The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

He’s not an Outland elemental. He’s arguably not even an actual elemental.

Only a small whisper of Murmur was summoned to Outland, and he wasn’t ever killed he was banished.

He’s also never been summoned or even mentioned on Azeroth. That’s the more important point. He seems to be only known on Draenor/Outland. Unless we’re going to have a third expansion on Draenor, I’m not seeing this character as an expansion threat.

[Nightshade711]

He’s also never been summoned or even mentioned on Azeroth. That’s the more important point. He seems to be only known on Draenor/Outland. Unless we’re going to have a third expansion on Draenor, I’m not seeing this character as an expansion threat.

You’re saying something that’s part of the universe who is described like this…

Murmur is so powerful that its entrance into existence shattered all reality around it. Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy entire worlds

In the beginning"... "So far away"... such phrases cannot begin to describe this elemental's origin. Its existence heralds pure destruction. Worlds shatter and the pieces scatter at its whim. Only the truly mad would think to summon it. Perhaps there is yet time to banish Murmur before it fully enters Outland

…could never be an expansion threat… but some random space goat could?

(Not to mention that we’ve had significantly less as expansion threats)

[huth]

That’s a bit of a stretch don’t you think? So someone on Azeroth is going to pick up the story of Murmur from Outland and try to summon them on Azeroth because………???

Then I suppose we get ETC to come in and play his latest heavy metal hit to stop him?

You've yet to provide anything more credible for your own claims. Yet you refuse to entertain the possibility that they can be dismissed just as easily.

[Teriz]

You’re saying something that’s part of the universe who is described like this…

…could never be an expansion threat… but some random space goat could?

Yrel is pretty far from a "random space goat". She's a rather popular lore character.

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You've yet to provide anything more credible for your own claims. Yet you refuse to entertain the possibility that they can be dismissed just as easily.

I never said it wasn't possible, anything is possible. However, some things just seem a bit more likely than others. The idea that we're going to have an expansion revolving around some random raid boss from TBC doesn't seem very likely. Even less likely than that is that we would call up the ETC; a character that has zero heroic exploits in WoW's history and just sits outside random cities and faires and plays heavy metal music, to stop said random raid boss from TBC doesn't seem like a viable expansion concept.

Meanwhile, Yrel leading the army we saw in the Maghar intro quest into Azeroth seems likely. Along with said army, we can get Arrakoa and Ogres as playable races. Two playable races that WoW players have long wanted to play as. In that expansion, you COULD get a patch where some of the new arrivals from Draenor attempt to summon Murmur to cause some chaos, but that's about it.

Another possibility would be Undermine, since Blizzard has stated that after Zalarek Caverns, more underground areas were possible in the future, and developers stated that they wanted Goblin players to experience Undermine at some point in the future. Though I find that highly doubtful since that would involve Tinker, and we're coming right off the release of the Evoker class. Of course the Tinker could be a full support class, so who knows?

Even that Mystical pirate expansion concept about Nightsquall sounds more likely than an expansion based around Murmur.

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Please stop derailing this thread.
Nobody cares who is right about the lore, it's a thread about the expansion and speculation about the next expansion.

We're talking about future expansions....

[Therougetitan]

Wowhead has an interesting post about trinkets based off past legendary weapons. There is Azzinoth, Doomhammer, Frostmourne, Sulfuras and Val'anyr. But there is also Seschenal which is Eonar's weapon. The other weapons are references to past weapons players received. But given it is a time themed patch what if they took advantage of it and teased something from the future? Emerald dream will be the next zone/raid so maybe Seschenal will appear as a weapon.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/paracau...-10-1-5-333088

[huth]

However, some things just seem a bit more likely than others.

No, you're just biased towards your own ideas. They are no more likely. Yrel and the Lightbound are, to the best of our knowledge, no longer in existence.


And for what it's worth, Chen has had exactly nothing in extra lore between WC3 TFT and MoP. If they want to use ETC for anything, they will simply create that lore.

You're not giving any relevant arguments for why your idea is better. You just assert it is and refuse to entertain the notion that you could just be wrong. Your personal opinion is not a relevant data point.

[Revamp Man]

Ok iridikron allies with the infinite
But why??
Assuming the iridikron is the one from the present that means we still have 2 left
The infinite now have the ability to do one of two things by going back to when galakrond died
1. They corrupt the would be aspects
Or
2. They find a way to empower moruzond there to full power thus removing the requirement for nozdormu to fall thus breaking that cycle and changing their fates.

