The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

While i'm loathe to take his side in this: You do realise that tinker has miles more lore basis than bard at present, right?

ETC isn't involved in meaningful combat and blight boar is purely a joke character in lorewise dubious area of the game in the form of the darkmoon faire. I mean after N'zoth's surfacing that place would have been burnt go the ground given its obvious (and in hearthstone acknowledged) connection to the old gods.

Tinkers on the other hand have had implicit and explicit presence in the games since WC3, from the alchemist hero unit to goblin shredders and the plentiful machinery on the alliance side.
Other major factions have featured its themes strongly too, from the Legion in TBC and Legion to Ulduar's Mimiron, and arguably the iron horde too. Then of course there is the entire city of gnomeregan, and perhaps even the forsaken apothecaries too.
And that's all before BfA came along, showcasing Mechagon and Gallywix vs. the gnome king and his robot army, complete with mech suit shenanigans.

He isn’t talking about Tinker.
He’s talking about some “explorer” class.

Everybody and their mothers know about Tinkers and their place in lore especially after BfA.

[Teriz]

Ah yes, the [insert fanfic class] with no basis in lore has a better shot at becoming a class than something common in most RPGs that exists in WoW via ETC and Blight Boar.
(And Hearthstone and Hots)

Don’t get me wrong, I personally doubt Bard will happen as a fully fledged class anytime soon. I don’t see blizzard making an expansion that would match the Bard’s themes.

Uh Reno Jackson, Sir Finley, Starseeker, Brann, and Rafaam are all characters in WoW. As is the League of Explorers. You could even slap them into an expansion theme involving Avaloren or some other lost landmass where we use their expertise to uncover some world saving secret, whereas Rafaam tries to use it to do something dastardly.

That’s far more lore than what Bards have. Hell, we could have an Explorer class in 11.0.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

See if it is just an additional spec, it doesn't need nearly the same set up that a new class does. It even has many mog options (Antorus rogue tier is pretty much Bard mog). As for the reasoning, I'd assume it would be added specs to multiple classes. Not necessarily ALL of them but easily 2-4 new specs added to classes other than druid.

There's good evidence going both ways. I'm generally partial to the idea that they'd fit best as a specialization simply on account of the fact they'd need an expansion theme conducive to their addition if they were to be a class, and because it would be easiest to limit them entirely to a support role if they were a specialization designed to fill that role, but anything can happen now that Dracthyr exist.

While i'm loathe to take his side in this: You do realise that tinker has miles more lore basis than bard at present, right?

ETC isn't involved in meaningful combat and blight boar is purely a joke character in lorewise dubious area of the game in the form of the darkmoon faire. I mean after N'zoth's surfacing that place would have been burnt go the ground given its obvious (and in hearthstone acknowledged) connection to the old gods.

I definitely doubt that a Bard class would manifest referencing either of those precedents; Teriz is definitely incorrect in assuming that a class could be ever be released based on that particular theming. I figure that if there is a Bard class, it would have to emerge as a wholly new entity akin to the Evokers than from the alleged basis existing in those two gaggles of joke characters.

Uh Reno Jackson, Sir Finley, Starseeker, Brann, and Rafaam are all characters in WoW. As is the League of Explorers. You could even slap them into an expansion theme involving Avaloren or some other lost landmass where we use their expertise to uncover some world saving secret, whereas Rafaam tries to use it to do something dastardly.

No.

[huth]

Uh Reno Jackson, Sir Finley, Starseeker, Brann, and Rafaam are all characters in WoW. As is the League of Explorers. You could even slap them into an expansion theme involving Avaloren or some other lost landmass where we use their expertise to uncover some world saving secret, whereas Rafaam tries to use it to do something dastardly.

That’s far more lore than what Bards have. Hell, we could have an Explorer class in 11.0.

We're explorers already. That's not a class. It's more of a profession.

I definitely doubt that a Bard class would manifest referencing either of those precedents; Teriz is definitely incorrect in assuming that a class could be ever be released based on that particular theming. I figure that if there is a Bard class, it would have to emerge as a wholly new entity akin to the Evokers than from the alleged basis existing in those two gaggles of joke characters.

Eh, i'd argue a Bard that doesn't dabble at least a little in Metal doesn't belong in WarCraft. Definitely not exclusively, but it'd be just as unfitting to not have it at all.

[Teriz]

Again, the Evoker basis in lore comes from Chromatic dragons, the aspects, visages, the dragon isles, and other aspects of dragon lore.

