The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Worldshaper]

Am I the only one who actually prefers having a PTR? Datamining and testing is content, too. It makes the time between patches seem shorter, and lets you get excited about what's on the horizon even if you can't play it quite yet.

This black box mystery "just trust us bro" approach to new content isn't doing it for me.

[Marlamin]

Am I the only one who actually prefers having a PTR? Datamining and testing is content, too. It makes the time between patches seem shorter, and lets you get excited about what's on the horizon even if you can't play it quite yet.

This black box mystery "just trust us bro" approach to new content isn't doing it for me.

I would prefer having PTR purely for external tool/work-related reasons so I can actually play content on release day, but as a player I would prefer no PTR and things being a complete surprise when they go live for the first time, preferably at the same time in all regions. Yes, there's the issue of stability and stuff like story feedback, but I personally don't care about that enough as long as it's playable.

[Makabreska]

Am I the only one who actually prefers having a PTR? Datamining and testing is content, too. It makes the time between patches seem shorter, and lets you get excited about what's on the horizon even if you can't play it quite yet.

This black box mystery "just trust us bro" approach to new content isn't doing it for me.

Not much of a problem for me if it affects minor patches like this. I an easily survive few weeks w/o knowing what is to come.

[Cheezits]

Am I the only one who actually prefers having a PTR? Datamining and testing is content, too. It makes the time between patches seem shorter, and lets you get excited about what's on the horizon even if you can't play it quite yet.

This black box mystery "just trust us bro" approach to new content isn't doing it for me.

They should describe the patch a little more even if they don't get into details ("there will be story quests" vs "we reclaim Gilneas")

I am not a fan of social media bullying to cause story changes, so I have no problem with quests being encrypted. But hiding EVERYTHING about a patch is silly and anti-consumer friendly like they have been doing well with.

All the hiding does is make me think this patch will be ever weaker filler than the last patch.

[Reive]

disappointing, looks like it's going to be the usual once and done event. also, shared between classic and retail? even more disappointing. when is retail getting something unique and fun?

[Marlamin]

disappointing, looks like it's going to be the usual once and done event. also, shared between classic and retail? even more disappointing. when is retail getting something unique and fun?

It is for retail, I think they just mention it as being available for Classic players because it won't require a Dragonflight license and a sub will do.

[Worldshaper]

Ah well, we shall see.

It being an event, and playable in both Classic and Modern, and seemingly on the theme of Season of Discovery... oh, and pirate flag, tree, chicken, etc...

I'm guessing it needs to take place in a physical location that exists in both versions of the game, so somewhere in the Old World.

Although I suppose the event could just take place anywhere if it involves pirates invading our shores or something. But it won't be Dragon Isles-specific.

Can we find clues to what it might be from current SoD data? Anything about pirates in Stranglethorn Vale or anything?

[Nymrohd]

I just hope it isn't buggy, whatever it is.

[Ersula]

Am I the only one who actually prefers having a PTR? Datamining and testing is content, too. It makes the time between patches seem shorter, and lets you get excited about what's on the horizon even if you can't play it quite yet.

This black box mystery "just trust us bro" approach to new content isn't doing it for me.

It does help the Hype. And not just allowing WoW-centric content creators to do more consistent coverage. Seeds of Renewal was a smaller tier* so 3 months with no news has the same effect as a big content drought. (what_were_they_thinking.mp3)

*meaning a content tier on the smaller side: The closest comparison in Sanctum of Domination, and that had a much bigger raid than Amirdrassil.

They specifically mention it's experimentation, a risky one at that, treating it as a binary "this is their stance on PTR testing now" let alone something that somehow now applies to all content, without knowing the extensiveness of 10.2.6's content, is quite the stretch (especially given they've already announced TWW Alpha/Beta, which is public testing).

True. My frustration is more that the promise of "way more to come" Dragonflight content before TWW so far has been:

• 10.2.5: Dragonriding everywhere, but please forget that this was already functional before 10.2
• 10.2.6: ??? (this patch is a secret, and its apparently revolutionary, but not revolutionary enough to warrant letting the public bugtest it. Not to mention how many internal testers were layed off last week.)
• 10.2.7: Not a secret, but terminology we have no reference for.

[Marlamin]

Ah well, we shall see.

It being an event, and playable in both Classic and Modern, and seemingly on the theme of Season of Discovery... oh, and pirate flag, tree, chicken, etc...