I also believe they are aiming to try and revive galakrond somehow or want to use his body for something. What if galakrond wasn't formed by old god blood getting into water but he ate a dying old god after they were torn apart by the others

[Nightshade711]

Ok iridikron allies with the infinite
But why??
Assuming the iridikron is the one from the present that means we still have 2 left
The infinite now have the ability to do one of two things by going back to when galakrond died
1. They corrupt the would be aspects
Or
2. They find a way to empower moruzond there to full power thus removing the requirement for nozdormu to fall thus breaking that cycle and changing their fates.

I also believe they are aiming to try and revive galakrond somehow or want to use his body for something. What if galakrond wasn't formed by old god blood getting into water but he ate a dying old god after they were torn apart by the others

Tbh I think Iridikron could also be trying to drain power from Galakrond to make himself Galakrond 2.0

[Marlamin]

No, you spend your time nitpicking about lore and try to be right by throwing the ball at each other in turn. So it's no longer speculation...

While harsh I think there's some truth there, when it becomes arguing/a back and forth (while it's been polite) I don't really think it properly fits the speculation banner anymore. There is no use in defending one's speculation, it's speculation.

[Nymrohd]

Ok iridikron allies with the infinite
But why??
Assuming the iridikron is the one from the present that means we still have 2 left
The infinite now have the ability to do one of two things by going back to when galakrond died
1. They corrupt the would be aspects
Or
2. They find a way to empower moruzond there to full power thus removing the requirement for nozdormu to fall thus breaking that cycle and changing their fates.

I also believe they are aiming to try and revive galakrond somehow or want to use his body for something. What if galakrond wasn't formed by old god blood getting into water but he ate a dying old god after they were torn apart by the others

I guess we'll find out soon enough. There must be some comment he makes during the encounter that gives it up

[Dracullus]

I think it's safe to assume that whatever Iridikron plans to do here, he will succeed. That is usual how expacs go: Garrosh got his power, Guldan took control, N'zoth broke free, Jailer defeated Arbiter. Only exception was Legion, but even while opening way to Argus was Illidan's goal, it still made Legion invasion problem worse.

I'm starting to think main story will wrap up in 10.2. We already cover "main villain is gathering power" part in 10.1.5 and it would line up with Blizzcon right after raid cinematic in October. Iridikron would be for raid in western Ohn'ahran area, icy dragon would be boss for Azure span tower (alone or together with Fyrakk, but I think he will die elsewhere maybe during 10.1.7). As for filling 2024, they have a lot of choices actually (beside obvious "they will screw up Pandaria style (releasing everything in first year)":

- minor patches + bonus season in March (all DF raids up, new set of M+) + release in Summer
- minor patches + recycled raids in March (M+ style from older expacs) + bonus shorter season in Summer (all DF raids up, new set of M+) + release for Christmas
- 10.3 not connected to main story, let's say Pirate patch + minor patches + bonus shorter season in Summer + release for Christmas.

[Teriz]

No, you're just biased towards your own ideas. They are no more likely. Yrel and the Lightbound are, to the best of our knowledge, no longer in existence.

TBF, we got a hint of Yrel during Shadowlands;



https://www.wowhead.com/news/battle-...nd-yrel-322224

Nothing earth-shattering, but interesting nonetheless.

And for what it's worth, Chen has had exactly nothing in extra lore between WC3 TFT and MoP. If they want to use ETC for anything, they will simply create that lore.

Actually there was the empty keg quest in Vanilla (which assured that Chen and Pandaria were canon in WoW), the Pandaren Brewmaster class in the WoW TTRPG which was canon at the time and expanded the lore, and the Pandaren Monk pet that we got in WotLK which pretty much led to the class a few expansions later.

You're not giving any relevant arguments for why your idea is better. You just assert it is and refuse to entertain the notion that you could just be wrong. Your personal opinion is not a relevant data point.

Murmur never appearing in anything other than Draenor content is a relevant argument. The ETC not matching up with Murmur (or any other content) on any level because it lacks a lore basis is a relevant argument. Yrel being a popular character, a new type of enemy (light-based), and opening the door to new possible races is also a relevant argument.

[huth]

Nothing

Yep, that's all you actually have.

And no, none of your arguments are relevant. None of that even matters at all. Especially not anything not having lore - lore can be created and is constantly so. A character not having any lore for something simply means the devs are free to have them develop however they like. The more established a character is, the more restricted they are on what can be done with it.