Bards have nothing like that.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Eh, i'd argue a Bard that doesn't dabble at least a little in Metal doesn't belong in WarCraft. Definitely not exclusively, but it'd be just as unfitting to not have it at all.

I simply figure it would be a tad too silly and immersion-breaking. To risk circumstantial ad hominem, I figure Teriz is suggesting it precisely because it would make his preferred class look more suitable to the setting by comparison; to be exceptionally fair to him, I think all of his misguided efforts to falsely eliminate other prospects are ultimately superfluous because Tinkers do have strong basis in the lore and a fair chance of being made a class. Unfortunately, much like what happened with the Augmentation specialization, I think some have been made unfairly averse to the idea simply on account of Teriz running it into the ground.

[Aucald]

Let's not derail this into yet another fight over potential new classes, as while this thread is about future speculation, that topic tends to suck all the air out of the proverbial room and has enough dedicated other threads already.

[Ersula]

if we do explore the Dream, how much of the Dream will we explore in 10.2?

Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)

"Lead the way, Emberthal." Yeah, she's pretty much confirmed as Aspect.

That makes a lot of sense, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a dragon to be an aspect. A full-fledged dragon, not an offshoot like Drakthyr are. I don't think Drakthyr can even lay eggs.

Again, the Evoker basis in lore comes from Chromatic dragons, the aspects, visages, the dragon isles, and other aspects of dragon lore.

Bards have nothing like that.

Elite Tauren Cheiftan predates all that dragon lore. None of the aspects were even a thing until long after Warcraft's first band was introduced. You like to make these big absolutist statements while always missing a big obvious detail. The latest class only "comes from" that existing lore in a tangential way: Evoker's "prismatic dragons" have nothing to do with "chromatic dragons" and were invented wholesale for this expansion.

ETC isn't involved in meaningful combat and blight boar is purely a joke character in lorewise dubious area of the game in the form of the darkmoon faire. I mean after N'zoth's surfacing that place would have been burnt go the ground given its obvious (and in hearthstone acknowledged) connection to the old gods.

ETC was a playable recruit hero in W3; Like Brewmaster & Dark Ranger. And if you want to acknowledge hearthstone expansion lore as a positive you might want to look at what the theme for the latest one is. (It's bards.)

You cab reference Old Gods without actually having them. None of this means N'Zoth is physically still active or so.

N'zoth appears only in the Time Rifts, so speaking of joke characters, how does it feel to have the worst of the Old Gods being reduced to a joke character?

[Nymrohd]

So here is a concept.
What if 10.3's zone was in Avaloren with most of the continent hidden. You'd have the raid and everything in a part of a new continent that is OUTSIDE whatever shield is covering that place. The raid would be about preventing Iridikron and/or Murozond from getting inside but at the end of the raid the shield would be damaged and in the pre expansion event we would be taking the shield down.

[Khaza-R]

Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)

I would say this is a fair point. Unless I am mistaken, everyone is basing this off a datamined item we don't even know is from Dragonflight. It could just as easily be from a theoretical cut content patch in Shadowlands.

The only thing the theory really has going for it is the whole Koroleth storyline. Which basically went no where. But we do know the Primalist wanted access to the Emerald Dream for reasons.

So here is a concept.
What if 10.3's zone was in Avaloren with most of the continent hidden. You'd have the raid and everything in a part of a new continent that is OUTSIDE whatever shield is covering that place. The raid would be about preventing Iridikron and/or Murozond from getting inside but at the end of the raid the shield would be damaged and in the pre expansion event we would be taking the shield down.

I think its going to be something like this. Only probably a titan facility or Khaz Algar that Iridikron tunnels too underground. Expansion concludes with us trying to figure a way to breach the surface of Avaloren.

[Teriz]

Elite Tauren Cheiftan predates all that dragon lore. None of the aspects were even a thing until long after Warcraft's first band was introduced. You like to make these big absolutist statements while always missing a big obvious detail.

Can you create a viable WoW expansion based on a hard rock, heavy metal Tauren and metal music? I don’t see how that’s possible. It would break immersion to unheard of levels.

However, if you think differently, I’d love to hear your ideas for such an expansion.

The latest class only "comes from" that existing lore in a tangential way: Evoker's "prismatic dragons" have nothing to do with "chromatic dragons" and were invented wholesale for this expansion.

They’re both artificial dragons created by black dragons to wield all 5 dragon aspects.

