and therefore overlapping partly but not entirely with Mueh'zala, or he could be considered a lesser avatar of Mueh'zala).

    For what it's worth, there's a third Loa of Death (technically "Loa of the Grave") named Samedi that we don't know anything about. It might just be another name for Bwonsamdi since they're both based on Baron Samedi, or it could be another agent of Mueh'zala, or a completely unrelated loa with the same title (and seemingly powers over death, since souls can be sent to them).

  13. #60673
    Herald of the Titans Worldshaper's Avatar
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    I wonder if the 10.2.6 patch will be contained within the Dragon Isles, under a sort of "season of adventure" moniker. We're approaching S4 which will already be a bit like that, with older raids brought back. So having it all take place under a "cool adventures taking place around the Dragon Isles" umbrella would make sense.

    It would fit well with the popularity of Season of Discovery in Classic, too.

    What were the "secrets" discussed by the Nightsquall's crew, said to be hidden on the Dragon Isles?

    Tweaks to class abilities, in a Torghast/SoD-rune kind of way?

    Fun spin on existing world quests and events?

    Pirates arriving in greater number around the Isles, carrying cool treasure and transmogs for us to collect?

    Clues about the future?

    Player housing in the form of a ship we'll use in Khaz Algar?

    Fight the naga alongside pirates?

    It'll be exciting to see the PTR for sure!

  14. #60674
    I'm really not expecting much from 10.2.6... Like 10.0.7 was the Forbidden Reach patch, but then 10.1.7 was the Fury Incarnate where it focused heavily on the Dreamsurges and the Night Elf/Forsaken storylines.

    So to me it sounds like they might split up what was going to be in 10.2.7 into 10.2.6 just hold us over until the TTW Alpha.

  15. #60675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I'm really not expecting much from 10.2.6... Like 10.0.7 was the Forbidden Reach patch, but then 10.1.7 was the Fury Incarnate where it focused heavily on the Dreamsurges and the Night Elf/Forsaken storylines.

    So to me it sounds like they might split up what was going to be in 10.2.7 into 10.2.6 just hold us over until the TTW Alpha.
    I think it's an opportunity to provide lightweight story content to frame S4, if nothing else. Instead of just: "here are the same raids again, but weird," it could be "arrrr matey! Cap'n Nightsquall be roaming the seas o' Azeroth again! Plunder the secrets of the Dragon Isles, discover hidden powers and treasure!"

  16. #60676
    I'm speculating that they're adding some kind of new feature or mode that'll be evergreen beyond DF. The secrecy they're hyping up makes me think it's not a variation of something we already have or they've mentioned before, like Hardcore mode for retail (lol) or Fated open world content.

    Whatever that could be, I have no idea. Some devs keep liking pirate reaction gifs on Twitter and a former dev vaguely hinted this may be the Nightsquall stuff he wrote for 10.0.7 but never got to work on himself.

    But the devs also were hyping up the Gilneas reclamation when 10.2.5 got announced, so you know, tempered expectations and all that.

  17. #60677
    I think if it's Plunder Isle, it may be a hint that moving forward patches don't have to adhere to the location and theming of the current expansion.

    So even if it's more thematically aligned, the same could happen with Undermine in TWW. Not the same location, maybe not even the same storyline.

  18. #60678
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think if it's Plunder Isle, it may be a hint that moving forward patches don't have to adhere to the location and theming of the current expansion.

    So even if it's more thematically aligned, the same could happen with Undermine in TWW. Not the same location, maybe not even the same storyline.
    I wouldn't exactly say that later patches will not adhere to the expansion they come out in, just only if the expansion was cut short or is wrapped up. Like we couldn't have a Plunder Isle patch at any point in DF until the plot was finished. Same with Shadowlands how after the Jailer was defeated, we get extra stories about the Scourge in Ghostlands.

    Though isn't Kezan/Undermine, Khaz Algar, and Tel'abim close to each other? So if anything we might have 3 involved with Undermine probably serving as comedic relief megadungeon like all the others like Karazhan, Mechagon, Tavza'vesh, and Dawn of the Infinites...

    The post main story stuff like say 11.2.5 or 11.2.7 (In case there isn't an 11.3) we would have plots revolving around stuff going in Kalimdor like the Botani and Saberon in the Barrens.. or how the Mag'har are settling in.. or something else entirely.

  19. #60679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post
    I'm speculating that they're adding some kind of new feature or mode that'll be evergreen beyond DF. The secrecy they're hyping up makes me think it's not a variation of something we already have or they've mentioned before, like Hardcore mode for retail (lol) or Fated open world content.

    Whatever that could be, I have no idea. Some devs keep liking pirate reaction gifs on Twitter and a former dev vaguely hinted this may be the Nightsquall stuff he wrote for 10.0.7 but never got to work on himself.

    But the devs also were hyping up the Gilneas reclamation when 10.2.5 got announced, so you know, tempered expectations and all that.
    I think its very wise to temper your expectations.
    We have seen many stiff that was hyped beforehand and ended up being very slim content. They hyped blood elf costomization, they hyped Gilneas. I dont fall for it again, but the expectations on this page alone is already giving dissappointment vibes tbh.

  20. #60680
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post
    I'm speculating that they're adding some kind of new feature or mode that'll be evergreen beyond DF. The secrecy they're hyping up makes me think it's not a variation of something we already have or they've mentioned before, like Hardcore mode for retail (lol) or Fated open world content.

    Whatever that could be, I have no idea. Some devs keep liking pirate reaction gifs on Twitter and a former dev vaguely hinted this may be the Nightsquall stuff he wrote for 10.0.7 but never got to work on himself.

    But the devs also were hyping up the Gilneas reclamation when 10.2.5 got announced, so you know, tempered expectations and all that.
    It feels like it could be huge with the secrecy, but you're completely right, the Gilneas reclaimation had a lot of excitement behind it and just fell flat to most people. But then again, the Trading Post came in 10.0.5, and Forbidden Reach in 10.0.7, an evergreen feature and a zone with dailies, so Blizzard seems to be experimenting with the content basis for these smaller patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I wouldn't exactly say that later patches will not adhere to the expansion they come out in, just only if the expansion was cut short or is wrapped up. Like we couldn't have a Plunder Isle patch at any point in DF until the plot was finished. Same with Shadowlands how after the Jailer was defeated, we get extra stories about the Scourge in Ghostlands.

    Though isn't Kezan/Undermine, Khaz Algar, and Tel'abim close to each other? So if anything we might have 3 involved with Undermine probably serving as comedic relief megadungeon like all the others like Karazhan, Mechagon, Tavza'vesh, and Dawn of the Infinites...

    The post main story stuff like say 11.2.5 or 11.2.7 (In case there isn't an 11.3) we would have plots revolving around stuff going in Kalimdor like the Botani and Saberon in the Barrens.. or how the Mag'har are settling in.. or something else entirely.
    Although I was once fully unconvinced we'd see Undermine in 11.0, I think that I've 180'd the course and fully agree it'll be the 11.1.0 or 11.1.5 zone/megadungeon. It's too coincidental to not happen. And, if we're looking at the evidence, Teriz was right; Undermine is mentioned for the first time in Legion during the Community Feast event. Normally that feels like nothing, but we did get a Nerubian reference on a trash item in Zaralek. Again, Teriz was on the money with that one. I think Undermine in this situation would be a perfect semi-humorous breakaway from the caverns under the Isle of Dorn and what seems to be a relatively darker story tone than Dragonflight's.

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