[Teriz]

Yep, that's all you actually have.

And no, none of your arguments are relevant. None of that even matters at all. Especially not anything not having lore - lore can be created and is constantly so. A character not having any lore for something simply means the devs are free to have them develop however they like. The more established a character is, the more restricted they are on what can be done with it.

A character sort of needs to have lore before they build an expansion around them. I can't think of any expansion based on a character(s) that have no lore.

[Revamp Man]

No idea but the stake that happens seems to be centered around infinite flight and rotting with the corpse of Galakrond. Besides, what is this artifact that Iridikrond uses? Is he looking for a way to absorb his rotting power or somehow resurrect him? And why ? Also seems to me that the last dungeon boss with the gnolls doesn't die at the end, she stuns us and teleports. Will she play a role in this whole story? Is there a link? There's also Vyranoth who's probably looking to take on the Emerald Dream, but again, why do that?

I have way too many questions. We do not yet have enough elements in our possession to understand all this.

It seems the Incarnates have a master plan. All we know today is that they seek to purify their people from the corruption of the titans. So far we did not really understand what this meant, then we could read in the books of Uldaman where it is said that Odyn, following the corruption of the waters by Yogg-Saron and its purification, ordered Tyr to imbue the waters of Uldorus with magic of Order so he can better "control" the Dragons and be more..."malleable".

Which is quite a shocking revelation. This explains the motivations of incarnates. But beyond that, even if they succeed, what is the purpose? Is there a connection with infinite flight? Or with the forged by the titans "rebels" who are against the will of their creators, the Titans? All of this may even have a broader connection to Avaloren. What would tie in with the next expansion, and Nightsquall would be the intro since he's the only one who went there and came back "unscathed"? We know from the books that he is looking for an artifact in the Dragon Isles.

It's all extremely exciting and I can't wait to see how all of this storyline unfolds!

I think that brackenhide is connected to the infinite and iridikron
Decay is the theme of the gnolls
The artifact iridikron uses COULD be the disc that we look for in uldaman
This item is meant to help empower the dragon aspects

What if the goal is to use it to empower iridikron with galakrond's energy which from the undeath theme could become decay if mixed with earth

[loras]

Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)
That makes a lot of sense, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a dragon to be an aspect. A full-fledged dragon, not an offshoot like Drakthyr are. I don't think Drakthyr can even lay eggs.
Elite Tauren Cheiftan predates all that dragon lore. None of the aspects were even a thing until long after Warcraft's first band was introduced. You like to make these big absolutist statements while always missing a big obvious detail. The latest class only "comes from" that existing lore in a tangential way: Evoker's "prismatic dragons" have nothing to do with "chromatic dragons" and were invented wholesale for this expansion.
ETC was a playable recruit hero in W3; Like Brewmaster & Dark Ranger. And if you want to acknowledge hearthstone expansion lore as a positive you might want to look at what the theme for the latest one is. (It's bards.)N'zoth appears only in the Time Rifts, so speaking of joke characters, how does it feel to have the worst of the Old Gods being reduced to a joke character?

ETC was playable in WC3? Ah, you mean the tauren hero unit with zero connection to bards, just a reskinned Cairne.

If we're borrowing from hearthstone anyway one of its earlier expansions centred around gnomes vs. goblins, and the theme has repeated if i recall correctly; later on there was a villainous tinker named dr. boom you could play as.

Not saying the bard theme isn't there in the latest expansion, but just as in WoW: The support for tinkers is just leagues ahead of bards.

Not saying either is likely or unlikely, just saying that tinkers have by far the better existing support for being added based on in-game sources as things stand at present. If they want to add bards then they will, but it'll be yet more out of the blue than the drac'thyr.

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Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)
That makes a lot of sense, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a dragon to be an aspect. A full-fledged dragon, not an offshoot like Drakthyr are. I don't think Drakthyr can even lay eggs.
Elite Tauren Cheiftan predates all that dragon lore. None of the aspects were even a thing until long after Warcraft's first band was introduced. You like to make these big absolutist statements while always missing a big obvious detail. The latest class only "comes from" that existing lore in a tangential way: Evoker's "prismatic dragons" have nothing to do with "chromatic dragons" and were invented wholesale for this expansion.
ETC was a playable recruit hero in W3; Like Brewmaster & Dark Ranger. And if you want to acknowledge hearthstone expansion lore as a positive you might want to look at what the theme for the latest one is. (It's bards.)N'zoth appears only in the Time Rifts, so speaking of joke characters, how does it feel to have the worst of the Old Gods being reduced to a joke character?