Where are people getting this? Do I have reading comprehension issue?

All I get from the post on that is:
- They want to experiment more in the way that SoD is in terms of not putting things on PTR and only showing them off once they release. Not theme-wise.
- It will be playable for classic players on retail, not on classic. I think they specified that purely to make it clear it wouldn't require a Dragonflight license.

True. My frustration is more that the promise of "way more to come" Dragonflight content before TWW so far has been:

• 10.2.5: Dragonriding everywhere, but please forget that this was already functional before 10.2
• 10.2.6: ??? (this patch is a secret, and its apparently revolutionary, but not revolutionary enough to warrant letting the public bugtest it. Not to mention how many internal testers were layed off last week.)
• 10.2.7: Not a secret, but terminology we have no reference for.

That frustration is understandable, I think this is due to pretty much only a part of the open-world/systems teams only still being on Dragonflight and everyone else being on TWW, its patches and some already on Midnight (yup).

[Worldshaper]

Where are people getting this? Do I have reading comprehension issue?

All I get from the post on that is:
- They want to experiment more in the way that SoD is in terms of not putting things on PTR and only showing them off once they release. Not theme-wise.
- It will be playable for classic players on retail, not on classic. I think they specified that purely to make it clear it wouldn't require a Dragonflight license.

No, you're right. I re-read it and it does specifically say it is an event for patch 10.2.6 of Dragonflight, available to all players with a subscription.

So WoW Modern, but not on the Dragon Isles I guess.

[Ersula]

That frustration is understandable, I think this is due to pretty much only a part of the open-world/systems teams only still being on Dragonflight and everyone else being on TWW, its patches and some already on Midnight (yup).

Remember how that sounded so cool, and is now basically meaningless because they layed off hundreds of people between Blizzcon & now? I don't think they have "more people than ever" working on 12.0 anymore. In fact they probably put a ridiculous amount of people onto 12.0 who had jobs they knew were doomed just so they could include that soundbite for Blizzcon coverage.

Before you say "they said expansion content was not affected by the layoffs" that was clearly a lie, because they layed off a lot of asset designers. Those aren't the people making classic or late dragonflight content. Those are expansion jobs.

When a developer says "the layoffs will not affect future releases" there's zero reason to believe that's the truth. (Because that's what they always say)

[Marlamin]

Remember how that sounded so cool, and is now basically meaningless because they layed off hundreds of people between Blizzcon & now? I don't think they have "more people than ever" working on 12.0 anymore.

Barely anyone on the WoW team has been let go and if they were they weren't the type of dev working on content (or a dev at all), I think that more people working on the next expansion than ever is still very much correct although I'm sure there's a bit of a motivation dip right now.

Before you say "they said expansion content was not affected by the layoffs" that was clearly a lie, because they layed off a lot of asset designers. Those aren't the people making classic or late dragonflight content. Those are expansion jobs.

As you edited that in minutes after the above post, I'd love to see a source for "a lot of asset designers".

When a developer says "the layoffs will not affect future releases" there's zero reason to believe that's the truth. (Because that's what they always say)

I'm basing this off of what people I've seen being laid off as well as statements from colleagues on their team not being affected, not on what any PR blurb said.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean they're working within the parameters of 18 months production timeline rather than 24 months. Its' going to be harder to deliver a great product than ever before in WoW's long winded production history.

Its just a shame Blizzard decided to keep this hidden away from their audience until Alpha/Beta interviews may provide a clarification if they are kind enough. But, unfortunately it benefits them more to stay quiet that we are no longer a 24 month cycle product and keep it a surprise for 11.2 end of The War Within.

[Cheezits]

No, you're right. I re-read it and it does specifically say it is an event for patch 10.2.6 of Dragonflight, available to all players with a subscription.

So WoW Modern, but not on the Dragon Isles I guess.

Which checks out with a Plunder Isle patch that is completely divorced from Dragonflight, but it feels incredibly unlikely we are getting a new landmass. Based on the quality of 10.2.5, and their post-expac reliance on "shit that's already in the files/doesn't require the art team" it will probably just be long questline puzzle with some freebie low-effort stuff (Druid of the Flame skintone, Bakar mounts)

I think people are mad and disappointed about the size/scope of the post-expac content, but it's still content, so it's not like they are lying. A single questline that rewards a mount and tmog is content.