[Nightshade711]

Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)

It’s because of a few things:
The Emerald Dream portal being a big focus in the green dragon storyline leveling (stopping Primalists from getting to it)

There’s the whole thing with the world tree seed being planted in the dream and that datamined cinematic of it starting to grow.

And also, the “emerald dream outdoor” item that was datamined in 10.1

- - - Updated - - -

Can you create a viable WoW expansion based on a hard rock, heavy metal Tauren and metal music? I don’t see how that’s possible. It would break immersion to unheard of levels.

However, if you think differently, I’d love to hear your ideas for such an expansion.


They’re both artificial Dragonkin created by Neltharion to wield all 5 dragon aspects.

They can easily base an expansion around beings like Murmur back in BC.
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Murmur

Murmur is an incredibly powerful elemental born when the Universe was created, about whom little is known. The Shadow Council inhabiting the Shadow Labyrinth summoned it for their nefarious purposes, but seem to be having trouble keeping him under control. Its history is briefly documented in the Codex of Blood, which reveals Murmur is the primordial essence of sound

Bards would fit in perfectly with a “sound” themed
expansion.
Hell, maybe they’d write that beings like Murmur are part of the 7th force that The Jailer is afraid of since we don’t see them anywhere else in the cosmos.

[Teriz]

They can easily base an expansion around beings like Murmur back in BC.
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Murmur

Ersula wasn't talking about Murmur, they were talking about the ETC.

I want to hear a WoW expansion concept based around that character that won't be laughed at.

[Abraxan]

It’s because of a few things:
The Emerald Dream portal being a big focus in the green dragon storyline leveling (stopping Primalists from getting to it)

There’s the whole thing with the world tree seed being planted in the dream and that datamined cinematic of it starting to grow.

And also, the “emerald dream outdoor” item that was datamined in 10.1

- - - Updated - - -



They can easily base an expansion around beings like Murmur back in BC.
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Murmur



Bards would fit in perfectly with a “sound” themed
expansion.
Hell, maybe they’d write that beings like Murmur are part of the 7th force that The Jailer is afraid of since we don’t see them anywhere else in the cosmos.

Wasn't there also an early dev build video or something from DF beta with the new world tree visible in dragon isles? Not confirmation we'd go to the dream necessarily, but seems to support that the immediate story is going to involve the tree and I assume koroleth/the dream.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its presumption and I would be surprised if we didn't go. Not mad, just kinda "Ok, I didn't expect that."


But... some NE stuff need to be developed/addressed. Course that wouldn't be a big deal if that storyline went through DF and 11.0.

[Nymrohd]

Its presumption and I would be surprised if we didn't go. Not mad, just kinda "Ok, I didn't expect that."


But... some NE stuff need to be developed/addressed. Course that wouldn't be a big deal if that storyline went through DF and 11.0.

The general expectation is that 10.2 would involve the Dream so I'd assume something related to NEs will be there.

One thing I'd like to see in DF and there is zero indication of it is a bigger cast for the red flight. The other four flights got a chance to show some of their members even if the screen time is poorly balanced but Reds have Alex and the dwarf and vulpera visage dragons neither of which are important enough to the larger narrative (though Veritastrasz seems like someone who could stick around). After killing Krasus in a book and then killing Calen in a mythic only raid boss, they are short of important NPCs. Plus it is the red flight, shouldn't there be more broodmothers than just Alex? Is she monopolizing all the D?

[Nightshade711]

Ersula wasn't talking about Murmur, they were talking about the ETC.

I want to hear a WoW expansion concept based around that character that won't be laughed at.

The hypothetical Murmur/sound based expansion would be as based around ETC/Bards as Legion was based around Illidan/DHs

[Revamp Man]

And there's you, replying to every single one of them, only to promote your own fanfic class concepts.

but dont you know he totally predicted the super awesome dragon class 100% based on HotS

[huth]

I simply figure it would be a tad too silly and immersion-breaking. To risk circumstantial ad hominem, I figure Teriz is suggesting it precisely because it would make his preferred class look more suitable to the setting by comparison; to be exceptionally fair to him, I think all of his misguided efforts to falsely eliminate other prospects are ultimately superfluous because Tinkers do have strong basis in the lore and a fair chance of being made a class. Unfortunately, much like what happened with the Augmentation specialization, I think some have been made unfairly averse to the idea simply on account of Teriz running it into the ground.

That suggests to me more that you are thoroughly unfamiliar with the Genre. Metal in WoW would be about as out of place as water in the ocean.

[Teriz]

but dont you know he totally predicted the super awesome dragon class 100% based on HotS

I did. But hey, who’s counting?