ETC was playable in WC3? Ah, you mean the tauren hero unit with zero connection to bards, just a reskinned Cairne.

If we're borrowing from hearthstone anyway one of its earlier expansions centred around gnomes vs. goblins, and the theme has repeated if i recall correctly; later on there was a villainous tinker named dr. boom you could play as.

Not saying the bard theme isn't there in the latest expansion, but just as in WoW: The support for tinkers is just leagues ahead of bards.

Not saying either is likely or unlikely, just saying that tinkers have by far the better existing support for being added based on in-game sources as things stand at present. If they want to add bards then they will, but it'll be yet more out of the blue than the drac'thyr.

A.k.a. they have some serious work ahead of them if they want to do that.

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He isn’t talking about Tinker.
He’s talking about some “explorer” class.

Everybody and their mothers know about Tinkers and their place in lore especially after BfA.

Oh, hadn't even heard of that (what's that even supposed to be? A conquistador? That's either just a warrior or an overzealous "dark" retridin), figured redacted would be tinker since he got a lot of flak for a bit overenthousiastically supporting that.

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There's good evidence going both ways. I'm generally partial to the idea that they'd fit best as a specialization simply on account of the fact they'd need an expansion theme conducive to their addition if they were to be a class, and because it would be easiest to limit them entirely to a support role if they were a specialization designed to fill that role, but anything can happen now that Dracthyr exist.



I definitely doubt that a Bard class would manifest referencing either of those precedents; Teriz is definitely incorrect in assuming that a class could be ever be released based on that particular theming. I figure that if there is a Bard class, it would have to emerge as a wholly new entity akin to the Evokers than from the alleged basis existing in those two gaggles of joke characters.



No.

Fair.

Also i apparantly mistakenly thought he referred to tinkers.
The explorer thing doesn't even seem worth a serious consideration.

And yeah, a new basis might work for bards.
Murmur comes to mind as an absurdly powerful "patron" or "source" of acoustic destruction, sitens as examples of manipulation and recently we've heard of Ohn'ahra's song manifesting winds (probably metaphorical, but they can still take that whichever way they want.
Then there are the void's whispers which tie in nicely with d&d's college of shadows, one could borrow fron the rogue-but-not-quite archetype of honorable yet exhibitionistic duelist too for martial prowess and tying in to the college of blades. And then for a third specc one could go with something more acting focussed, maybe tossing in references to the college of glamour, fairies from ardenweald, intrigues from revendreth, maybe a reference to Aszhara's peculiar brand of performance cfntruc ritualistic spellcrafting that she used to free N'zoth (seriously her fight is memorablemostly for her accompanying incantation which serves as effective narration of combat choreography intertwining with excellent experience based storytelling... honestly one of those moments i feel like i might've been too harsh on BfA).

Anyway where were we? Impromptu brainstorm session for potential bases for a new bard class?
You'll have to excuse my indulgence in my own randomness. Or not really, being annoyed, disappointed or eye-rollingly bemused(probably wrong meaning here but hey) is fine as well as this sort of turns into a meta thing.

I should sleep.

[Joszef Kiprich]

Any race or class can be added in the future. Dracthyr and Evokers showed us that. They were never mentioned in lore before DI but can be shoehorned in into existing lore.

[Teriz]

Any race or class can be added in the future. Dracthyr and Evokers showed us that. They were never mentioned in lore before DI but can be shoehorned in into existing lore.

Dracthyr are merely the playable form of WoW’s dragon characters. Evoker is the name given to dragon power set. In short, you get race/class called Dracthyr Evoker because you can’t have a race/class called Dragon Dragon.

The idea that they came from nowhere is absurd, since they’re steeped in draconic lore.

[Joszef Kiprich]

Not gonna drag this down further, so this will be my last reply, but they did pull it out of thin air and then justified it with existing lore. Not saying there's anything wrong with it because it opens up a lot more possibilities.

[Nightshade711]

Any race or class can be added in the future. Dracthyr and Evokers showed us that. They were never mentioned in lore before DI but can be shoehorned in into existing lore.

Very true. The fact that there weren’t even any classes from WC3 that Evokers could’ve been based on is interesting for the future.

I am curious as to what the next class will be, but we’d probably have to wait another 4-5 years to find out unless Blizz somewhat breaks their pattern.

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they make something like “class skins” instead because of Ion’s comment on cosmetics.
But who knows how that would even work in practice.