Heritage quests will be one each, Harbinger quests may just be an hour tops like Gilneas (if that), Pandamonium may just be an entire expansion rehash through timewalking. They don't have creator devs for these patches and have to cobble together stuff.

[Reive]

That frustration is understandable, I think this is due to pretty much only a part of the open-world/systems teams only still being on Dragonflight and everyone else being on TWW, its patches and some already on Midnight (yup).

i don't like this tbh. their approach is delivering faster content with no depth or quality. we're getting less features in favor low quality events and storylines.

[Cheezits]

i don't like this tbh. their approach is delivering faster content with no depth or quality. we're getting less features in favor low quality events and storylines.

As opposed to no content? Because that is the alternative, and I doubt these tiny patches are taking away from TWW/Midnight development.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean I like the Minor Patch spam that happened in Dragonflight since it suits my playstyle more, but I also recognize that the Major Patches for Dragonflight cannot be the norm going forward.

We need strong Major Patches with bold ideas, creative output and concepts.

The Minor Patches cannot take the role of Major Patches. I think having this surprise concept for Major Patch would be way better received than doing this with a Minor Patch after you cut the expansion abruptly after the Tree Story pivot in a Dragon focused expansion and a miserable 10+ year story conclusion to Gilneas being reclaimed done in the span of a 15 minute questchain.

Obviously, I also recognize that Minor Patch Spam will at some point become a detriment and if they are going to keep spamming them at the current frequency and even increase frequency due to the removal of future Major Patches then we're going in a very weird territory with a much more social, RP, Hangout World environment than a Progression style MMORPG.

[Cheezits]

I mean I like the Minor Patch spam that happened in Dragonflight since it suits my playstyle more, but I also recognize that the Major Patches for Dragonflight cannot be the norm going forward.

We need strong Major Patches with bold ideas, creative output and concepts.

The Minor Patches cannot take the role of Major Patches. I think having this surprise concept for Major Patch would be way better received than doing this with a Minor Patch after you cut the expansion abruptly after the Tree Story pivot in a Dragon focused expansion.

BFA tried that, it failed horribly, and every major patch after was fairly standard. It's not feasible to experiment for big patches that are supposed to hold players for months, because if most players dont like it, Blizz can't just repair it in a snap and have to waste minor/major patch time to fix their mistakes.

- - - Updated - - -

Obviously, I also recognize that Minor Patch Spam will at some point become a detriment and if they are going to keep spamming them at the current frequency and even increase frequency due to the removal of future Major Patches then we're going in a very weird territory with a much more social, RP, Hangout World environment than a Progression style MMORPG.

If anything it will get better once players reign in their expectations for post-expansion content. These baby patches are very very different than Forbidden Reach and Dawn.

I'm sure that mid-expansion patches will be decently sized in TWW, but once the story is over, the devs have to focus on the next expansion.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

BFA tried that, it failed horribly, and every major patch after was fairly standard. It's not feasible to experiment for big patches that are supposed to hold players for months, because if they dont like it, they can't just repair it and have to waste minor patch time to fix their mistakes.

Sure, but they still experimented and again I am not talking about System Design in these Major Patches. I'm talking more Evergreen Feature development and more diversity in the Major Patches than just Zone and Raid Copy & Paste.

If anything it will get better once players reign in their expectations for post-expansion content. These baby patches are very very different than Exiles Reach and Dawn.

I'm sure that mid-expansion patches will be decently sized in TWW, but once the story is over, the devs have to focus on the next expansion.

Okay, this is such a ridiculous thing because of the way game development works.

1) I mean Blizzard want people to get accustomed to this new reality because it suits their business interest. If players are happy and acceptable of 15 minute quest chains and quirky stuff instead of a Zone and Raid then they can cut the budget going forward.

2) Either, we have to assume that all planning for expansions is done within the expansion or we have to assess the fact that The War Withins' ending point has already been established as being 11.1/11.2 due to their coyness of recognizing the sensitivity of answering straightforward what is going on with The War Withins' major patch amount.

3) The story is over when they say its over, considering their track record and how we ended up at the top of Amirdrassil this does lead me to believe they don't have the best interest at heart for the Intellectual Property or the consumer in that regard so I'd say that to assess their decision of ending the story as anything but for business interest is quite silly at this point in time.